Trade: Myers, Stafford, Armia, Lemieux, + Low 1st for Kane, Bogosian, and Kasdorf

[bunomatic]

That trade wasn't about Staff. Both GMs involved in that trade understand the type of player Staff is. His past history makes that obvious. He was a throw in.

Edited August 8, 2015 by bunomatic

[Ducky]

I'd take 15g and 25-30a from Staf on the 2nd line no problema.

He isn't expected to score 30 times a year and put up 70 points...

 

Regarding him missing games, he has averaged about 72 games a year for the last 7 not counting the lockout year. Check out how many games Bogo and Kane have missed not counting the lockout year...Bogo is averaging 67 and Kane is averaging 63 per season. I really hope Kane has grown up and doesn't cause any troubles in the sabres' locker room for you guys.

 

If we get 35-45 points a year from Drew, we'll be happy.

[LGR4GM]

I'd take 15g and 25-30a from Staf on the 2nd line no problema.

He isn't expected to score 30 times a year and put up 70 points...

 

Regarding him missing games, he has averaged about 72 games a year for the last 7 not counting the lockout year. Check out how many games Bogo and Kane have missed not counting the lockout year...Bogo is averaging 67 and Kane is averaging 63 per season. I really hope Kane has grown up and doesn't cause any troubles in the sabres' locker room for you guys.

 

If we get 35-45 points a year from Drew, we'll be happy.

Kane has missed 97 games.  45 of those games come from this past season where he had his shoulder injury, which he received the season before.  Considering Foligno had the same surgery, I am not very worried about Kane only playing 63 games a season now that he is recovered. Stafford could have played 622 games, we ignore the season he split time in the AHL.  Stafford has missed 74 games since going full NHL pro.

 

Bogo doesn't compare to Kane, he compares to Myers. Myers has missed 69 games.  Bogosian missed time his first season because he split time in the AHL.  Out of the 458 games he could have played outside that first split season, he has missed 91 games if my math is right.

 

Myers + Stafford = 143 games

Kane + Bogo = 188 games

or a difference of 45 games over the course of 6 or so seasons for 2 players.

[Ducky]

Kane has missed 97 games.  45 of those games come from this past season where he had his shoulder injury, which he received the season before.  Considering Foligno had the same surgery, I am not very worried about Kane only playing 63 games a season now that he is recovered. Stafford could have played 622 games, we ignore the season he split time in the AHL.  Stafford has missed 74 games since going full NHL pro.

 

Bogo doesn't compare to Kane, he compares to Myers. Myers has missed 69 games.  Bogosian missed time his first season because he split time in the AHL.  Out of the 458 games he could have played outside that first split season, he has missed 91 games if my math is right.

 

Myers + Stafford = 143 games

Kane + Bogo = 188 games

or a difference of 45 games over the course of 6 or so seasons for 2 players.

Proof that you can make numbers say whatever you want...what about the fact that Staf started int he league 3 years before Kane? Kane has missed 23 more games in 3 less years!

Bogo has lost 32 more games in 5 seasons so 6.4 more games or about a full season projected over a career.

[Huckleberry]

A nice write up about jason kasdorf.

 

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=70552&blogger_id=209

part1

 

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Michael-Pachla/Getting-to-know-goalie-prospect-Jason-Kasdorf-Part-II/209/70556

part2

 

 

"When I was growing up," said Kasdorf, a Winnipeg Jets fan as a youth, "The Sabres were my father's favorite team. After the [2004-05] lockout I was in the seventh grade and I always remember he really liked the Sabres.

"It was very cool for him when I got traded to Buffalo."

[Ducky]

All the best to him...

The Portage Terriers always dueled the Selkirk Steelers when I was younger (early to mid 70s) and I was a Steeler's fan so, I grew up hating the Terriers ALMOST as much as the Bruins.

 

There honestly wasn't much room for him with the 2 goalies we have and the 2 we have on the farm. I full expect Hellebuyck to be the starter in 2 to 2 1/2 years with Comrie or Hutchinson backing him up. It depends which one we lose in the expansion draft.

[Huckleberry]

All the best to him...

The Portage Terriers always dueled the Selkirk Steelers when I was younger (early to mid 70s) and I was a Steeler's fan so, I grew up hating the Terriers ALMOST as much as the Bruins.

 

There honestly wasn't much room for him with the 2 goalies we have and the 2 we have on the farm. I full expect Hellebuyck to be the starter in 2 to 2 1/2 years with Comrie or Hutchinson backing him up. It depends which one we lose in the expansion draft.

 

 

Kassdorf I think surprised many with his play during development camp, Not meaning he jumped up on goalie depth chart.   But he stood out mainly because our own goalie prospects have been struggling.

[Thorny]

All the best to him...

The Portage Terriers always dueled the Selkirk Steelers when I was younger (early to mid 70s) and I was a Steeler's fan so, I grew up hating the Terriers ALMOST as much as the Bruins.

 

There honestly wasn't much room for him with the 2 goalies we have and the 2 we have on the farm. I full expect Hellebuyck to be the starter in 2 to 2 1/2 years with Comrie or Hutchinson backing him up. It depends which one we lose in the expansion draft.

 

If the Jets protect two goalies, they aren't protecting Hutchinson. And Hutchinson probably won't get claimed in the expansion draft.

[Neo]

You're right that Drew Stafford doesn't seem like a 1st line RW or top-3 guy, but in reality that's more about fan perception than the quality of the players. We see the truly great RWs (like Ovechkin and PKane (unless he's in jail)) and say, "that's what a top line RW looks like!" while in reality, that's what a top-5 RW looks like, most teams have someone closer to Stafford than those guys. I think it happens with any position (and any sport). You feel like your team needs that guy to be good, but most teams don't have that guy either. For instance, Patrick Sharp (and I didn't know this until I just looked it up) has that same 43 points and two fewer goals last year in 8 fewer games. That's playing on the top line on the Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks with a couple of the best players in the league. If you bump up that total for the same number of games, we're only talking about 47 or 48 points and the same 18 goals. There's no way anyone can say Patrick Sharp is a first-line player without admitting Drew Stafford is too based on scoring.

Insight

[French Collection]

Chicago had Kane, Hossa and Sharp on RW, so Sharp spent some time on the 3rd line. He also played some LW and the point on the PP. It was a down year for him.

[MattPie]

Chicago had Kane, Hossa and Sharp on RW, so Sharp spent some time on the 3rd line. He also played some LW and the point on the PP. It was a down year for him.

 

I'll take your word for it, I don't follow the Hawks that closely. I was thinking, though, does it matter if a player is having a down year or an average (or exceptional) if the numbers and play are the same? (as in, a good year for Stafford == a down year for Sharp).

[DarthEbriate]

I'm procrastinating doing work… so… I'll take a stab at it. 

 

It's true. With the exception of Stafford's breakout .839 ppg in 2010-2011, his best season is .625 points per game in 2011-2012. Sharp's worst season in that time is .632 points per game (in 2014-15). So -- you're exactly right. A good Stafford season is a down Sharp season.

 

Unofficially, since the start of the 07-08 season, using regular season only, including play on all teams:

 

Sharp has 453 points in 549 games (.823 pts per game).

Stafford has 314 points in 548 games (.573 ppg).

 

Stafford's best season is only a little better than Sharp's mean over those same eight seasons. Of course, in general, one of these guys is getting 2nd line minutes and powerplay time, and the other is getting 1st. For contrast, our #1 RW most of that time was Pominville, registering 481 points in 612 games (.786 points per game).

 

Idle hands look up numbers online. :unsure:

[MattPie]

I'm procrastinating doing work… so… I'll take a stab at it. 

 

It's true. With the exception of Stafford's breakout .839 ppg in 2010-2011, his best season is .625 points per game in 2011-2012. Sharp's worst season in that time is .632 points per game (in 2014-15). So -- you're exactly right. A good Stafford season is a down Sharp season.

 

Unofficially, since the start of the 07-08 season, using regular season only, including play on all teams:

 

Sharp has 453 points in 549 games (.823 pts per game).

Stafford has 314 points in 548 games (.573 ppg).

 

Stafford's best season is only a little better than Sharp's mean over those same eight seasons. Of course, in general, one of these guys is getting 2nd line minutes and powerplay time, and the other is getting 1st. For contrast, our #1 RW most of that time was Pominville, registering 481 points in 612 games (.786 points per game).

 

Idle hands look up numbers online. :unsure:

 

That's a lot of work for an off-handed comparison. :) Thanks. In any case, it reinforces (at least for me) what has been bouncing around in my head: a player like Stafford won't be a central cog in your Stanley Cup team, but he's sufficient to play on one unless you're loaded on RW. Can Stafford play center? :devil:

[Doohickie]

Can Stafford play center? :devil:

 

Every bit as well as Leino  :angel:

[Ducky]

If the Jets protect two goalies, they aren't protecting Hutchinson. And Hutchinson probably won't get claimed in the expansion draft.

Now that i think of it, Comrie won't have to be protected, will he? Also, I would sooner protect Hutch than Pavs. Pavs is not our future, this is a for sure. We can't say that about Hutch yet.

 

I think Staf will do well for the next two years. Armia starts in the AHL but is the first call up in case of injury. Lemieux goes back to the Colts (although some people in these parts see him starting with the Jets this year!!!!!!!!!!). Myers will get his 24 minutes a game and be a big minute shut down defender. Absolutley shut Ovie right down at end of year last season.

[LGR4GM]

Myers... shut down defender...

[Ogre]

Ducky, I hope Armia makes something of himself up there. I like his talent but question his durability. I watched him a fair bit in Rochester. He has good vision and hands but he had extended lost time due to injury. I will be following his career. I hope he breaks out from the AHL at some point.

[JohnnyK]

Does anyone here want Stafford back? (For free like we resigned him)

or even Myers (Who I like) if it means giving back Kane or Zach B

I for one do not!

Go Sabres!

[WildCard]

Myers... shut down defender...

(Cut out the gif for mobile users, good use of gif though

Gonna have to agree with this. As fans who watched him for years, even during his best season (Calder Year) he has never been a typical "shut down defender", in the same way that Mike Green isn't and neither is Sekera. Myers is what he is, but asking him to anchor your top minutes with domination against the likes of Ovie on a consistent basis is just asking too much IMO

[qwksndmonster]

Gonna have to agree with this. As fans who watched him for years, even during his best season (Calder Year) he has never been a typical "shut down defender", in the same way that Mike Green isn't and neither is Sekera. Myers is what he is, but asking him to anchor your top minutes with domination against the likes of Ovie on a consistent basis is just asking too much IMO

He's not shut down, but he's better in the D-zone than a lot of folks here give him credit for

[Ducky]

He played just under 25 minutes a game last year and Maurice played him in a shut down role when he had him for Team Canada. This is what the The Hockey News has to say about him...

 

"Is incredibly big and lanky, but also a very good skater for his size. Can play in all game situations and also boasts very good offensive upside. Can also be a big-minute shutdown defender."

Edited August 27, 2015 by Ducky

[Ducky]

This... all of this...

 

 

I can't even formulate words as to how much I hate this.

I am guessing your opinion on the trade has changed?

Ducky, I hope Armia makes something of himself up there. I like his talent but question his durability. I watched him a fair bit in Rochester. He has good vision and hands but he had extended lost time due to injury. I will be following his career. I hope he breaks out from the AHL at some point.

The AHL coach says he is inconsistent but otherwise raved about him.... won't make/stay with the team long  if that is true. Room on the roster for a couple of forwards and 1 D man (Morrissey if he makes it).

 

 

I see you are a Nordiques fan. I hope you guys get a team back because there should be one waaaaay before Miami, Phoenix, Las Vegas, etc...

[nfreeman]

The AHL coach says he is inconsistent but otherwise raved about him.... won't make/stay with the team long if that is true. Room on the roster for a couple of forwards and 1 D man (Morrissey if he makes it).

 

 

I see you are a Nordiques fan. I hope you guys get a team back because there should be one waaaaay before Miami, Phoenix, Las Vegas, etc...

How could Armia's coach have been high on him with such poor production?

 

I bear no animus towards Armia, but you should be forewarned that Darcy couldn't draft a good forward if his life depended on it.

 

I too would like to see Quebec get another shot at having a team. The Nordiques-Habs rivalry was fantastic.

[Ducky]

what he said was based on what he saw last season and this year's development camp.

I trust Chevy's judgement.

[LGR4GM]

I am guessing your opinion on the trade has changed?

Yea, it is no longer the day of the trade where players I liked or was excited about suddenly were no longer here.  We have had time to digest, discuss, analyze, and otherwise evaluate.  I don't like the trade at the moment but I can live with it.  If all the prospects we traded you flame out, Myers continues to be Myers and Stafford goes back to his usual standards, then Kane and Bogosian help us win a cup I will love the trade.