Randall Flagg Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Jack is clearly more talented than Sam, but he's not smarter and he may not be more competitive. They are both smarter and more competitive than Matthews. Jack is better now then Sam and he should have a better career. I realize I am in the minority, but I like Sam better then Matthews. I'm not a big Matthews fan either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Jack is clearly more talented than Sam, but he's not smarter and he may not be more competitive. They are both smarter and more competitive than Matthews. Jack is better now then Sam and he should have a better career. I realize I am in the minority, but I like Sam better then Matthews. I already went over this in another thread but IMO Matthews doesn't have the intangibles to be a star in the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) Jack is clearly more talented than Sam, but he's not smarter and he may not be more competitive. They are both smarter and more competitive than Matthews. Jack is better now then Sam and he should have a better career. I realize I am in the minority, but I like Sam better then Matthews. I've chimed in after your Samson posts at least once before. I'm a huge WJC fan. The only comparable I have is each of them in that setting. Samson absolutely amazed me. Now, I'm not a talent evaluator in the class of many here. I was unable to "see" how that translated to the NHL. I see now, with Samson. I remain amazed. Matthews may translate just as well or better. I'll leave that prognostication to the learned. In the meantime, if you're building a "Reinhart > Matthews" bunker anytime soon, save me a seat. Anyone snickering please recognize my limitations. At least I'll have good company. Edited March 28, 2016 by N'eo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 I already went over this in another thread but IMO Matthews doesn't have the intangibles to be a star in the NHL. I'm listening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norcal Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 What do you have more faith in happening? Eichel -> ....(is there really a comparable for him? Is it....Stamkos?) or Reinhart/Risto --> Bergeron/Keith?In a few years people will compare players to Eichel and Reinhart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 The rampant speculation in this thread is astounding. Everyone's an expert... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 The rampant speculation in this thread is astounding. Everyone's an expert... Thank you for noticing. :flirt: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 The rampant speculation in this thread is astounding. Everyone's an expert... Of course. If we weren't we'd be over at hockeysfuture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) What do you have more faith in happening? Eichel -> ....(is there really a comparable for him? Is it....Stamkos?) or Reinhart/Risto --> Bergeron/Keith? I some was going to ask something like this to torpedo my point. The answer is Jack. And I hate you :lol: Edited March 29, 2016 by TrueBlueGED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Where is all this questioning of Matthews' intangibles coming from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 I some ###### was going to ask something like this to torpedo my point. The answer is Jack. And I hate you :lol: ;) Where is all this questioning of Matthews' intangibles coming from? Where do you see that? I do find it interesting that some believe Reinhart > Matthews. Matthews draft stock is miles above what Reinhart's was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 ;) Where do you see that? I do find it interesting that some believe Reinhart > Matthews. Matthews draft stock is miles above what Reinhart's was Here. Questions about competitiveness and whatnot. Seems totally out of left field. On Reinhart, I think he's been better than advertised by no small margin. Every single one of the "he needs to work on ____" things has been improved quite a bit. I'm utterly thrilled with his development. I expected him to hit low-20 goals in his prime, not as a rookie! IMO his ceiling is higher than draft-year prognoses would have us believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Here. Questions about competitiveness and whatnot. Seems totally out of left field. On Reinhart, I think he's been better than advertised by no small margin. Every single one of the "he needs to work on ____" things has been improved quite a bit. I'm utterly thrilled with his development. I expected him to hit low-20 goals in his prime, not as a rookie! IMO his ceiling is higher than draft-year prognoses would have us believe. Definitely pleased with Samson, maybe even more so relative to draft hype than I am with Eichel. I always find myself in a debate with Samson though, on where he should play. If he has surprised this much at wing, what happens when we put him in his natural position? In turn, that means, can ROR deal with wing, though he did in Colorado, and can Jack deal without Samson? I believe both are true in an absolute sense, though their deviation relative to the current production is unknown. I lean towards keeping Jack and Sam together, and ROR at center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) Definitely pleased with Samson, maybe even more so relative to draft hype than I am with Eichel. I always find myself in a debate with Samson though, on where he should play. If he has surprised this much at wing, what happens when we put him in his natural position? In turn, that means, can ROR deal with wing, though he did in Colorado, and can Jack deal without Samson? I believe both are true in an absolute sense, though their deviation relative to the current production is unknown. I lean towards keeping Jack and Sam together, and ROR at center. Ultimately I still see Eichel-Reinhart down the middle long term, and while ROR-Eichel-Fasching gives me the feels, I'm not compelled to make this happen in the near term. I really love watching Eichel and Reinhart on the ice together, it's magical. In my perfect world things stay as are, Gionta retires after next season, then we slide O'Reilly onto Jack's wing while also handing him the captaincy. Edited March 29, 2016 by TrueBlueGED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Ultimately I still see Eichel-Reinhart down the middle long term, and while ROR-Eichel-Fasching gives me the feels, I'm not compelled to make this happen in the near term. I really love watching Eichel and Reinhart on the ice together, it's magical. In my perfect world things stay as are, Gionta retires after next season, then we slide O'Reilly onto Jack's wing while also handing him the captaincy. I'm interested to see if ROR compliments Jack's abilities. For one, ROR is amazing on the face off, and Jack is very solid, or at least better than Reinhart I believe. So on the same line, we immediately lose that. Also, Sam is a great net front presence. So far this year, I haven't really seen ROR go to teh front that often. Then again, that may be because he's playing center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) I'm interested to see if ROR compliments Jack's abilities. For one, ROR is amazing on the face off, and Jack is very solid, or at least better than Reinhart I believe. So on the same line, we immediately lose that. Also, Sam is a great net front presence. So far this year, I haven't really seen ROR go to teh front that often. Then again, that may be because he's playing center. I just go back to O'Reilly's best offensive year being on Duchene's wing. I don't have to think too hard to picture Eichel as a better Duchene stylistically. O'Reilly could be very useful in covering for Eichel's defensive deficiencies. And as far as faceoffs go...Jack is at 41% on the year, I think ROR would still be taking them :lol: But again, I'm really not compelled to force ROR to the wing. Edited March 29, 2016 by TrueBlueGED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 I believe Pi is the only one that questions Matthews' intangibles. He has this weird thing against Matthews going to Europe. Dudacek and Neo seem to prefer Samson to Matthews, which isn't necessarily demeaning Matthews, and I don't really believe intangibles exist, which is why I make fun of Toews on here a lot. I just am not as high on his abilities as some people out there are. A decent chunk of hfboards posters and journalists out there would have Matthews at 2 over Eichel if he was drafted last year, and I don't see it. I'm a homer about a lot of things, but I truly believe Matthews is a level below Jack, at least. I think he'll be a good first line player, but if we end up with pick 1 I'm interested in shopping it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Jack is clearly more talented than Sam, but he's not smarter and he may not be more competitive. They are both smarter and more competitive than Matthews. Jack is better now then Sam and he should have a better career. I realize I am in the minority, but I like Sam better then Matthews. I like Sam better, too. In no small part because I am completely enthralled by the type of cerebral game he plays, and I am drawn to those types of players. What do you have more faith in happening? Eichel -> ....(is there really a comparable for him? Is it....Stamkos?) or Reinhart/Risto --> Bergeron/Keith? This isn't addressed to me so I won't address the actual question, but I don't think Stamkos is a good comparisson to Eichel. Eichel is a playmaker first and foremost, who also happens to have a wicked shot and goal scoring instincts. It's why his ceiling is higher than a Stamkos. Not sure of a current NHL comparable. He's more of a Getzlaf, but with better goal scoring instincts. He scores Ovechkin-like goals. His most recent one against Winnipeg was textbook Ovi. Here. Questions about competitiveness and whatnot. Seems totally out of left field. On Reinhart, I think he's been better than advertised by no small margin. Every single one of the "he needs to work on ____" things has been improved quite a bit. I'm utterly thrilled with his development. I expected him to hit low-20 goals in his prime, not as a rookie! IMO his ceiling is higher than draft-year prognoses would have us believe. And he was projected as a first line player in the NHL. So this is very good news. I'm interested to see if ROR compliments Jack's abilities. For one, ROR is amazing on the face off, and Jack is very solid, or at least better than Reinhart I believe. So on the same line, we immediately lose that. Also, Sam is a great net front presence. So far this year, I haven't really seen ROR go to teh front that often. Then again, that may be because he's playing center. Against his peers at the WJC, Reinhart was an absolute beast in the face-off circle, and played basically the last 5 minutes in the gold-medal game, taking nearly all of the important draws, in an effort to seal the win, which he did. Long term I think Sam is better in the face-off circle than Jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted March 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Sabres are now Guaranteed a lottery pick. Can't finish any better than 13th last but could fall behind the 14th last team depending on lottery result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Article comparing Matthews to Jack https://www.nhl.com/news/jack-eichel-auston-matthews-comparison/c-279952666?tid=277764372 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) Article comparing Matthews to Jack https://www.nhl.com/news/jack-eichel-auston-matthews-comparison/c-279952666?tid=277764372 And here is the concern with Matthews "Matthews to me looks bigger and uses his shoulders really well to cut into traffic and make plays," Starman said. "Eichel has this ability to sell you on a long stick and then bring it in. Matthews doesn't sell as much, but he seems to know what he wants to do and you know what he wants to do and he's able to do it because of his skill level and those hands." Mark Kelley, Blackhawks senior director of amateur scouting, said he feels Eichel and Matthews are two distinctively different players but impactful in their own right. "Auston probably plays a little more of a power game in terms of going through areas whereas Jack has that power game that's a little more surgical." Kelley said Matthews is quicker in cutting, and better down low because of his quicker feet. However, he doesn't have the shot that Jack has, nor, apparently, the creativity. If Matthews is relying on simply overpowering an opponent with skill, and not creativity, it won't fly in the NHL. Edited March 29, 2016 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 I think there are plenty of players who you know what they're going to do and they are still able to beat the opponent doing it because of their ability. I think if that's his style he might take a few years to work out the kinks, but he'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 I think there are plenty of players who you know what they're going to do and they are still able to beat the opponent doing it because of their ability. I think if that's his style he might take a few years to work out the kinks, but he'll be fine. That depends. You know Ovechkin and Jack are gonna shoot, but good luck stopping that. If you know someone is going to try and shoulder there way through to the net, you can stop that much more easily. I'm not saying Matthews isn't great, or that he isn't creative compared to more other prospects, but if he doesn't have Jack's shot, or Jack's brains, or Reinhart's brains... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 That depends. You know Ovechkin and Jack are gonna shoot, but good luck stopping that. If you know someone is going to try and shoulder there way through to the net, you can stop that much more easily. I'm not saying Matthews isn't great, or that he isn't creative compared to more other prospects, but if he doesn't have Jack's shot, or Jack's brains, or Reinhart's brains... I thought his shot was supposed to be better than Jack's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 I thought his shot was supposed to be better than Jack's?I would be beyond surprised. I haven't seen that anywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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