Sabres Fan in NS Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Links for these? I've been wondering who is buying that oil. And I never considered that there might be other materials being exported by ISIS. Sorry, no links. Turkey is buying ISIS oil and other stuff, as our friend posted. Now I'm confused. I thought they were conducting terror attacks because of our ideologies (Western ideologies that is), yet they promise their recruits drugs, booze, and the freedom of sex? Yup. I won't address your statement concerning the terror attacks right now. I need to get back to class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 It's my understanding that in their apocalyptic view of the world, the end justifies the means. Anything that hastens their goals is considered okay for them to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Correct. This is an incredibly dangerous statement to be making. It leaves no room for moderating forces. It leaves no room for a change in course. It leaves little room for pragmatism. It is also a near direct translation of a Hermann Goering quote. Edited November 23, 2015 by Whiskey Bottle of Emotion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 This is an incredibly dangerous statement to be making. It leaves no room for moderating forces. It leaves no room for a change in course. It leaves little room for pragmatism. It is also a near direct translation of a Hermann Goering quote. That's exactly what Hermann said. Scarry times, indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 This is an incredibly dangerous statement to be making. It leaves no room for moderating forces. It leaves no room for a change in course. It leaves little room for pragmatism. It is also a near direct translation of a Hermann Goering quote. Sigh. And the moral equivalence train rolls merrily along. Tell me: do you think militant Islam wants to coexist peacefully with the rest of the world? Did you not post earlier in this very thread that military action is necessary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Sigh. And the moral equivalence train rolls merrily along. Tell me: do you think militant Islam wants to coexist peacefully with the rest of the world? Did you not post earlier in this very thread that military action is necessary? I think military action will be necessary to ensure the expansion of secular liberal pluralism throughout humanity. I don't think that erring on the side of peace will result in the dire consequences you declare. I think there is room for a voice that says, "violence will not solve violence". I think there is a value in telling our soldiers that there are real human beings over there, not just bands of monsters. I think more Americans will die each year for the next 10 years if we invade Syria, than if we don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Sigh. This is obnoxi... I mean... Uh, haha! Good one, dad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeygirl Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 While on the topic of politics, just thought I'd post a shot of pg. 211 of Zbigniew Brzezinski's book The Grand Chessboard from 1997. We should all be aware of what the minds in high places have written because they believe we are incapable of thinking on a macro level as they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 This is obnoxi... I mean... Uh, haha! Good one, dad. Well, I thought a sigh was a pretty mild response to a "Gotcha! You talk just like a Nazi!" series of posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Well, I thought a sigh was a pretty mild response to a "Gotcha! You talk just like a Nazi!" series of posts. Freeman's law > Godwin's Law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Well, I thought a sigh was a pretty mild response to a "Gotcha! You talk just like a Nazi!" series of posts. I went to lengths to explain the reasoning behind the thought. The Nazi reference was just bonus points. You sound exactly like his explanation of how democracies can control the will of the people through fear. Your position is hardly out of mainstream, but deserves due dilligence, and I don't think that silencing the liberals is the way to find the best final solution to this problem. (That will be the last one, I promise.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 This is obnoxi... I mean... Uh, haha! Good one, dad. That's not snarky at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BagBoy Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Well, I thought a sigh was a pretty mild response to a "Gotcha! You talk just like a Nazi!" series of posts.This reminds me of the Cam Newton celebration "controversy". His response was 'if you don't want me to celebrate, don't let me score.' Well, if you don't want the GOP to repeatedly be "victims" of 'Gotcha', then tell them to stop doing and saying all the dumb things that make it unavoidable for the media to call out, no matter how liberally biased you think the media is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I went to lengths to explain the reasoning behind the thought. The Nazi reference was just bonus points. You sound exactly like his explanation of how democracies can control the will of the people through fear. Your position is hardly out of mainstream, but deserves due dilligence, and I don't think that silencing the liberals is the way to find the best final solution to this problem. (That will be the last one, I promise.) Who said anything about "silencing the liberals?" Does disagreement with moral equivalence or arguing that pacifism in the face of violent fascism will end up costing more blood and treasure constitute silencing anyone? Of course a decision to commence a military engagement -- and, critically, maintain it for generations -- deserves due diligence. Has anyone said otherwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I went to lengths to explain the reasoning behind the thought. The Nazi reference was just bonus points. You sound exactly like his explanation of how democracies can control the will of the people through fear. Your position is hardly out of mainstream, but deserves due dilligence, and I don't think that silencing the liberals is the way to find the best final solution to this problem. (That will be the last one, I promise.) What about the soft-headed liberals? Can we at least silence those bozos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 What about the soft-headed liberals? Can we at least silence those bozos? The bleeding heart ones too. Don't forget them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Who said anything about "silencing the liberals?" Does disagreement with moral equivalence or arguing that pacifism in the face of violent fascism will end up costing more blood and treasure constitute silencing anyone? Of course a decision to commence a military engagement -- and, critically, maintain it for generations -- deserves due diligence. Has anyone said otherwise? No, you have not, nor has anyone in this conversation. I may have fallen victim to a straw man when I read goering's words as typed by you. Obviously, your point, while reminiscent of a Nazi Leader in Nuremberg, is not congruent with his philosophy. So I change my challenge. If you're willing to engage for a bit, with a promise that we both make the assumption that the other is coming from a position of best intentions, i'd like to walk through Just War Theory, and see if we meet the criteria. My intuition is that we might. Edited November 23, 2015 by Whiskey Bottle of Emotion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 The bleeding heart ones too. Don't forget them. And like it or not, moral equivalence absolutely has a place in this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) I went to lengths to explain the reasoning behind the thought. The Nazi reference was just bonus points. You sound exactly like his explanation of how democracies can control the will of the people through fear. Your position is hardly out of mainstream, but deserves due dilligence, and I don't think that silencing the liberals is the way to find the best final solution to this problem. (That will be the last one, I promise.) Let me get this right: you are proposing a final solution? Of course a decision to commence a military engagement -- and, critically, maintain it for generations -- deserves due diligence. Has anyone said otherwise? Well why didn't you say so? Yes, we should commence a military engagement in the Middle East and maintain it for generations. What a novel idea! Why haven't we tried this?! On top of bombing ###### the old fashioned way, maybe we could use those fancy new drones. And beyond destroying things and people, we could try to win hearts and minds, train the good guys to fight the bad guys, occupy Holy Lands (that would tick them off) and even, behind the scenes, overthrow democratically elected leaders and put our own henchmen in power. (The latter would be risky, though.) It might take 70-80 years and cost trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives, but when it's finally all over, we'll have licked the problem. It'll be well worth it. Like the French president said: THIS MEANS WAR! Edited November 23, 2015 by pASabreFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 In lieu of military action I suppose western nations are expected to simply be patient and learn to accept the the terrorist attack hits as the new normal. Patience people, we're going to win hearts and minds if we stop killing bad guys...someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) I have fun and learn here. I've come to "know" some of you. I'm sad, though. Comparing nfreeman's comment to a Nazi's wasn't accurate. I'll say only "intent" and "ends". That will be persuasive or not. If the comparison was for bonus points, it was gratuitous. If you compare someone's comments to those of a Nazi gratuitously, you're being mean. Edited November 24, 2015 by N'eo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 So, do you favor a religious test to enter the country? Yes.. Can you spell religious? If so, come on in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Links for these? I've been wondering who is buying that oil. And I never considered that there might be other materials being exported by ISIS. Irony of ironies is that Assad is actually buying most of the oil from ISIS. That's right, he's buying the very oil hijacked by his enemy. Only in the Middle East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 In lieu of military action I suppose western nations are expected to simply be patient and learn to accept the the terrorist attack hits as the new normal. Patience people, we're going to win hearts and minds if we stop killing bad guys...someday. Well, at the very least, I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume we can't stop every potential terrorist attack regardless of the actions we take. We're going to get hit again, the only question is when, where, and how much it hurts. I have fun and learn here. I've come to "know" some of you. I'm sad, though. Comparing nfreeman's comment to a Nazi's wasn't accurate. I'll say only "intent" and "ends". That will be persuasive or not. If the comparison was for bonus points, it was gratuitous. If you compare someone's comments to those of a Nazi gratuitously, you're being mean. Unless that person is Donald Trump ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Turkey shoots down Russian jet. This could get interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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