New GM Watch

[3putt]

Lombardi is 58.  He's not going to take a senior czar role, and he's not going to take the GM job with an understanding that he'll move aside for a younger guy in 2 years.

 

If he's hired, he's the GM, period.

It is not a lateral move though.  POHO would be a different level of vision.  I don't  think Shanahan looked at it as a second fiddle position.  

[sabills]

The other option I've heard tossed around is actually having a "younger" guy as POHO and a Lombardi type as GM. Younger guy provides direction overall, has input into what type of team to build over all, and the GM does it. I think you need just the right type of people in both positions to make that work, though.

[darksabre]

The other option I've heard tossed around is actually having a "younger" guy as POHO and a Lombardi type as GM. Younger guy provides direction overall, has input into what type of team to build over all, and the GM does it. I think you need just the right type of people in both positions to make that work, though.

I have a hard time seeing that work. Find me an old guy that wants a young guy giving him directions.  ;)

[Eleven]

Between LA's cap situation and the construction of the USA roster for the World whatever the hell it was that the NHL put on last fall, I think I'm out when it comes to Lombardi.

[sabills]

I have a hard time seeing that work. Find me an old guy that wants a young guy giving him directions.  ;)

Yeah, it was something Marty Biron brought up on the Instigators the day the firings came down and at the time I was like "yeah, that makes some sense", but just then when I typed it out I realised how ridiculous it sounded, haha.

[shrader]

Between LA's cap situation and the construction of the USA roster for the World whatever the hell it was that the NHL put on last fall, I think I'm out when it comes to Lombardi.

 

I can understand the cap stuff, but I have a hard time holding anything olympic related for or against any GM.  That's such a different animal all together.

[Eleven]

I can understand the cap stuff, but I have a hard time holding anything olympic related for or against any GM.  That's such a different animal all together.

 

Start with Thorny's post here and keep going.  That roster was horrible and we all knew it!

 

http://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/24027-world-cup-2016/?p=827750

[shrader]

Start with Thorny's post here and keep going.  That roster was horrible and we all knew it!

 

http://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/24027-world-cup-2016/?p=827750

 

Ahhh, so world cup.  Another thing I'm not going to hold against anyone.  They're building a team using a completely different set of rules than their day to day job and then there's all the politics involved.  So like I said, I'm going to lean much more towards real life evidence like the cap stuff when I figure out whether or not he'd be a good hire.

[LGR4GM]

*glances nervously in Dan Bylsma's direction*

 

Good article on some of Lombardi's problems: http://www.jewelsfromthecrown.com/2017/4/14/15306960/the-decline-of-dean-lombardi-los-angeles-kings

 

These paragraphs I found interesting

What ultimately has been slowly killing the Kings is their lack of depth scoring. That’s been a major issue since Lombardi took over and he’s never really addressed it. He hasn’t kept up with the times. As great of a leader as Trevor Lewis probably is, he scored a career-high 12 goals in 82 goals this year. Career highs for Andy Andreoff and Kyle Clifford are eight and six respectively. That’s not good enough anymore. But Lombardi still thought that grit meant something. It just became too redundant to have the same type of player fill the bottom six.

Oh, and there’s the loyalty problem. Long known for his beliefs in team identity and loyalty, Lombardi had already made several missteps when he inked Brown and Quick to the deals that he did. In 2014, the Kings had been granted a gift. Thanks to the 2012 lockout, general managers were given two years to use two compliance buyouts. These total, get-out-of-jail-free cards allowed management to essentially wipe out any player’s cap hit. Mike Richards had been struggling all season long and had seen his ice time and production drop. By utilizing the CBO, Lombardi could make a difficult business decision while appearing to remain “loyal” to the star center he’d once coveted in Philadelphia. Rather, he chose to visit the Kenora native, exercise with him, look him in the eye, and let the opportunity pass him by.

[Taro T]

My only hope is he legimitely self-assesses and learns from his disastrous last three years.

The cool thing is, he's been through both setting up championship teams & 1 failed attempt at maintaining them on another team's dime. :)

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I like the succession idea.  Let him pull the pieces together, navigate the draft and expansion, get a coach in place and succeed to POHO in a year or two when a new gm is named.  We could benefit from a guy with status league wide when it comes to trades.  

 

And to be fair, all successful cup winning teams eventually pay the price on a bad contract or 2.  Chicago is there now and Pittsburgh will be there soon.  Tampa got really lucky but is still not out of the woods.  Cross that bridge when we come to it.

 

On the plus side, we have decisions to make roster wise and he or any new gm isn't wedded to TMs guys.  I trust Lombardi to make a fair assessment and be able to deal our way out of some of our issues.  

 

In my dream world, I would like to see him hire a Fenton Boteril Brisebois in year 2 and hire Knoblaugh in Rochester to help turn them around.  But as I said only a dream.

 

There is a lot of merit in doing the succession thing, as you have outlined very well.

 

To the bolded ... there is also merit, I think, if Lombardi is hired as PHO and he was to bring in a young, but with some experience (AGM) type immediately as GM.  The two would work closely together initially and then in 2 years Lombardi would change his focus and maybe easy into retirement after, say 5 ... he would be pushing his mid-60s then.

 

Since it has been pointed out that Lombardi is not good at cap management I think they need someone of staff to do that ... VPC (VP Cap).

[Two or less]

I'm not the biggest fan of Lombardi but I think people criticize him too much for the big and heavy mindset. I think many NHL teams, even successful ones in today's league think like that too. For example, the Leafs have a good mix of speed and youth but also employ guys like Matt Martin, Eric Fehr, Hyman and on defense Carrick and Polak to name a few. Carrick and Polak are old school defensmen.

[WildCard]

Dubas anyone? He likey brings Keefe with him

Edited April 24, 2017 by WildCard

[#freejame]

The Kings didn't lack depth scorers, they lacked offensive talent. Carter and Kopitar can't carry the entire load, which is what they're expected to do with Gaborik, Brown, Toffoli, and Pearson as their wingers. There's maybe one top six forward in that group on a playoff team. Two of those guys (Gaborik/Brown) are on terrible contracts. Lombardi has given the franchise the depth players they need to compete, but the bad contracts and play of Gaborik and Brown has prevented them from getting a stronger top six and forced their bottom six up. 

 

Edit: Others have said it, but I'll say it again anyway. If O'Reilly (or whomever) leads us to two cups on their current contract, including the final year of the contract, I'd be fine straddled with his contract until he retires, just like the Kings are. Gaborik has a completely inexcusable contract though. But hey, he's got a ring and the Kings have a second cup so whatever. 

Edited April 24, 2017 by IrwinNelson

[shrader]

I'm not the biggest fan of Lombardi but I think people criticize him too much for the big and heavy mindset. I think many NHL teams, even successful ones in today's league think like that too. For example, the Leafs have a good mix of speed and youth but also employ guys like Matt Martin, Eric Fehr, Hyman and on defense Carrick and Polak to name a few. Carrick and Polak are old school defensmen.

 

It's all so cyclical.  That heavy approach is going to come back at some point.  It always does.

[WildCard]

It's all so cyclical.  That heavy approach is going to come back at some point.  It always does.

Maybe, but even if it does, that's not what we have with Jack. We need to be Pitt

[shrader]

Maybe, but even if it does, that's not what we have with Jack. We need to be Pitt

 

Yeah, I don't mean to imply that it should be here. 

[French Collection]

If we win the Cup, twice? Lombardi can give Delauries a $100 million dollars and I wouldn't care.

Only a complete ignoramus wouldn't have learned something.

DD had "learned a lot" in his time away from head coaching.

 

I'm OK with Lombardi, preferably as President over a Fenton/Botterill/MacIver type GM.

 

As much as I don't like the Leafs, their structure with a lot of good hockey minds around the table is a good idea.

[Guest]

Just looked and Fenton is 57 and his boss David Poile is 67. Has Fenton stayed with the Preds waiting for Poile to kick himself upstairs?

[darksabre]

Take on Dean Lombardi: he's a crap drafter. 

Look at his drafts for LA and San Jose and you see something glaring: He has no problem hitting when he has high first round picks. But he doesn't hit on pretty much anything after that.

Given that the Sabres are not likely to be picking high in the draft after this off-season, I think it would be bad for us to have a GM who almost never drafts well outside of the first round. 

[Brawndo]

If the Sabres adopt the protocol to systematically do the opposite of whatever Bucky and Sully want them to do that would be just fine by me.

This is one of the few times I agreed with Harrington.

[sabills]

This is one of the few times I agreed with Harrington.

 

I do too, but I'm willing to trade off the few times of him being right for the much larger majority of him being wrong.

[Guest]

Take on Dean Lombardi: he's a crap drafter.

 

Look at his drafts for LA and San Jose and you see something glaring: He has no problem hitting when he has high first round picks. But he doesn't hit on pretty much anything after that.

 

Given that the Sabres are not likely to be picking high in the draft after this off-season, I think it would be bad for us to have a GM who almost never drafts well outside of the first round.

I'm going to disagree. The guy averaged 1 guy a year making the NHL after the 3rd rd in his 8 years in SJ, including Ehrhoff and Pavelski. His record in LA isn't as good so far, but many of these kids are still developing. He also moved many parts picks to try to win another Cup. Still he found Alec Martinez in the 4th Colin Miller in the 5th and Jordan Nolan in the 7th. Also he drafted Fasching in the 4th.

[darksabre]

I'm going to disagree. The guy averaged 1 guy a year making the NHL after the 3rd rd in his 8 years in SJ, including Ehrhoff and Pavelski. His record in LA isn't as good so far, but many of these kids are still developing. He also moved many parts picks to try to win another Cup. Still he found Alec Martinez in the 4th Colin Miller in the 5th and Jordan Nolan in the 7th. Also he drafted Fasching in the 4th.

Lombardi didn't draft Pavelski.

 

And I would argue that most of the guys in those late rounds that made the NHL weren't particularly relevant. Simply making the NHL isn't really indicative of anything.

[WildCard]

Lombardi didn't draft Pavelski.

 

And I would argue that most of the guys in those late rounds that made the NHL weren't particularly relevant. Simply making the NHL isn't really indicative of anything.

Agreed