Eleven Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Thorny, if the Sabres don't make the playoffs NEXT year, expect firings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Thorny, if the Sabres don't make the playoffs NEXT year, expect firings. Definitely. I don't expect they'll need 'em. Sabres get in in '17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Thorny, if the Sabres don't make the playoffs NEXT year, expect firings. Absolutely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 I think there's no way this team is playoffs or bust next year. At least not for Bylsma and Murray. And I think that would be a mistake if they were to go that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 I think there's no way this team is playoffs or bust next year. At least not for Bylsma and Murray. And I think that would be a mistake if they were to go that route. Where do you set the line?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) Where do you set the line?! Two more years. It's three years unless you absolutely know otherwise. I'm not counting Murray's first year and a half because the intention was to be bad. Three years from the start of this season. Edited January 4, 2016 by Hoss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Two more years. It's three years unless you absolutely know otherwise. I'm not counting Murray's first year and a half because the intention was to be bad. Three years from the start of this season. Wow, you are patient. Absolutely not for me. They should not be this bad this year, and if they're not in the playoffs next year, heads should roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 I think there's no way this team is playoffs or bust next year. At least not for Bylsma and Murray. And I think that would be a mistake if they were to go that route. If there are a TON of extenuating circumstances such as injuries, it won't be. If they are underperforming, TM probably will survive; but I'd put it at least even money that DB would be gone & whether he's punted or not I expect he should be if they are in that situation. That stated, I firmly believe this team will be in the playoffs and not due to selling part of the future at next year's deadline either. Remember, DB was not the 1st choice & there will be good candidates available if this team is not where management expects it to be. And though I am in the minority here, I still expect them to make a run in the 2nd 1/2 of the season. If they don't (& they don't win Matthews) I'd expect them to both draft another D at their 1st pick & make a trade for or sign a #3-ish D-man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Wow, you are patient. Absolutely not for me. They should not be this bad this year, and if they're not in the playoffs next year, heads should roll. Totes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 It also depends on what happens in the offseason, innit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Innit? Wow, you are patient. Absolutely not for me. They should not be this bad this year, and if they're not in the playoffs next year, heads should roll. Absolutely. I expected them to be bad this year, I expected them to miss the playoffs. I didn't expect them to lose because they routinely come out so flat, I expected the losses to happen because of mistakes. There have been too many changes to help speed up the process for this to be a lengthy ordeal. Thorny, I liked you analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) It looks like I may be in the minority with my thoughts, and that's fair enough. We haven't made the playoffs since '11 and it's crap. I just don't want to assume a playoffs or bust mentality for next season, as I really do think going from last two years running, to the playoffs, can potentially take some time. I think I fall more in line with Hoss's thoughts on the matter, I would expect playoffs by the third season. This year seems very unlikely. Next year seems like our first real chance at it, so our first honest-to-goodness fired bullet hitting the mark may not come to fruition. Our team is very young, so I say three seasons because with this year potentially being a write-off for making the playoffs, and the (obviously variable-excluding) odds of making the playoffs 50/50, I would expect to make it within two seasons after this one, that is to say by season three, with the talent we are assembling. I'd like to stress though that this isn't me being overly patient, this is more me trying to look at things from a distance and trying to keep my expectations reasonable. We could very well make the playoffs next season, and that is what I am hoping for. Whereas missing the playoffs this year would be only slightly disappointing as making it didn't seem very likely, missing next year would be a definite disappointment. Just not drawing a firm line of expectation there. I do expect to at least be contending for the playoffs next season. To be honest, I was hoping for them this year, and still think there is a slight possibility of that happening. Whether heads roll if we miss the playoffs next year, I don't think that would happen, but I could very well be wrong. Edited January 4, 2016 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kishoph Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Run? Ennis saw Ovechkin coming and turned his back at the last minute expecting Ovechkin to stop. Ennis got all he deserved on that play. It's the kind of crap that's been discussed elsewhere on the checking from behind and the propensity of players to put themselves in harms way now because they expect a player will not hit them. Ennis should have prepared for the hit and he would have come out of it okay. So Ennis see's a hard hitting player that is half a foot taller than him and outweighs him by nearly 80 pounds, barreling down on him and he turns his back, so he deserves to be injured ? Did that warrant Ovechkin, leaving his feet to deliver the hit, up high ? How do you prepare for a hit from someone that much bigger than you ? Puff out your chest and stick out your jaw and take it like a man ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 So Ennis see's a hard hitting player that is half a foot taller than him and outweighs him by nearly 80 pounds, barreling down on him and he turns his back, so he deserves to be injured ? Did that warrant Ovechkin, leaving his feet to deliver the hit, up high ? How do you prepare for a hit from someone that much bigger than you ? Puff out your chest and stick out your jaw and take it like a man ? He deserves to get hit hard and the fact that it resulted in an injury is chance. It's a hockey game and most of the players in the league are bigger than he is. He's done a good job of protecting himself and avoiding hits but they are going to happen. He probably could have taken the hit more with his shoulder by not turning at the last second. Perhaps he expected Ovechkin to hit the boards in an attempt to just cut him off from getting the puck out of the zone. I don't know, but he pushes the puck with his stick and turns and takes a full hit in the back. Leaving his feet? You clearly need to review the evidence before you make claims. He never left his feet. If the Sabres do not make the playoffs next year it better be because there are a handful teams that were so bad that the 8th place record was ridiculously good. They need to be there. I might accept missing it by 1 point on the last day of the season. Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Harken back to the halcyon days of late October early November when the board was afire with playoff matchup talk. The difference is the goaltending has regressed to the mean and the speed of Pysyk supporting on the third pair is missing. We still lack finishers on the wing. I was not a fan of the hire, but I see some signs that the "structure" he is trying to install will bear fruit. Eichel is improving in his own zone because his responsibilities are pretty consistent. When he was struggling offensively he could still focus on those and keep his confidence up. Reinhart has been given a fairly conservative but well established role and he is excelling. Risto is becoming more of the O threat we hoped because the go no go decision points are more simple and apparent. The pk is much more disciplined. The beer league structure of last year is gone. I still think we need some different players to be more competitive in the long haul but I will give a first year coach with a very young team some time. I see development and that is all I hoped for this season. Very good post, agree 100% Me too. There's a possibility that the transition from Ron "I have no business coaching at this level" Rolston to Ted "Just do it Harder" Nolan to DDB was never going to be an easy one. Add corrective re-education for the old players, adding new players and rookies in, and the coach himself adjusting to the new team and you've got a recipe for difficulty. Perhaps. We do genuinely look a ton better 95% of the time. There's just no actual options at RW, we're down a starting goalie (who may or may not even be the genuine article), and the D short one top four player. It has to improve. Not completely satisfied with DD but I will tip my hat to him for a couple of reasons. We don't quit. We have a good number of come from behind games. The team is not fully built yet and I do believe that if Lehner didn't get hurt we would have at least three more wins but you don't give up on this team down 3-1 or behind entering the third. That alone is massive improvement and has to come from him. Both of these. Yes, yes, yes. Because when a franchise that tanked for two years finishes near the bottom in the third year with a new cast, losing is close to becoming entrenched. It's all some of these kids have ever known. You're halfway to being Edmonton, or one of the many teams that never were seen again after bottoming out. The outcome isn't necessarily going to be Pittsburgh or Chicago. If this season is proceeding according to Murray's plan, he's an idiot. And this is why I and many others opposed the tank. Very often, it doesn't work, and the results are catastrophic. I'm far from concluding that the Sabres have reached that point, but no one should kid himself about the risk of a generation in the desert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clintwestwood Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 My biggest goal for this team, and especially Bylsma, is that they realize you don't have to enter the zone with a dump and chase every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korab rules Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) Three points better. And that's with Eichel, Reinhart, O'Reilly, Kane, and others who were not here last year. Don't bother trying to convince me that they should only be three points better. They should be fifteen points better. I'm not going to bite. But this team might have a better record if NOLAN was the coach. Three points. when was the multi game win streak last season that had us temporarily contending for a playoff spot? didn't they win 9 of 10 or something ridiculous like that right before Christmas? It is getting said that we are 3 points better than last year at this time, but we had just finished our 10-3-3 stretch about now and had gotten to within 3 points of the playoffs iirc. If we continue at this pace we will be ~20 points higher than next year by April, and despite my skepticism of Bylsma, I really don't think that we'll lose 14 in a row like we did last year, as well as go something like 9-30-something to end the year. I think we'll slightly pick up the points pace and finish around 77-83 points. there it is. 3 points doesn't tell the tale. Edited January 4, 2016 by korab rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 when was the multi game win streak last season that had us temporarily contending for a playoff spot? didn't they win 9 of 10 or something ridiculous like that right before Christmas? there it is. 3 points doesn't tell the tale. Don't be such a stranger, stranger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Yes, yes, yes. Because when a franchise that tanked for two years finishes near the bottom in the third year with a new cast, losing is close to becoming entrenched. It's all some of these kids have ever known. You're halfway to being Edmonton, or one of the many teams that never were seen again after bottoming out. The outcome isn't necessarily going to be Pittsburgh or Chicago. If this season is proceeding according to Murray's plan, he's an idiot. Entrenched in whom? Myers? Stafford? This team has rolled over more than 50% of its roster from one year ago. Who remains? Risto? Not a problem. Weber? He's a soldier but he's not part of the future, and besides he's playing some of his best hockey in years. There are a couple of players, maybe, that you can maybe point to as damaged from the tank- Larsson, Foligno, Girgs, and really I think there's still lots of upside for them. Moulson is just an enigma at this point. I predict that if they can't dump him somehow he'll come back strong next season though. There overall personality of this team has nothing to do with the tank. Eichel is frustrated, but that's personal frustration; the transition to the NHL from NCAA is the biggest jump he's ever experienced. He will eventually carry the team. RyanO and Reino are the engine and the transmission that will drive this team for years to come. Kane is misfiring but he had nothing to do with the tank. Bogo saw just a bit of it; he's a good player but he was perhaps a bit oversold in the trade (I frankly wouldn't mind Myers back, but then again he might still be sucking if he were here.) But with the all the moves, the overall direction of this team is upward. They are not going to get there in a single off-season and really need a few years of finding the right mix and honing the roster before they will be contenders. This is all going to plan. It's a bit below my expectations, but this is precisely the way the team should look right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I'm not reviewing this thread to see if the following has been discussed, but I do wonder if Bylsma is a Murray hire or a Pegula hire. Because if Bylsma is a Murray hire, I need to see Murray talking about WTF he plans to do about this hot mess. If Bylsma is a Pegula hire, I can understand why Murray is keeping his mouth shut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruppstahl Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Has Bylsma been fired yet? He will be before this team has arrived. Bank on that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Holy people... It hasn't even been half a season. We were the most historically talentless team in league history for two straight years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Hoss, on 06 Jan 2016 - 12:03 AM, said:Holy ###### people... It hasn't even been half a season. We were the most historically talentless team in league history for two straight years. It's hardly the same roster with a brand new coaching staff. The comparisons are invalid and even DDB thinks the comparison is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 It's hardly the same roster with a brand new coaching staff. The comparisons are invalid and even DDB thinks the comparison is ridiculous. Moulson, Ennis, Foligno, Girgensons, Gionta, Gorges, Bogosian, Risto, Weber, Larsson and Deslauriers all played roles during last season. That's over half the team still around. It's not a comparison, at all. It's about the fact that this team still has a lot of players from a talentless team around. There's four guys in that group that should have any role here long term. It'll take the full season to gel and then an entire offseason together will be big. I'm excited based on the first 40 games, not discouraged. And CERTAINLY not thinking about DDB being fired... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Moulson, Ennis, Foligno, Girgensons, Gionta, Gorges, Bogosian, Risto, Weber, Larsson and Deslauriers all played roles during last season. That's over half the team still around. It's not a comparison, at all. It's about the fact that this team still has a lot of players from a talentless team around. There's four guys in that group that should have any role here long term. It'll take the full season to gel and then an entire offseason together will be big. I'm excited based on the first 40 games, not discouraged. And CERTAINLY not thinking about DDB being fired... You are correct. And your posts lately have been a beacon of light. It does get hard though when the consecutive losses start piling up, and we are sitting at 5 in a row right now, and hopefully not heading towards 7 or more. I feel like right now after losses I have to vent frustration in the moment before looking at the macro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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