Taro T Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Next year has been coming for most of the lifespan of this franchise. And if Casey is all that, he'll be the center of whatever line he is on anyway, and Sam can continue to be Jack's wing. There is your long game. Yep. IF Mittelstadt is all he's hoped to be, it doesn't make sense to move him to wing while keeping Reinhart at C. And I'd be using O'Reilly as the shutdown C getting essentially the same ice time as Eichel. Having Casey getting to run a Vanek - Roy/Connolly - Afinogenev 3rd line would be a great luxury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Do you just like, hate young people? This is stupid. I missed that you were responding to Liger. It was still stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Good question. I guess if Jack shows he can carry the team like he is supposed to, there is no harm in a rookie 2nd center. If Jack still needs ROR to hold his hand and show him how to carry a team, another young center might be a detriment overall. So I guess, my answer depends on Jack's maturity as a player this season. It would be an awesome problem to have. I didn't speculate he'll be better. I said "if". IF he shows better upside move him. IF he doesn't, keep him at wing. Same as Sam. I think that's a very rational and good response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Why do so many people believe Sam Reinhart is and always will be what he was at 20? Because I haven't seen flashes enough to show otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 This is stupid. It was still stupid. I mean, it seems like you're doing whatever you can to remain pessimistic about Eichel and Reinhart. I'm ready for the two of them to take us to the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) Smart play re: Casey. He's nothing yet. Still don't understand putting the better center at wing. There is no benefit to downgrading center if we are putting one of them at wing. This sort of branches off into a different direction for me - I'm getting frustrated by Jack's lack of ability to find chemistry with anyone, and I think it's as much on his game as it is on our players. The rare games they've gotten together at 5v5 include wins over Philly two years ago, in which ROR hd 2 points and Jack a goal, and the Rangers win later that spring, our first win in MSG in ages. Jack had 2 points I believe, another goal for ROR that he assisted on. The single game I remember them getting together (they might have had 2 but I only clearly remember 1) was in Anaheim, a victory in which they each got a point on the lone goal we scored in regulation. Furthermore, Jack is still trash defensively. So I wouldn't mind the two together, you can call whichever one you want the center or the winger, but I do wonder if we might get more out of Jack at even strength like this, and if that would overcome the fact that the bottom two lines look a little worse (though not worse than they'd be with Sam back at top 6 wing in the first place). Edited October 2, 2017 by Randall Flagg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Yep. IF Mittelstadt is all he's hoped to be, it doesn't make sense to move him to wing while keeping Reinhart at C. And I'd be using O'Reilly as the shutdown C getting essentially the same ice time as Eichel. Having Casey getting to run a Vanek - Roy/Connolly - Afinogenev 3rd line would be a great luxury. Still need enough wingers to pull that off though. I mean, it seems like you're doing whatever you can to remain pessimistic about Eichel and Reinhart. I'm ready for the two of them to take us to the playoffs. I'm more than ready too. I'm just not conceding it is inevitable to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Still need enough wingers to pull that off though. I'm more than ready too. I'm just not conceding it is inevitable to happen. Asplund and Bailey might work. Or maybe Fasching is ready to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Asplund and Bailey might work. Or maybe Fasching is ready to go. After this preseason, whatever optimism I had for Bailey, Baptiste, and Fasching is used up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Still need enough wingers to pull that off though. I'm more than ready too. I'm just not conceding it is inevitable to happen. Whether it be through FA, Nylander & 1 or 2 others growing into the roles, or via trades, I have to believe they'll be able to have enough useful wingers in 2-3 years to pull that off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 This sort of branches off into a different direction for me - I'm getting frustrated by Jack's lack of ability to find chemistry with anyone, and I think it's as much on his game as it is on our players. The rare games they've gotten together at 5v5 include wins over Philly two years ago, in which ROR hd 2 points and Jack a goal, and the Rangers win later that spring, our first win in MSG in ages. Jack had 2 points I believe, another goal for ROR that he assisted on. The single game I remember them getting together (they might have had 2 but I only clearly remember 1) was in Anaheim, a victory in which they each got a point on the lone goal we scored in regulation. Furthermore, Jack is still trash defensively. So I wouldn't mind the two together, you can call whichever one you want the center or the winger, but I do wonder if we might get more out of Jack at even strength like this, and if that would overcome the fact that the bottom two lines look a little worse (though not worse than they'd be with Sam back at top 6 wing in the first place). This has merit. I could concede this. But I probably won't. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 After this preseason, whatever optimism I had for Bailey, Baptiste, and Fasching is used up. This is largely why I've detached completely from A. Nylander, CM etc. I don't explicitly think they're going to be nothing but I have no use investing emotion into any of them anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 After this preseason, whatever optimism I had for Bailey, Baptiste, and Fasching is used up.I feel like you need a hug. I understand the pessimism. Let's see how the year plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 This sort of branches off into a different direction for me - I'm getting frustrated by Jack's lack of ability to find chemistry with anyone, and I think it's as much on his game as it is on our players. The rare games they've gotten together at 5v5 include wins over Philly two years ago, in which ROR hd 2 points and Jack a goal, and the Rangers win later that spring, our first win in MSG in ages. Jack had 2 points I believe, another goal for ROR that he assisted on. The single game I remember them getting together (they might have had 2 but I only clearly remember 1) was in Anaheim, a victory in which they each got a point on the lone goal we scored in regulation. Furthermore, Jack is still trash defensively. So I wouldn't mind the two together, you can call whichever one you want the center or the winger, but I do wonder if we might get more out of Jack at even strength like this, and if that would overcome the fact that the bottom two lines look a little worse (though not worse than they'd be with Sam back at top 6 wing in the first place). Jack is not trash defensively. His problem is consistency. When he wants to ala the TO vs Matthews, he can shut down any of the top Cs in the league. When the puck drops for real we will see if he is committed to doing that consistently. I put little stock in the preseason as I think it was an exercise in self preservation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) I feel like you need a hug. I understand the pessimism. Let's see how the year plays out. I don't need a hug. I need a Sabres prospect to be worth the hype. Someone should make that their signature. that is gat damn poetry right there. I mean, it seems like you're doing whatever you can to remain pessimistic about Eichel and Reinhart. I'm ready for the two of them to take us to the playoffs. I want to respond to this again. Why does my preference to keep Sam at wing indicate pessimism? I'm not down on Sam. I've said many times that I think his future is equivalent to Pat Sharp. that isn't faint praise. My reasons for Sam at wing ar rational, and having nothing to do with pessimism. I think he's our 3rd best center and is likely to remain that way, and I think he is our second best winger. There is no pessimism to that statement when the centers in front of him are ROR and Jack, As for pessimism towards Jack..... yeah, I need him to show me more. I'm not assuming that this is inevitable because, well, we've been sold saviors before. Yawn, Show me. I'll get excited when you show me you are the savior. He needs to push ROR into line behind him. He needs to. I'll get my optimism when that starts to happen. Edited October 2, 2017 by We've Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) Some Reference points in terms of playing style and or draft pedigree to Sam Reinhart @20: Henrik Sedin @20 9/20/29 Patrice Bergeron @20 21/40/61 in the AHL Henrik Zetterberg @20 was still in Sweden. Got 44 points in his NHL rookie year at 22. Ryan O'Reilly @20 13/13/26 Ryan Johansen @20 9/12/21 Johnathan Toews 24/30/54 Alex Galchenyuk 12/18/31 Filip Forsberg 1/4/5 Alexander Barkov 16/20/36 Jonathan Drouin 4/28/32 Mikael Granlund 2/6/8 in his NHL rookie season at 21 Mark Schiefle 0 points in four games Nazem Kadri 17/24/41 in the AHL Kyle Turris 8/12/20 Young players get better. Edited October 2, 2017 by dudacek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 I think calling Sam a winger IS being pessimistic. He's had such little time at center, despite having success in that role in the NHL. (When was that stretch?) It's his natural position and his skillset is so obviously suited for it. Sam eas able to put up good numbers from the wing spot because that's how damn smart he is. O'Reilly is going to be just as good on the wing, as he proved in the past. Reinhart can only reach his full potential if he's a pivot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Still need enough wingers to pull that off though. I'm more than ready too. I'm just not conceding it is inevitable to happen. If Mittelstadt goes to C, it means Reinhart moves to wing likely. Or Mittelstadt plays wing. Either way, if he's all we hope, he is helping solve the wing problem. Kane - O'Reilly - Reinhart Nylander - Eichel - Okposo Girgensons - Mittelstadt - Fasching/Pu/Baptiste/Bailey/Rodrigues Granted I'm counting on Nylander here too, but I like the odds of at least ONE of those potential 3RW guys to pan out. Mittelstadt doesn't completely solve the winger problem, but him and Nylander together would. Two 8th overalls that we need to develop to be as advertised, then we are in business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 If Mittelstadt goes to C, it means Reinhart moves to wing likely. Or Mittelstadt plays wing. Either way, if he's all we hope, he is helping solve the wing problem. Kane - O'Reilly - Reinhart Nylander - Eichel - Okposo Girgensons - Mittelstadt - Fasching/Pu/Baptiste/Bailey/Rodrigues Granted I'm counting on Nylander here too, but I like the odds of at least ONE of those potential 3RW guys to pan out. Mittelstadt doesn't completely solve the winger problem, but him and Nylander together would. Two 8th overalls that we need to develop to be as advertised, then we are in business. Also counting on us re-signing Kane ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Also counting on us re-signing Kane ;) That's definitely a good point. What I'm trying to say though is I'm hoping that we start reaching a critical mass of sorts, where a good top 9 starts to just be inevitable. It'll only get there if guys like Mittelstadt and Nylander pan out. If we allow ourselves to be optimistic for a second, and assume those two DO pan out, a top nine that includes O'Reilly, Reinhart, Nylander, Eichel, Okposo, Mittelstadt, and maybe Kane is bound to be good, no matter who is in which position. That's some serious top of the draft talent. One can hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 If Mittelstadt goes to C, it means Reinhart moves to wing likely. Or Mittelstadt plays wing. Either way, if he's all we hope, he is helping solve the wing problem. Kane - O'Reilly - Reinhart Nylander - Eichel - Okposo Girgensons - Mittelstadt - Fasching/Pu/Baptiste/Bailey/Rodrigues Granted I'm counting on Nylander here too, but I like the odds of at least ONE of those potential 3RW guys to pan out. Mittelstadt doesn't completely solve the winger problem, but him and Nylander together would. Two 8th overalls that we need to develop to be as advertised, then we are in business. ROR - Mittelstadt - Okposo Nylander - Eichel - Griffith Girgensons - Reinhart - Fasching/Pu/Baptiste/Bailey/Rodrigues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 After this preseason, whatever optimism I had for Bailey, Baptiste, and Fasching is used up. I would have said the same thing about Aaron Judge after spring training this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 I don't have the time to jump full throttle in the Sam at C debate but I don't think it's pessimistic saying he is more valuable to this team as a winger than a centre. His smarts are off the chart and his biggest attribute. Put him on the wing and allow him to find the superstars who can finish rather than putting him out there with cast offs/AAAA players and find they don't have the ability to utilize Sam's strengths. I know his skating has improved (relax Liger) but I still really wonder if it's fast enough to play C in a Phil Housley coached system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 I'm more interested in where the this Griffith guy has come from, and why Liger was so high on him all preseason and camp that he was basically a lock for the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 I don't have the time to jump full throttle in the Sam at C debate but I don't think it's pessimistic saying he is more valuable to this team as a winger than a centre. His smarts are off the chart and his biggest attribute. Put him on the wing and allow him to find the superstars who can finish rather than putting him out there with cast offs/AAAA players and find they don't have the ability to utilize Sam's strengths. I know his skating has improved (relax Liger) but I still really wonder if it's fast enough to play C in a Phil Housley coached system. He may be more valuable to THIS TEAM as a wing, but what's better, maximizing value to this team, or maximizing value of the player? The answer is probably how willing you'd be to move Sam (or ROR (I'd say Eichel too, but that's unlikely)). If you maximize Sam's centre capabilities and then trade him for a better RW than Sam is, you're better off, right? Or if Sam and Eichel at Centre and ROR at LW is a better aggregate than ROR and Eichel at Centre and Sam at RW. Give the state of Buffalo's LW, the former may be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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