Trading camp questions #5: How good is Sam Reinhart?

[dudacek]

There is consensus that Sam Reinhart is smart, useful and relatively productive.

There is little consensus on how good he is or how good he can be.

 

He has produced well and the underlying numbers have been good too. But the lack of grit, the lack of flash and the general style of his game has screamed "useful complimentary player." Which is good to have, but not good enough for a 2nd overall pick.

 

Should we be patient? Has he been misused? Is there a lack of maturity or dedication?

Is there a failure on the fans part to appreciate the nuance of his game?

Or is it what we've seen is what we are going to get?

[Weave]

I'd change that characterization to "above average to high end complimentary player".  Jason Pominville, maybe?  I've called him Patrick Sharpe-ish many times.  That's about right.  And it is no slight.  Prime Sharpe was a player that needed to be accounted for by the opposition.

 

Yes, we should be patient, but I think he's already near his ceiling.  And I don't think he's being misused. 

 

Is he good enough for a 2nd overall pick?  In that draft?  Yes.  Some years high end complimentary players are all that is available at the top.  It wasn't a good year to tank.

Edited September 4, 2017 by We've

[Randall Flagg]

Brace yourself We've :lol:

 

I hope you're wrong but there's a decent chance you're not.

[Weave]

Brace yourself We've :lol:

 

I hope you're wrong but there's a decent chance you're not.

 

I'd love for him to prove me wrong.  I'd love for him to be more valuable at center.  But there is no shade in calling him a top 6 utility guy that can play center if needed in a #2 role or play the wing to cement a good scoring line.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

He will be more than fine.  He will be a very good player, especially when the team becomes good again.  It is a slow process.  F the tank!!

[dudacek]

I agree that what We've has said is the most logical conclusion based on what we've seen in the NHL.

I also firmly believe that he is a centre with a skill set that is best utilized at centre.

My opinion is entirely coloured by the player I saw in junior, who played like a prime years Henrik Sedin.

 

We never heard anything publicly, but I wonder if Sam had privately complained about his use under Bylsma.

He was one of those Sabres who definitely mailed in the last month.

 

I like that Botterill is saying "show me" to Sam.

I hope that is a motivational tool, not an indication of lack of belief in the players ability.

 

Sam needs a kick in the pants and he needs to be put into a position to grow and succeed.

It's a huge year for him.

[Lanny]

Useful complimentary player is exactly what he is, which is fine. On a different team he's maybe a 1st/2nd line center who can score 65 points, he won't get that opportunity here and therefore won't reach those totals.

[Mustache of God]

There's been a lot of talk here giving some players a clean slate now that the DDB shackles have been thrown off. This needs to be applied to Sam as well. 

 

I expect Sam to continue to improve. He's never going to be flashy but his presence will be felt.

[dudacek]

Has anyone heard whispers about how Housley plans to use Sam?

[Thorny]

I'd change that characterization to "above average to high end complimentary player".  Jason Pominville, maybe?  I've called him Patrick Sharpe-ish many times.  That's about right.  And it is no slight.  Prime Sharpe was a player that needed to be accounted for by the opposition.

 

Yes, we should be patient, but I think he's already near his ceiling.  And I don't think he's being misused. 

 

Is he good enough for a 2nd overall pick?  In that draft?  Yes.  Some years high end complimentary players are all that is available at the top.  It wasn't a good year to tank.

More than fair.

 

I think his ceiling is considerably higher, though. If given the opportunity at C to realize that potential, I think we'll see it. If not, the above breakdown likely projects accurately, which is perfectly good as far as I am concerned.

[inkman]

I agree that what We've has said is the most logical conclusion based on what we've seen in the NHL.

I also firmly believe that he is a centre with a skill set that is best utilized at centre.

My opinion is entirely coloured by the player I saw in junior, who played like a prime years Henrik Sedin.

 

We never heard anything publicly, but I wonder if Sam had privately complained about his use under Bylsma.

He was one of those Sabres who definitely mailed in the last month.

 

I like that Botterill is saying "show me" to Sam.

I hope that is a motivational tool, not an indication of lack of belief in the players ability.

 

Sam needs a kick in the pants and he needs to be put into a position to grow and succeed.

It's a huge year for him.

If Sam takes it to heart and shows JBot the Sam Shady and scores 30 G 40 A, we'll be thrilled until contract negotiations when he'll be worth 8 mill a year.

[Thorny]

^ astute.

 

Let's get a 55 point season this year, a nice extension, followed by 70 points the next, please.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

^ astute.

 

Let's get a 55 point season this year, a nice extension, followed by 70 points the next, please.

 

Are there not 2 s's in ass tute?

 

:P

[bob_sauve28]

He reminds me a lot of Petrice Bergeron. Steady playmaker and smart.

[North Buffalo]

Are there not 2 s's in ass tute?

 

:P

Depends on which end it comes out of... :)

[nfreeman]

There is consensus that Sam Reinhart is smart, useful and relatively productive.

There is little consensus on how good he is or how good he can be.

 

He has produced well and the underlying numbers have been good too. But the lack of grit, the lack of flash and the general style of his game has screamed "useful complimentary player." Which is good to have, but not good enough for a 2nd overall pick.

 

Should we be patient? Has he been misused? Is there a lack of maturity or dedication?

Is there a failure on the fans part to appreciate the nuance of his game?

Or is it what we've seen is what we are going to get?

I'd change that characterization to "above average to high end complimentary player".  Jason Pominville, maybe?  I've called him Patrick Sharpe-ish many times.  That's about right.  And it is no slight.  Prime Sharpe was a player that needed to be accounted for by the opposition.

 

Yes, we should be patient, but I think he's already near his ceiling.  And I don't think he's being misused. 

 

Is he good enough for a 2nd overall pick?  In that draft?  Yes.  Some years high end complimentary players are all that is available at the top.  It wasn't a good year to tank.

 

I'd love for him to prove me wrong.  I'd love for him to be more valuable at center.  But there is no shade in calling him a top 6 utility guy that can play center if needed in a #2 role or play the wing to cement a good scoring line.

 

I agree that what We've has said is the most logical conclusion based on what we've seen in the NHL.

I also firmly believe that he is a centre with a skill set that is best utilized at centre.

My opinion is entirely coloured by the player I saw in junior, who played like a prime years Henrik Sedin.

 

We never heard anything publicly, but I wonder if Sam had privately complained about his use under Bylsma.

He was one of those Sabres who definitely mailed in the last month.

 

I like that Botterill is saying "show me" to Sam.

I hope that is a motivational tool, not an indication of lack of belief in the players ability.

 

Sam needs a kick in the pants and he needs to be put into a position to grow and succeed.

It's a huge year for him.

 

Now this is just some outstanding hockey talk boys (and btw dudacek this has been an excellent series -- thanks).

 

I like Weave's take but I think Pommer is a more apt comparison than Sharpe, who had/has much more of an edge than Reino.  I do think Reino is a better playmaker than Pommer, although Reino's speed lags behind both of them.

 

I too hope Howie uses him at center, preferably in a 3-scoring-lines structure with Kaner on his wing.

 

 

Useful complimentary player is exactly what he is, which is fine. On a different team he's maybe a 1st/2nd line center who can score 65 points, he won't get that opportunity here and therefore won't reach those totals.

 

I agree with much of this but I don't think Reino is a #1 center on any playoff team.

 

 

Are there not 2 s's in ass tute?

 

:P

 

Well, someone's been into the sauce for lunch on Labor Day!

[pi2000]

He is what he is. What is he? He's what he is. He does what he does, the way he's always done it, the why he's always gonna do it. He's always done what he does.

[Doohickie]

SAMSON REINHART WILL BE FINE.

[Thorny]

The one thing I'll say is that Sam doesn't have to "justify" being a 2nd overall pick. His draft status is in the past and has no bearing on the present or the player he is.

 

I hope the powers that be expect Sam to be a good player for us, and aren't expecting him to achieve some sort of pre-conceived "2nd overall pick standard", wherein if he falls short of that, but still becomes a good player, he's viewed as a disappointment and shipped out.

[Weave]

The one thing I'll say is that Sam doesn't have to "justify" being a 2nd overall pick. His draft status is in the past and has no bearing on the present or the player he is.

 

I hope the powers that be expect Sam to be a good player for us, and aren't expecting him to achieve some sort of pre-conceived "2nd overall pick standard", wherein if he falls short of that, but still becomes a good player, he's viewed as a disappointment and shipped out.

 

There has been so much hype from the fans regarding Sam that I suspect the fans turn on him for being merely very good before a new regime in the front office does. Botteril has no emotional attachment with this kid.

 

Fortunately for Sam, Jack showed up to take on most of the expectations, and that will sheild him to a great extent.

[Weave]

Expanding on that further....

 

If the Sabres don't achieve their goal of becoming a Stanley Cup contender, there will be blame passed around. At some point that blame will be directed at the fruits of the tank for not being the geese laying golden eggs. It won't be the front office laying blame. It will be the fanbase. Sam will be in the crosshairs. But given Jacks presence, Jack will likely recieve most of the finger pointing.

 

However, if this team wins, noone will care where Sam was drafted.

[Thorny]

There has been so much hype from the fans regarding Sam that I suspect the fans turn on him for being merely very good before a new regime in the front office does. Botteril has no emotional attachment with this kid.

Fortunately for Sam, Jack showed up to take on most of the expectations, and that will sheild him to a great extent.

This I hope to be true, definitely. It's a good point, re: the fan base likely being the first to turn, if said turn happens. That said, while I'm not in any position to speak to the mentality of Sabres fans as a whole, on this board there does seem to be a fairly strong understanding of what Sam's game and style brings to the table, for the most part.

 

You're right though. Eichel is the face, and he'll wear it: the pageantry of Sabres triumph or the bitter disappointment of failure.

[dudacek]

I think the fan base has already turned.

Not necessarily to anger, but more to apathy.

 

The mood on here last year was as poor as it's been.

It could be worse this year. We expect compensation for our suffering.

[Thorny]

Oh I don't know.....I'm still really excited that Reinhart is a Sabre. Maybe I'm in the minority.

[erickompositör72]

I think Sam needs to be a center.

 

When we look at our teams' centers, though: Eichel makes painfully apparent Sam's lack of speed, and O'Reilly makes painfully apparent his lack of grit. I don't know how much he can improve these things, but I think that's ok, because...

 

For one, I believe Sam's stick-handling is severely underrated. Secondly, I think we all know he can create plays and scoring chances out of nothing. I think if he was given more opportunities to showcase this (i.e. centering a line with wingers who can finish), he'd show why he went #2 overall.

 

To quote Ted Nolan, "I'm not much of an X's and O's guy" (sorry, Ted), but I feel if Samson has wingers who have speed and grit, to compensate for his lack thereof, that line could be a very threatening force. I could imagine Sam quarterbacking zone entries by making perfect passes to a speedy winger, cycling it in the zone, and setting up plays. Another thing I love about Sam is his knack for knowing just when to get rid of the puck. He hangs on to it just long enough to draw defenders out of position, getting them to bite, and then knows exactly where to pass it to take advantage. If this was our 3rd line, with the match-ups they'd likely get, maybe we could even see 3rd line production like we haven't seen since Vanek played on the 3rd line...