LTS Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 The advantage for Botterill is that he holds the asset. So, while he's playing a game of don't flinch with every possible suitor, they are all playing the same game against each other. The media will be used to play this out. Just like the Friedman quote above... if 5 (total guess) GM's were in on Kane (and they probably know who each other are) then 4 know that 1 of them is lowering his projection or attempting to make them think that's what is happening. I would love to be a fly on the wall in these calls and conversations that go on to see the "game" being played out. It's absolutely fascinating. Of course all of this is fascinating if you love game theory... which I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 Right, but Botterill will need to supplement the ###### out of free agency if he wants to have a viable playoff roster, particularly among the bottom 6 forwards. And I view making the playoffs next season as an important part of the "development" aspect of the young players currently on the Sabres roster, much in the same way Botterill sees a competitive Amerks roster as important to the overall franchise development. There is currently an awful stench of failure surrounding the Buffalo Sabres organization. It's becoming more and more deeply ingrained with each passing season that gets added to the record-breaking playoff drought. Oh, but not all hope is lost. There is one simple antidote to all that ails us: JOHN TAVARES. :w00t: Don't know that I'd fully agree w/ that. A lot of bottom 6 guys are interchangable throughout the league (most likely including several that are (and will become) Sabres) & tend to look good when playing behind true top 6 talent & tend to look like dog doo doo when being called upon to be more than distant support pieces. Fix the farm (done), fix the top (working on it), & the bottom 6 will take care of itself. IMH expectation, at any rate. The advantage for Botterill is that he holds the asset. So, while he's playing a game of don't flinch with every possible suitor, they are all playing the same game against each other. The media will be used to play this out. Just like the Friedman quote above... if 5 (total guess) GM's were in on Kane (and they probably know who each other are) then 4 know that 1 of them is lowering his projection or attempting to make them think that's what is happening. I would love to be a fly on the wall in these calls and conversations that go on to see the "game" being played out. It's absolutely fascinating. Of course all of this is fascinating if you love game theory... which I do. Abso-friggin'-lutely! :beer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7+6=13 Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 If the goal next season is to put together a roster capable of making the playoffs, then I think we are in a little bit of cap trouble for 2018-19. Pominville ($5 million), Moulson ($5 million), and Bogosian ($6 million) alone will account for 20% of the cap (~$80 million). As apposed to having Ennis at 4.6 Mil instead of Pominville? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 From Friedman on who is looking to add “Pittsburgh,” replied NHL Insider Elliotte Friedman immediately when asked the question during his Friday afternoon appearance on Edmonton’s 630 CHED. “I think Pittsburgh is definitely motivated to add. I don’t think there’s any doubt about that. “I think Nashville, even though they added Fisher, I wouldn’t be surprised if they looked at another forward, a scorer. I mean, they’re all in. All, all, all in. It wouldn’t surprise me if they looked at another guy. “I think the Kings are looking to add a defenseman or a scorer. I think they’re motivated. “San Jose I think is motivated. But the problem is – and I heard they were making a lot of calls when Thornton went down. Doug Wilson wouldn’t talk about it, but what I kind of heard was that they didn’t like what the prices were and they were just like, ‘This is not what we’re willing to do.’ For one thing, they’ve got over $20 million cap room this summer and they’re not screwing around with that unless it’s a cornerstone player. The other thing is I don’t think they want to move their first-rounder, especially not for a rental. So I don’t necessarily think there’s a match for them right now. But they lost in Pittsburgh. They lost in a shootout in Detroit. That’s a dogfight for that race. Sometimes it forces you into a position you don’t want to be in. “The last team I would mention – I’ve got to tell you, a week ago I would have said that Calgary would have waited. Frolik was coming back. Versteeg is supposed to be back right around the trade deadline, maybe a bit later – but they are expecting him to be a player this year. But watching them right now, I could see their GM really thinking about it.” Friedman | High trade prices despite surplus of available assets On the Flames, Friedman added: “The biggest problem is if they wanted to make a move it would have to be someone off their roster, which can be a sideways move. But they’ve got two defense prospects that everybody likes. There’s Andersson who’s playing in AHL Stockton, and their first-rounder – Valimaki – from last year. But I’m not convinced they want to move those guys either. I think they want to hold. “But as you know, you’re sitting there – and I know Peter Chiarelli has taken a lot of heat in your market, but I think history will show the best thing that Peter did was when he really wanted to make a move this year he didn’t do it. And I bet you there were moves there that when we look at it and you’d say, ‘Thank God he didn’t do them.’ “And I think Brad Treliving is kind of right in that zone now too. You’re thinking, you’re thinking, you’re thinking, you’re thinking, and you’re like, ‘I might regret this one in a year or two, so maybe I don’t do it.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tondas Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 We traded two nothings for a something (Scandella) and a nothing (Poms). I'll take it. Good point. Especially since Pommer has only 1 fewer goal and 8 fewer assists than Ennis and Foligno combined this year. And Pommers cap hit is $1,875,000 less than those two. Pretty good deal for the Sabres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 I am starting to think that the return for Kane may not be what some seem to be expecting. All potentially interested teams know that the Sabres made no attempt to re-sign him with an expiring contract. He may be a pure rental player, and he has slumped recently. I am surprised that the Sabres moved him off of Eichel's line. Would have made sense to me to keep Kane there until a trade was consummated so that his numbers would be as strong as possible. I also would have thought the Sabres would have least engaged with Kane's agent about re-signing him whether or not they were serious about it to help with the optics of his situation. I haven’t been a fan of much of anything Botterill has done so far in his approach to Kane. I’m reserving judgment until we see the trade return, though. I was disappointed that Botterill didn't move Bogo , Gorges or Moulson last summer... he seems happy just to ride out their deals. And by "move" I mean incentivize some team to take on their deals by including picks or some B level prospects, maybe a Larsson or Girgensons as well. Sounds to me like they plan on keeping him around. I’m also not a fan of what I’m perceiving to be his timeline. But it’s impossible to know what’s he’s thinking without being inside his head. Don't know that I'd fully agree w/ that. A lot of bottom 6 guys are interchangable throughout the league (most likely including several that are (and will become) Sabres) & tend to look good when playing behind true top 6 talent & tend to look like dog doo doo when being called upon to be more than distant support pieces. Fix the farm (done), fix the top (working on it), & the bottom 6 will take care of itself. IMH expectation, at any rate. Abso-friggin'-lutely! :beer: What has Botterill done so far to work on improving the top 6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 What has Botterill done so far to work on improving the top 6? What was your time line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 What was your time line? It was a serious question. I don’t think he’s had anywhere near enough time to infuse the top 6 with improved talent. I just don’t think we have any evidence necessarily that he’s “working on” doing so. If anything, since by all accounts he’s ruled out Kane remaining a Sabre, the immediate future of the top 6 is taking a step backward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) I haven’t been a fan of much of anything Botterill has done so far in his approach to Kane. I’m reserving judgment until we see the trade return, though. I’m also not a fan of what I’m perceiving to be his timeline. But it’s impossible to know what’s he’s thinking without being inside his head. What has Botterill done so far to work on improving the top 6? To date, he drafted Middlestud. He's also allowed Housley to try to figure out an effective set of conbinations (which, lacking Mittelstadt is still seriously a work in progress). And, shocking very few of us, he' s figured out (about 35 games later than us) that Reinhart is a 2nd line PP specialist winger. (Housley, that is, but Jason is his boss, so there's that.) That lack of progress to date doesn't mean he hasn't been working on it. Some things take time. It also doesn't mean somebody else wouldn't have done better to date. But, he's earned the benefit of the doubt, through the off season that he's on the right track. Re-evaluation comes November 1. Again, the top 6 improving IS a work in progress. Edited February 3, 2018 by Taro T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 It was a serious question. I don’t think he’s had anywhere near enough time to infuse the top 6 with improved talent. I just don’t think we have any evidence necessarily that he’s “working on” doing so. If anything, since by all accounts he’s ruled out Kane remaining a Sabre, the immediate future of the top 6 is taking a step backward. If Kane didn't want to sign here then Botterill has ruled out nothing. He's accepted what a player is willing (or NOT willing) to do. And since Kane has not been playing in the top 6 for a good part of the season and the Sabres were more successful when he wasn't there says that it's not taking a step backward so much as you might believe. In addition, there's been little to no movement of players in the league this season. If there's no ability to move players then there's no potential to improve. Finally, it's been noted that Botterill plays a quiet camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dominator Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 I have no issue with how Botterill has approached this mess of a team so far. Would I like to see a faster turnaround? Of course. But X-GMTM took that mindset and completely stunted the potential growth of this team. So if Botterill wants to play this season out for evaluation purposes, land in the top 5 picks and add another blue chip to the pipeline, so be it. I like the slow play on Kane, as I don't think the trade offers will be any worse 2 weeks from now as they are today. I believe they will either be the same or better returns on Kane. From his last interview with WGR, GMJB acknowledged teams like Colorado when asked about his timeline. He comes from a winning organization, I'm sure he would pounce on an opportunity to be a playoff team next year if he can do it in a sustainable way. Next season will either bring a ton of hope or a lot of anguish, as we know there will be a handful of the Rochester prospects coming up. If they don't show they can hang next season in the NHL, it'll push the timeline back multiple years in my mind. I have faith in Ullmark and Guhle, but we need more than that just to be competitive. I don't know if there is a general point I'm trying to make out of all of this, just some thoughts going through my mind on this brisk Saturday morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) I’m sure there is enough here for a Ava style one year turn around After KO, Jack and Sam, we may need another 10 forwards. Yes ROR, Pommers, Larsson and Z are under contract, but ROR might be part of the problem and the other three don’t add anything unless they play w Jack. You also might need 4 D after Risto Scandella and Guhle plus one goalie to back up Ullmark. That is a tall order for one off season even if some of the Roch forwards like Baptiste and Smith can make the jump, because we still won’t have any goal scoring depth. Edited February 3, 2018 by GASabresIUFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) Good point. Especially since Pommer has only 1 fewer goal and 8 fewer assists than Ennis and Foligno combined this year. And Pommers cap hit is $1,875,000 less than those two. Pretty good deal for the Sabres. Plus, the added bonus that Pommer at least stays healthy. Eventually Ennis will crumble like the sheet of glass he is. I'm glad he's been sort of healthy this season. Though this team could use Foligno's grit. I'd make this trade each and every time of course. We're done with Moulson, Pommer next season and that's at least 11M off the cap. I also like that Botterill has not flinched or made a panic move to tide over a frustrated fanbase. In the long run, handle it slowly and matriculate assets. Edited February 3, 2018 by De Listig Ett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 From McKenzie A couple of random pre-trade deadline thoughts, given the deadline is three weeks Monday: I’ll be keeping an eye on TB and NSH as perhaps the two teams who could/would conceivably make significant moves, given their firm status as legit Cup contenders... In the TSN Coaches Poll last week, those two teams were clearly identified as favourites to contend for Cup, although WPG, VGK and BOS also got some support. Point is, given their recent histories (both losing in a Cup final) and rosters that are heavily constructed to win now... ...I would say the appetite to do everything possible to set themselves up for a run is as high or higher in TB and NSH than anywhere else in the league. Both franchises are extremely well positioned to sacrifice picks/prospects to get immediate help... TB has all of its own draft picks for the next three years; NSH still owns its first-round picks for the next three years and while they have dealt some 2nd and 3rd round picks the Preds are still relatively well positioned in that regard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) Mike Reilly's name is out there. Anything here we could scratch out for nothing? Less of Falk, more of someone young who can push the puck? Edited February 3, 2018 by De Listig Ett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 Wish we had used the pick we used for Beaulieu on him, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) Wish we had used the pick we used for Beaulieu on him, Well personally if his agent was told via Fletcher that they could individually seek out a trade, it cannot be for much. Maybe see if Falk plus a conditional 7th works and go from there. I'm ready to move on from Beaulieu as much as the next. As much as Beaulieu has been garbage, it was still worth the gamble. They Sabres will definitely be able to replenish that on someone who expires at the deadline or elsewhere depending on prices. Edited February 3, 2018 by De Listig Ett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 IF Kane didn't want to sign here then Botterill has ruled out nothing. He's accepted what a player is willing (or NOT willing) to do. And since Kane has not been playing in the top 6 for a good part of the season and the Sabres were more successful when he wasn't there says that it's not taking a step backward so much as you might believe. In addition, there's been little to no movement of players in the league this season. If there's no ability to move players then there's no potential to improve. Finally, it's been noted that Botterill plays a quiet camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 Kypreos says the ask for Pacioretty is a first, a second, a top prospect and a warm roster body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 Kypreos says the ask for Pacioretty is a first, a second, a top prospect and a warm roster body. I think the Sharks could do that. Jumbo Joe has no knees left. They could write of this season and get Pacioretty and be in good shape next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 I think Kanes value is no where near the ask. He is not a smart player and I think Gms know this. I hope we get a late first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 Per Kypreos The Sabres ask for Kane remains high, he feels it should be dropping or at least a Tier Lower than Pacioretty. Chris Johnson spoke with GMs who are sellers and they stated they have not received offers yet from buyers http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/price-pacioretty-remains-high-ahead-trade-deadline/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 Per Kypreos The Sabres ask for Kane remains high, he feels it should be dropping or at least a Tier Lower than Pacioretty. Chris Johnson spoke with GMs who are sellers and they stated they have not received offers yet from buyers http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/price-pacioretty-remains-high-ahead-trade-deadline/ Well, it is a tier lower than Pacioretty according to reports. The link is interesting. It just shows that the market is still swirling around and no one is putting hard offers on the table. I am surprised there has not been at least one "early" deal yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 I think its normal, to many fringe playoff teams, and no one wants to give up a possible top 15 1st round pick in a pretty strong draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 I think Kanes value is no where near the ask. He is not a smart player and I think Gms know this. I hope we get a late first.There's a sucker born everyday so they say. You hear me Treliving, Benning and Wilson. One of you three pukes needs to man up and fall on our grenade :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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