Weave Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) He's coming. Check out the Mittelstadt thread. In the case of Eichel, Griffith hypothetically wouldn't be a handicap relative to Pominville. At least he's got speed. Sure, ROR has to be saddled with Pouliot. But it's a small sacrifice to make, if we believe someone like Casey is going to be the real deal. For the long game, it's worth getting Sam the proper reps at C with actual support on the wings, if we're looking at Mittelstadt - O'Reilly - Okposo in a season or two. At that point, having 3 balanced lines centered around our 3 prized centers only makes sense. I'm hoping Pouliot isn't so terribly bad that he completely offsets the good that will come from more balanced lines. Next year has been coming for most of the lifespan of this franchise. And if Casey is all that, he'll be the center of whatever line he is on anyway, and Sam can continue to be Jack's wing. There is your long game. Edited October 2, 2017 by We've Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) I wonder he Guhle gets the call up to play. Or maybe Georges plays instead of TennysonHe's a left def and isn't better then Antipin, scandella or beaulieu yet. I'd give him the entire season in the AHL. Edited October 2, 2017 by LGR4GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Next year has been coming for most of the lifespan of this franchise. And if Casey is all that, he'll be the center of whatever line he is on anyway, and Sam can continue to be Jack's wing. There is your long game. Or ROR is Jack's wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Or ROR is Jack's wing. Why are you guys so fixated on Sam at center that you'd move a superior center to wing for it? It doesn't make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 I think he has the same upside as ROR at center and I think ROR on Jack's wing would be unstoppable. Sam is 21. That is the long play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 I think he has the same upside as ROR at center and I think ROR on Jack's wing would be unstoppable. Sam is 21. That is the long play. Sam won't be the player O'Reilly is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Why are you guys so fixated on Sam at center that you'd move a superior center to wing for it? It doesn't make sense to me.Because I believe we'll get the most out of Sam by giving him talented wingers on the second line and we'll get the most of O'Reilly if he's playing wing on either Jack or Sam's line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Sam won't be the player O'Reilly is now. Respectfully, I think it's bizarre how little you want to see Sam continue to get time at C. He hasn't even gotten a single regular season game there yet under this coaching staff. The coaches are going to, rightfully, give him time to develop there. You have to. He was drafted as a center. He may fail there, but he hasn't even been given the chance to fail there yet (by this staff). As soon as he does, everyone will come over to your side, but until then, we might want to put Jack with ROR while still letting Sam develop, without that being a crazy dumb idea. I'm leaning more and more towards your side on the issue overall, but I still need to see it fail before I move on completely. And that might take 5 or 10 or 25 or 41 games, depending on Phil. And if/when Samson becomes a permanent winger, I would like to try him out with ROR before Jack. Next year has been coming for most of the lifespan of this franchise. And if Casey is all that, he'll be the center of whatever line he is on anyway, and Sam can continue to be Jack's wing. There is your long game. Seriously. I like CM the prospect, but I'll get excited about CM the Sabre when he's here impacting NHL games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Sam won't be the player O'Reilly is now.Says who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) Respectfully, I think it's bizarre how little you want to see Sam continue to get time at C. He hasn't even gotten a single regular season game there yet under this coaching staff. The coaches are going to, rightfully, give him time to develop there. You have to. He was drafted as a center. He may fail there, but he hasn't even been given the chance to fail there yet (by this staff). As soon as he does, everyone will come over to your side, but until then, we might want to put Jack with ROR while still letting Sam develop, without that being a crazy dumb idea. I'm leaning more and more towards your side on the issue overall, but I still need to see it fail before I move on completely. And that might take 5 or 10 or 25 or 41 games, depending on Phil. And if/when Samson becomes a permanent winger, I would like to try him out with ROR before Jack. Seriously. I like CM the prospect, but I'll get excited about CM the Sabre when he's here impacting NHL games. He's the 3rd best center on this team. He's not bypassing ROR or Jack. And if Casey is the next coming, Sam will be the 4th best center on this team. Last year he was arguably the 2nd best winger on this team. It's not that I don't want to see Sam as a center, it is that I don't think his value either long term or short term is higher for the team at center. Develop him for where he is most valuable. Edited October 2, 2017 by We've Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 He's the 3rd best center on this team. He's not bypassing ROR or Jack. And if Casey is the next coming, Sam will be the 4th best center on this team. Last year he was arguably the 2nd best winger on this team. It's not that I don't want to see Sam as a center, it is that I don't think his value either long term or short term is higher for the team at center. Develop him for where he is most valuable. You can claim to know that this will be the case but it would be a horrendous idea to not let it play out, exactly like Phil is doing. If Sam was drafted as a winger and played winger his whole life and wants to be an NHL winger, then absolutely. But none of those are the case. This team is not going to be sunk because Sam was at C and not RW for 20 games. Figure out if you have something there. If not, turn him into Sharp. This exact same thing happened in Montreal. Hell, two coaches have done it now, and one of them is very respected around here. Galchenyuk was drafted C, brought up in his first couple years as a winger with fans calling for him to be developed at C. And he even got put there and scored 30G that season, and they moved him back to wing. Fans wanted the coach fired for it, they fired him, and Julien kept him at wing. It won't kill us if Sam takes us through a similar path, even if he doesn't produce as well as Chucky did. Then we'll know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 You can claim to know that this will be the case but it would be a horrendous idea to not let it play out, exactly like Phil is doing. If Sam was drafted as a winger and played winger his whole life and wants to be an NHL winger, then absolutely. But none of those are the case. This team is not going to be sunk because Sam was at C and not RW for 20 games. Figure out if you have something there. If not, turn him into Sharp. It isn't horrendous when we don't have enough wingers for our top 2 centers. And I cannot imagine Sam will be terribly disappointed racking up points on the top 6 as a wing and getting to fill in at center when the injuries happen. If that is enough to discourage him then I would worry. Hell, his next contract will be bigger cashing in Jack's apples than it will be toiling at center with AAAA wingers and Edmonton cast offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Question. If Mittelstadt shows up next year is just awesome at center... then do you move ROR to lw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Question. If Mittelstadt shows up next year is just awesome at center... then do you move ROR to lw? Probably not immediately. Give the kid a season to adjust at wing. Season after? Yup, move ROR to wing if Casey has better potential at C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) It isn't horrendous when we don't have enough wingers for our top 2 centers. And I cannot imagine Sam will be terribly disappointed racking up points on the top 6 as a wing and getting to fill in at center when the injuries happen. If that is enough to discourage him then I would worry. Hell, his next contract will be bigger cashing in Jack's apples than it will be toiling at center with AAAA wingers and Edmonton cast offs. I posted a lineup that I think could help the winger situation: ROR - Jack - xxx xxx - Reinhart - Okposo Kane - Larsson - Pominville Josefson, whatever Have ROR play C in the d-zone and take faceoffs. Give Reinhart some beef. Let Kane drive his line since he's squandering things for Jack right now. See what you have, I'm glad Phil's doing it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Didn't even know Casey was a C. As far as I'm concerned I'm pretending he doesn't exist until I see him here. I'll root for his development as if he were my cousin or something. Edited October 2, 2017 by Randall Flagg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Probably not immediately. Give the kid a season to adjust at wing. Season after? Yup, move ROR to wing if Casey has better potential at C.No I mean, he shows up, they slot him at center and he belongs. What do you do then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Smart play re: Casey. He's nothing yet. Still don't understand putting the better center at wing. There is no benefit to downgrading center if we are putting one of them at wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Probably not immediately. Give the kid a season to adjust at wing. Season after? Yup, move ROR to wing if Casey has better potential at C.Why are you comfortable speculating about Mittelstadt being better than O'Reilly but it's completely out of the question that Reinhart could be? Reinhart scored 20 as a rookie and got over 50 points in his sophomore season. He's proved a boatload more than Mittelstadt has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) Let's look at the man replacing Sam at RW: Did you guys know Seth Griffith scored 53 assists in 57 games to lead the AHL two years ago at age 22 in Providence? Also went 6/4/10 in 30 games with the ruins that year. http://www.torontosun.com/2017/02/03/back-with-the-leafs-seth-griffith-aspires-to-brush-off-in-betweener-tag Edited October 2, 2017 by dudacek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 No I mean, he shows up, they slot him at center and he belongs. What do you do then? Good question. I guess if Jack shows he can carry the team like he is supposed to, there is no harm in a rookie 2nd center. If Jack still needs ROR to hold his hand and show him how to carry a team, another young center might be a detriment overall. So I guess, my answer depends on Jack's maturity as a player this season. It would be an awesome problem to have. Why are you comfortable speculating about Mittelstadt being better than O'Reilly but it's completely out of the question that Reinhart could be? Reinhart scored 20 as a rookie and got over 50 points in his sophomore season. He's proved a boatload more than Mittelstadt has. I didn't speculate he'll be better. I said "if". IF he shows better upside move him. IF he doesn't, keep him at wing. Same as Sam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Good question. I guess if Jack shows he can carry the team like he is supposed to, there is no harm in a rookie 2nd center. If Jack still needs ROR to hold his hand and show him how to carry a team, another young center might be a detriment overall. So I guess, my answer depends on Jack's maturity as a player this season. It would be an awesome problem to have. I didn't speculate he'll be better. I said "if". IF he shows better upside move him. IF he doesn't, keep him at wing. Same as Sam. Do you just like, hate young people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) Good question. I guess if Jack shows he can carry the team like he is supposed to, there is no harm in a rookie 2nd center. If Jack still needs ROR to hold his hand and show him how to carry a team, another young center might be a detriment overall. So I guess, my answer depends on Jack's maturity as a player this season. It would be an awesome problem to have. I didn't speculate he'll be better. I said "if". IF he shows better upside move him. IF he doesn't, keep him at wing. Same as Sam. The future of the team is tied to Jack's maturity this season. It gives us flexibility everywhere else Edited October 2, 2017 by dudacek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 I didn't speculate he'll be better. I said "if". IF he shows better upside move him. IF he doesn't, keep him at wing. Same as Sam. I missed that you were responding to Liger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Why do so many people believe Sam Reinhart is and always will be what he was at 20? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Or,that ROR will be what he was at 26? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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