DLDT: Draft Lottery Discussion Thread, 4-30-2016, 8:00pm est

[inkman]

Sometimes, I know that I can stop reading at the first word.

Hugs 11

[JJFIVEOH]

Your trying to sell the game to the US market. Sorry call me crazy but hockey is 4th or 5th of the major sports in the US. How many times did NBC or CSNBC show McDavid? The game will always sell in Canada but in some of these US cities like Arizona, Carolina and even Florida before Jagr got their these are struggling franchises. Could you imagine what a player like McDavid would have done for Arizona. Ticket sales up and they would have more prime time games for them but he goes to Edmonton and has zero games on prime television for the US market. That's bad for the league in my opinion. Even if Toronto didn't win the lottery they would still sell out to watch that crap team. Geez Shanahan works for the NHL and then takes president of a struggling original 6 team, they steal a coach right from under us and then look #1 overall pick. How ironic.

 

How is that ironic?

[ubkev]

I blame Alanis Morissette. She's got all the kids using irony when they mean coincidence. ;) :p

[WildCard]

I think their defense is weak. Marner and Nylander don't have size and our forwards are fast and talented enough to keep up with them. Matthews has to beat ROR not jack each night, so good luck. Their gt is bad and their defense has issues. Matthews doesn't make them better than Buffalo. Sam and Jack will be fine.

Our defense is weak. Is their's worse? Possibly. But if so, not by much.

 

I'm not so sure Matthews will be their starting center. Shanahan and Babcock, back in Detroit, didn't throw rookies into that spot. Did they have talent such as Matthews coming out like he is? No. But with Kadri there, and a new contract, Matthews will have Jack's role next season IMO. 

 

Our goaltenders have issues. Anderson, Gibson, Allen, Johnson...all goalies potentially on the market. Finding a goalie is the least of their worries

 

Appears they have some good/great d-prospects and bottom 6 talent to fill in an already dynamic forward group too

 

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/teams/toronto_maple_leafs/

 

 

They will be good, very good. Will they be better than us? I don't know. I trust GMTM to make better moves than Lou and Shannahan. But their rebuild is right where ours is, minus the year of development Marner and Matthews will have to go through. In that time, it's pretty wide open that they can and likely will make moves such as a ROR or Lehner to fill their other gaps. I hate the Leafs as much as anyone else, but I don't believe it's correct to say that they aren't right where we are. 

 

Because they have their franchise guy? Sorta the same reason you don't want Stamkos?

 

For me it's that playing with Matthews is going to be more attractive to Stamkos.

Good players want to play with other good players.

 

 

Guess I gotta start learning more now about Jake Bean and Charlie McAvoy

They filled their need with Matthews, they will be less desperate to throw money at Stamkos now that are of their chips are set IMO. Sure, playing with Matthews is appealing, but so is playing with Johnson and Kucherov. 

Allow me to vent.

 

I'm ###### sick of literally everything going perfectly for Toronto in their rebuild. We suffer through two full years of the worst hockey imaginable, lose both lotteries, and lose out on the best coach in the league at the 11th hour. They get the best coach, only have to endure one true tank year, win the lottery with their 20% chance, and their other top-5 picks look like studs, all while being praised for the "perfect rebuild" and having the entire hockey media establishment of Canada fawning over them. Then they have the audacity up there to not even talk about Eichel for the Calder, who 100% should be a finalist. And their fans continue to think they're the center of the hockey universe even though even though they haven't won anything since before the Sabres even existed.

 

F the Toronto Maple Leafs.

F their fans.

F their media lapdogs.

F Mike Babcock.

F Auston Matthews. I hope he busts. I want Eichel to score a hat trick every single game against them while powering through the finesse prima dona afraid to go to college.

 

If I were rich, I'd buy out the ACC every single time Buffalo played up there and personally bus up 20,000 Sabres fans.

 

I didn't want to pay Stamkos. I really didn't. But now? F it, let's get him just so Toronto doesn't. And if he goes to Toronto? F him and I hope the blood clots end his career. F 'em all.

 

The most insufferable fan base in the universe deserves misery. Let them think they're good, and let's knock their ###### out of the playoffs in the first round every single year. Have fun winning with a bunch of offensive specialists who don't know they have a blue line to play within. F it. F 'em. Bring it.

 

If Benning wants one of the defensemen, then I don't want whichever one he takes anyway. Because everything he does is wrong.

:beer:  :beer:

good goalies aren't a dime a dozen, the problem with Toronto, it seems like its a graveyard for goalies. Reimer has looked better in SJ, and Bernier has gotten worse since getting to TO. Talk is they will try to get Reimer back as a FA. A couple FA defence men and they could be better much sooner

Good goalies are a dime a dozen. Elite goalies are not

Players want to play with good players. Players want to go where they think they can win.

Matthews improves Toronto's pitch in both categories.

 

Murray marches to his own drum and I will not be surprised if he picks a player at 8 some people will consider a reach.

I just pulled Bean as some one who might fit that profile.

I get the idea, but I just don't think it applies to picks like we think it does. McDavid? Yes. Eichel after a year? Seems so. But I don't remember anyone lining up to play with Hall, RNH, or even Ovechkin when they were fresh out. I don't think Stamkos is really all that lured by the pitch,

 

"Hey, we have a really really good prospect, #1 overall, and you can play with him."

 

"What if he flames out?"

 

"He won't"

 

"But, what if he does?"

 

"....I mean, he just won't."

 

 

This isn't McDavid, or Crosby, this is Matthews. Stamkos wants to win now and the allure of playing with a #1 overall pick isn't really all that alluring IMO. He has proven talent, line mates, and success in Tampa. What other motivation for an increase in production could he ask for? I get that Toronto doesn't look like a tire fire at this point, and that helps their pitch, but it would be the money that brings him there, or his hometown, and I don't see why they would be more likely to spend it now after getting Matthews. A talent that, if he is this highly regarded, shouldn't even necessitate Stamkos in the first place. 

Jeez, people.

 

I hate the Leafs as much as anyone, but get over it.  This doesn't undo any of the great strides we have made the last two years as an organization.  Take a deep breath, watch the Caps/Pens game, and get some sleep.

 

Besides, Matthews is a coke fiend.

A good point

Edited May 1, 2016 by WildCard

[SwampD]

This thread was fun. I actually fell asleep (passed out?) in the commercial break before the 3-2-1 picks.

 

 

No meltdown here. I'm breathing fire at Toronto, not freaking out about where we are. I still like our core forwards more than theirs, and eagerly await stomping Leaf fan dreams on a yearly basis. Just the whole way the qualitative aspect has played out has me fired up.

Would you say that Toronto is just clutch?

[Claude_Verret]

Outcome didn't matter to me but all the jinxy mcjinxertons got exactly what you deserved. All this "I know" "we're destined" crap. It's like you haven't been buffalo fans for very long or something. We are lucky we aren't picking 11th with all the bad juju going around.

Believing in jinxes and bad juju is pretty much the same as believing we were destined to beat the lottery odds.

[That Aud Smell]

Post of the year.

A leading contender.

 

I felt something in my heart while reading that post -- I think it was love, or something like it.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

The fix definitely was in, as they say.

 

At least it wasn't Edmonton, yet again.

[LGR4GM]

I have the impression that some think Toronto can pick up a ROR. I can't think of more that a handful of guys I would classify as ROR like. I think he's one piece they simple can't get. ROR Eichel is better than Matthews kadri.

 

Also I'm looking forward to shoving a puck down those smug Toronto fans throats.

Edited May 1, 2016 by LGR4GM

[That Aud Smell]

Good on ya, Liger.

 

Some of the most fun I've ever had as a Sabres fan was back when the Sabres and Leafs were both playoff teams (think 1999 as a high point).

 

This should end up being fun. There's risk of awfulness and heart break, but that's sports and fandom for ye.

[LGR4GM]

Good on ya, Liger.

 

Some of the most fun I've ever had as a Sabres fan was back when the Sabres and Leafs were both playoff teams (think 1999 as a high point).

 

This should end up being fun. There's risk of awfulness and heart break, but that's sports and fandom for ye.

I just don't understand why last year ppl were okay with Toronto getting McDavid because it would be a fun rivalry but this year they get Matthews and everyone loses their minds. 

[SwampD]

If I were a Leaves fan right now, I would be smug as hell, too. Their "tank" was better than ours, and they ended up with the #1 pick. What's not to be smug about?

 

It also doesn't mean anything until either team starts winning.

[Claude_Verret]

No it wasn't better than ours. Unless you think Matthews/Marner > Reinhart/Eichel. They were certainly handsomely rewarded as you should be for a successful tank, but I like our results better.

[Claude_Verret]

On a pure value of pick basis the Leafs were punished by only committing to a season and a half tank, and thus ended up with two of the top five forwards in consecutive drafts.

 

By committing to two total tanks we were rewarded with two of the top three forwards in consecutive drafts.

 

On one level I love the fact that the Leafs won. This whole nonsense of dicking with the lottery rules was supposed to discourage tanking. Yeah, good luck with that NHL.

[SwampD]

No it wasn't better than ours. Unless you think Matthews/Marner > Reinhart/Eichel. They were certainly handsomely rewarded as you should be for a successful tank, but I like our results better.

I'm not comparing what either team was rewarded for sucking. I'm just saying that their act of sucking was way less offensive than our act of sucking. By a lot.

[TrueBlueGED]

Of the core pieces:

Risto > Rielly

Eichel > Matthews

Reinhart > Nylander

O'Reilly > Marner

 

Subject to change, of course, but I like our group more both now and going forward.

Where it gets interesting is the secondary pieces, which I think you could argue favors them. Gardiner/Kadri/JVR vs. Bogo/Larsson-Girgensons/Kane.

I'm not comparing what either team was rewarded for sucking. I'm just saying that their act of sucking was way less offensive than our act of sucking. By a lot.

Complete and utter nonsense.

[SwampD]

Of the core pieces:

Risto > Rielly

Eichel > Matthews

Reinhart > Nylander

O'Reilly > Marner

 

Subject to change, of course, but I like our group more both now and going forward.

Where it gets interesting is the secondary pieces, which I think you could argue favors them. Gardiner/Kadri/JVR vs. Bogo/Larsson-Girgensons/Kane.

 

Complete and utter nonsense.

Says the guy wishing for blood clots to end someone's career.

[TrueBlueGED]

Says the guy wishing for blood clots to end someone's career.

You might be the only person on the board who took that literally.

[Derrico]

Of the core pieces:

Risto > Rielly

Eichel > Matthews

Reinhart > Nylander

O'Reilly > Marner

Subject to change, of course, but I like our group more both now and going forward.

Where it gets interesting is the secondary pieces, which I think you could argue favors them. Gardiner/Kadri/JVR vs. Bogo/Larsson-Girgensons/Kane.

 

Complete and utter nonsense.

Was just going to do this type of analysis.

 

Here are the teams last 5 draft picks (compared vs talent and not draft year)

 

Mathews, Eichel

Marner, Reinhart

Gauthier, Girgensons

Reilly, Risto

Nylander, 8th pick (somewhat decent chance it's Nylanders brother)

 

Their drafted core is very similar to ours imo. They are a Kane/ROR trade and Eichel/Reinhart development year behind us.

[PASabreFan]

Hugs 11

It's not clear whether you're hugging Eleven or offering hugs.

 

Anyway, no hugs for Eleven from me. He needed to read two words, not one. (Not to mention it's a snobby opinion to think that an early typo makes the rest of the post unworthy of reading.)

[SwampD]

You might be the only person on the board who took that literally.

Regardless, we traded our core away at the trade deadline, then sucked, historically so, for two full seasons. Two plus seasons of suckage.

 

Toronto traded away their main pieces before and during this season. It wasn't one and a half years like someone said upthread. It was one season.

 

 

And if I need to prove my point even more that our sucking was way more offensive than theirs, I leave you with this.

 

Pat Kaleta at center.

 

 

[/drops mic]

[Claude_Verret]

Regardless, we traded our core away at the trade deadline, then sucked, historically so, for two full seasons. Two plus seasons of suckage.

 

Toronto traded away their main pieces before and during this season. It wasn't one and a half years like someone said upthread. It was one season.

 

 

And if I need to prove my point even more that our sucking was way more offensive than theirs, I leave you with this.

 

Pat Kaleta at center.

 

 

[/drops mic]

If you don't think they tried their best to run to the bottom last season I don't know what to tell you.

 

Still you are correct, there is no such thing as a half season tank. Tanking is a full season, full commitment proposition. And we did it better than anyone.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Claude_Verret

[TrueBlueGED]

Regardless, we traded our core away at the trade deadline, then sucked, historically so, for two full seasons. Two plus seasons of suckage.

 

Toronto traded away their main pieces before and during this season. It wasn't one and a half years like someone said upthread. It was one season.

 

 

And if I need to prove my point even more that our sucking was way more offensive than theirs, I leave you with this.

 

Pat Kaleta at center.

 

 

[/drops mic]

Wasn't one and a half years? You should probably re-check what they did last season.

[GoPre]

Regardless, we traded our core away at the trade deadline, then sucked, historically so, for two full seasons. Two plus seasons of suckage.

 

Toronto traded away their main pieces before and during this season. It wasn't one and a half years like someone said upthread. It was one season.

 

 

And if I need to prove my point even more that our sucking was way more offensive than theirs, I leave you with this.

 

Pat Kaleta at center.

 

 

[/drops mic]

There wasn't a mad rush for a player like McDavid this year.

[Derrico]

Regardless, we traded our core away at the trade deadline, then sucked, historically so, for two full seasons. Two plus seasons of suckage.

 

Toronto traded away their main pieces before and during this season. It wasn't one and a half years like someone said upthread. It was one season.

 

 

And if I need to prove my point even more that our sucking was way more offensive than theirs, I leave you with this.

 

Pat Kaleta at center.

 

I know our hockey was so bad it was unwatchable for two years but....the leafs have made the playoffs (and lost in the first round) exactly one time since 2004. I hate their fan base but let's not pretend like their fan base hasn't suffered over the last 12 years.

 

 

[/drops mic]

The leafs have made the playoffs once (and lost in the first round) since 2004. I hate their fan base but they've suffered as much or more than us. Edited May 1, 2016 by Derrico