Drunkard Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 I just don't see an owner popping up in Houston that will fight harder for a franchise than one in a more northern location like KC or Seattle. And despite Houston and Dallas being in the same state, the climate is radically different; Houston is Gulf Coast- more like Florida. Dallas is a plains city, closer to say, Oklahoma City, in terms of climate, including actual freezing weather and snow and stuff (not much, but some). There is an outdoor ice rink that opens in the winter months here in Ft. Worth. Speaking of OKC, I would expect they'd be more likely to get an NHL franchise and support it than Houston. If you're going to go that small it should go to an actual city that would appreciate hockey like Milwaukee but only if they purchase the rights of naming their franchise the Beers from the Southpark guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Any word on how a no-movement clause factors into an expansion draft? Does it apply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Any word on how a no-movement clause factors into an expansion draft? Does it apply? They'll sort that stuff out as it approaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 If you're going to go that small it should go to an actual city that would appreciate hockey like Milwaukee but only if they purchase the rights of naming their franchise the Beers from the Southpark guys. I wouldn't begrudge Milwaukee a team, but I think there's more wealth in OKC and they are more of a city on the rise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I wouldn't begrudge Milwaukee a team, but I think there's more wealth in OKC and they are more of a city on the rise. That's the same kind of thinking that led to teams in southern florida, Arizona, and Atlanta twice. I bet the people in Milwaukee would appreciate an NHL team a hell of a lot more than OKC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biodork Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I think Houston definitely deserves a shot: 1. Fifth largest metro area in the United States. 2. NHL-caliber arena already present with the 11-year old Toyota Center. 3. Hockey tradition with the WHA Aeros of the 1970's plus decades of minor league hockey. 4. Instant rivalry with the Dallas Stars whom are somewhat geographically isolated from the rest of the NHL. 5. A central time zone city that helps with division balance so teams like Columbus and Detroit aren't forced to move back into the Western Conference. Houston's ONLY problem right now is a lack of ownership interested in bringing the NHL to the city...kind of a big problem....but that could easily change in the same way Terry Pegula wasn't even on the WNY radar 6+ years ago. Carolina is a fair-weather hockey city, so expect attendance in future seasons to look a lot like last year. I don't see the team beating out the Rangers, Islanders, Caps, or Penguins for a long while. And how many seasons of poor attendance will ownership be willing to absorb? Raleigh is not the same-sized TV market as Miami or Phoenix, so I'm not sure Bettman will fight for the Hurricanes in the same way that he has been for the Coyotes and Panthers. Good points. I can't remember if it's TrueBlue or someone else whose class did an exercise and came up with Houston as a viable city based on a number of metrics? I might be thinking Blue only because of the analytics involved, haha. I just don't see an owner popping up in Houston that will fight harder for a franchise than one in a more northern location like KC or Seattle. And despite Houston and Dallas being in the same state, the climate is radically different; Houston is Gulf Coast- more like Florida. Dallas is a plains city, closer to say, Oklahoma City, in terms of climate, including actual freezing weather and snow and stuff (not much, but some). There is an outdoor ice rink that opens in the winter months here in Ft. Worth. Speaking of OKC, I would expect they'd be more likely to get an NHL franchise and support it than Houston. Except OKC just lost their AHL team... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 That's the same kind of thinking that led to teams in southern florida, Arizona, and Atlanta twice. I bet the people in Milwaukee would appreciate an NHL team a hell of a lot more than OKC. Exactly. For as much as people have been hating on southern hockey for... ever... there's been a lot of talk about Houston and now the mention of OKC in here. The only thing on Milwaukee is that the Pres. of the Bucks just did the old "we're moving the team if we don't get a bunch of tax breaks because we're rich but like to hoard our cash and mooch off of taxpayers" thing. I hope Obama gets his law regulating the public funding of sports stadiums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Except OKC just lost their AHL team... So they've got empty dates at the arena. Excellent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Good points. I can't remember if it's TrueBlue or someone else whose class did an exercise and came up with Houston as a viable city based on a number of metrics? I might be thinking Blue only because of the analytics involved, haha. Except OKC just lost their AHL team... Why? Lack of support or the NHL club wanting their farm team closer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biodork Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 So they've got empty dates at the arena. Excellent! :lol: probably a smaller arena, though. Why? Lack of support or the NHL club wanting their farm team closer? Not sure, to be honest. Could be either (or both), but OKC strikes me as much more of an NBA/NFL market than NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) Exactly. For as much as people have been hating on southern hockey for... ever... there's been a lot of talk about Houston and now the mention of OKC in here. The only thing on Milwaukee is that the Pres. of the Bucks just did the old "we're moving the team if we don't get a bunch of tax breaks because we're rich but like to hoard our cash and mooch off of taxpayers" thing. I hope Obama gets his law regulating the public funding of sports stadiums. We don't need a law for this. We need consumers and constituents to uphold their responsibility. Fans make the owners rich. Fans also elect public officials. If enough people want to support a team and enough people keep electing officials who will cater to the whims of these teams then it should continue to happen. I like to posit this test to people. What happened on the last Game of Thrones episode (or insert some other popular show, or Sabres prospect camp)? Now, what happened at your last town government meeting, state government meeting, etc.? Which are you better equipped to answer? I'll hazard a guess that television and the Sabres win out handily and until that's not the case... Edited July 8, 2015 by LTS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 We don't need a law for this. We need consumers and constituents to uphold their responsibility. Fans make the owners rich. Fans also elect public officials. If enough people want to support a team and enough people keep electing officials who will cater to the whims of these teams then it should continue to happen. I like to posit this test to people. What happened on the last Game of Thrones episode (or insert some other popular show, or Sabres prospect camp)? Now, what happened at your last town government meeting, state government meeting, etc.? Which are you better equipped to answer? I'll hazard a guess that television and the Sabres win out handily and until that's not the case... The teams can just leave, though. It's a pay to play scheme, really, without any real recourse of action by fans. I don't think the owners bluff on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) We don't need a law for this. We need consumers and constituents to uphold their responsibility. Fans make the owners rich. Fans also elect public officials. If enough people want to support a team and enough people keep electing officials who will cater to the whims of these teams then it should continue to happen. I like to posit this test to people. What happened on the last Game of Thrones episode (or insert some other popular show, or Sabres prospect camp)? Now, what happened at your last town government meeting, state government meeting, etc.? Which are you better equipped to answer? I'll hazard a guess that television and the Sabres win out handily and until that's not the case... Your argument against this law could be applied to every single law. We don't need laws preventing and punishing murder... We just need everybody to uphold their responsibility not to. As long as there is the ability to use tax money for these stadiums these rich owners will use it. If not in their current city they'll find another. Edited July 8, 2015 by Hoss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) :lol: probably a smaller arena, though. Chesapeake Energy Arena (where the OKC Thunder play) has a capacity of 18,203. The OKC Barons played at Cox Convention Center with a capacity of 13,399. And I'll relent... in trying to find some of that info out I found articles that said the team folded due to lack of support. (One might make the argument that with the arrival of the Thunder, people don't want to watch minor league sports and that there may be support for a major league one, but there would be direct competition with the Thunder which have been a consistent playoff team.) Edited July 8, 2015 by Robins Egg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I'll note that Andrew Peters, one of our finest hockey minds, stated yesterday that he supports contraction and not expansion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastajoe Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Why? Lack of support or the NHL club wanting their farm team closer? OKC moved to Bakersfield CA to be part of the new AHL Pacific division to cut travel and expenses, as they will be playing most games within division. Suprised that OKC didn't join the ECHL which has a team in Tulsa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 OKC moved to Bakersfield CA to be part of the new AHL Pacific division to cut travel and expenses, as they will be playing most games within division. Suprised that OKC didn't join the ECHL which has a team in Tulsa. The team didn't move, it folded. The franchise was taken over by the Edmonton Oilers and moved to Bakersfield. But the owners of the OKC Barons "ceased operations" of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I'll note that Andrew Peters, one of our finest hockey minds, stated yesterday that he supports contraction and not expansion. That goes totally against his argument that the league needs Zac Rinaldo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 That goes totally against his argument that the league needs Zac Rinaldo. Sure it does. Contraction will push all those job-stealing Euros out instead. Like Johan Larsson. Sure he was our first-line centre to finish last year, but there is no room for him now. Oh yeah, and re-sign Pat Kaleta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Sure it does. Contraction will push all those job-stealing Euros out instead. Like Johan Larsson. Sure he was our first-line centre to finish last year, but there is no room for him now. Oh yeah, and re-sign Pat Kaleta. The biggest threat to these good American jobs in the good ole NHL is our neighbor the the north. How far do we have to contract to push out those damn Maple Syrup chugging people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) The biggest threat to these good American jobs in the good ole NHL is our neighbor the the north. How far do we have to contract to push out those damn Maple Syrup chugging people? Maybe the US teams need to retaliate against the CFL and its minimum number of Canadian-born player rule with a minimum number of US-born players per team. Edited July 8, 2015 by MattPie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Good points. I can't remember if it's TrueBlue or someone else whose class did an exercise and came up with Houston as a viable city based on a number of metrics? I might be thinking Blue only because of the analytics involved, haha. Except OKC just lost their AHL team... We do the calculations every year. And, Houston always comes out on top (based on a reasonable set of assumptions). The problem with the market is Les Alexander, who owns the Toyota Center and its primary tenant the Houston Rockets, isn't interested in the NHL and won't allow another owner to use his building. So it'd take a new arena to get the NHL to Houston and that won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 That goes totally against his argument that the league needs Zac Rinaldo. Peters invoked Emerson's famous quote that a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. He then went on to discuss Spinoza, and also explained how the fast track trade agreement will affect blueline play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BagBoy Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 My understanding about a team in Milwaukee is that the Hawks won't allow it, just like the Leafs won't allow Hamilton or Markham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biodork Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Chesapeake Energy Arena (where the OKC Thunder play) has a capacity of 18,203. The OKC Barons played at Cox Convention Center with a capacity of 13,399. And I'll relent... in trying to find some of that info out I found articles that said the team folded due to lack of support. (One might make the argument that with the arrival of the Thunder, people don't want to watch minor league sports and that there may be support for a major league one, but there would be direct competition with the Thunder which have been a consistent playoff team.) Yeah, that's unfortunate... there's very little competition sports-wise there, but the Thunder are a huge draw and the demographics of the city haven't yet changed to include enough people who would support hockey, unfortunately. It doesn't help that their NHL affiliate was Edmonton (both terrible and very distant). Sure it does. Contraction will push all those job-stealing Euros out instead. Like Johan Larsson. Sure he was our first-line centre to finish last year, but there is no room for him now. Oh yeah, and re-sign Pat Kaleta. :( I still want this to happen, if only so that he can retire a Sabre. We do the calculations every year. And, Houston always comes out on top (based on a reasonable set of assumptions). The problem with the market is Les Alexander, who owns the Toyota Center and its primary tenant the Houston Rockets, isn't interested in the NHL and won't allow another owner to use his building. So it'd take a new arena to get the NHL to Houston and that won't happen. I knew I had the wrong person before! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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