Buffalo Bills 2014

[Eleven]

I heard you the first time. Brees never looked as bad as Manuel does. The talent and ability was always there with Brees. Injuries did him in. Watching Manuel vs watching other recent QBs who struggled early and became great later is a completely different experience. The latter guys may have had poor stats but they showed clear signs that they had it, even on plays that turned into INTs. Manuel just doesn't look like he has it almost ever. He seems like a great kid and a good leader, but the abilities just aren't there.

 

And not EJ? What do you think happened last year?

 

Not saying the guy is the answer, but it's way too early to say that he isn't.

 

 

If memory serves it was between the Bills 40 and the 50.

 

FWIW, I liked Ruel.

 

I hate punting with short distance in that situation. And the stats back my hatred of it.

 

As for Tuel, umm, still like him now?

 

Also: Peyton Hillis. From Madden cover to, umm, what?

[...]

That wasn't Tuel who threw that interception.

Edited August 4, 2014 by sizzlemeister

[Hoss]

 

 

And not EJ? What do you think happened last year?

 

Not saying the guy is the answer, but it's way too early to say that he isn't.

 

I can't definitively say he isn't and I know the franchise won't, but I don't think he has the required talents to be a good QB. Accuracy and awareness being the two things he lacks exponentially. Also the two hardest things to change.

 

As for last year, I think it was injuries and play. He wasn't particularly good unless the play calling was extremely basic and safe.

 

This franchise needs a great QB. Everything else is irrelevant until that happens. Waiting years for a guy that doesn't look the part isn't a great idea. I think that this year should go a long way to deciding the fate of the position. If he's terrible or suffers a major injury then I would make the move next offseason. At least for somebody who could bring in heavy conpetition/future potential (Bryce Petty of Baylor and Sean Mannion of Oregon State are two guys I like a lot). If he shows improvement then keep it going with him.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Tankalicious

[Eleven]

That wasn't Tuel who threw that interception.

 

The one in the end zone? It absolutely was.

 

Lewis threw the second one.

 

I can't definitively say he isn't and I know the franchise won't, but I don't think he has the required talents to be a good QB. Accuracy and awareness being the two things he lacks exponentially. Also the two hardest things to change.

 

As for last year, I think it was injuries and play. He wasn't particularly good unless the play calling was extremely basic and safe.

 

This franchise needs a great QB. Everything else is irrelevant until that happens. Waiting years for a guy that doesn't look the part isn't a great idea. I think that this year should go a long way to deciding the fate of the position. If he's terrible or suffers a major injury then I would make the move next offseason. At least for somebody who could bring in heavy conpetition/future potential (Bryce Petty of Baylor and Sean Mannion of Oregon State are two guys I like a lot). If he shows improvement then keep it going with him.

 

We basically are in agreement. I need to see this year; last year (and every Q's rookie year, AFAIC) is nothing.

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

My big concern is that it isn't just this year, trading away our first rounder means that it's the next two years before we can throw our hat in the ring for a franchise saving QB.

 

And I'm not done hoping that EJ's the guy - just looking at the possibilities if he isn't.

[Hoss]

 

We basically are in agreement. I need to see this year; last year (and every Q's rookie year, AFAIC) is nothing.

 

Mhm. Last year was discouraging, but this year is what matters. Does he make a huge jump and make the job his long-term? Does he make a small jump and buy another year? Does he stick in neutral and leave a question mark? Or does he have another poor year and force the hand of whatever decision maker the team has in place (new ownership could alter that)?

[TrueBlueGED]

I heard you the first time. Brees never looked as bad as Manuel does. The talent and ability was always there with Brees. Injuries did him in. Watching Manuel vs watching other recent QBs who struggled early and became great later is a completely different experience. The latter guys may have had poor stats but they showed clear signs that they had it, even on plays that turned into INTs. Manuel just doesn't look like he has it almost ever. He seems like a great kid and a good leader, but the abilities just aren't there.

 

I disagree completely. His first two years as a starter he was anywhere from below average to extremely mediocre at best.

 

I want to like the Brees comparison, in terms of development arc.

 

Problem being: Accuracy was always Drew's calling card. EJ's lack of the same remains very troubling.

 

Manuel will never have the accuracy to be an elite, or even great, QB. It's just not there. However, I see little reason to think he can't be Flacco-esque.

 

Yes, I want better than Flacco-esque...but it's still better than we've had since Bledsoe's half season of awesome.

[darksabre]

Nassib with a TD pass. Burn.

[Hoss]

 

 

I disagree completely. His first two years as a starter he was anywhere from below average to extremely mediocre at best.

 

Brees was very good his first year as a starter considering it was his first year playing. Especially for those days... His second year was downright brutal, though. The year they drafted Rivers was when he turned it up, but it was too late.

[Taro T]

Nassib with a TD pass. Burn.

Dog it. Their 2nd string QB can make our 4th teamers look silly. Who'd've thunk?

 

I actually was pretty happy w/ this game. The Bills starting D beat their 1's. If EJ could keep from getting every other pass batted down, the Bills O would have been looking good. As it was, they had a wash w/ the Jints' D.

 

Hopkins knocked 3 out of the endzone and the 4th was deep enough for a touchback. Carpenter nailed a 51 yarder.

 

Kind of reminded me of a Marv preseason game.

[LastPommerFan]

And not EJ? What do you think happened last year?

 

Not saying the guy is the answer, but it's way too early to say that he isn't.

 

I hate to be the Drane here, but it wasn't too early to say that he isn't the answer the moment he was drafted.

 

Great Quarterbacks (and that's what you need in this league if you want to be in the playoffs regularly) have two calling cards, accuracy and speed reading defenses. EJ does not now and has not ever had those critical items as his strength. EJ is what happens when you want something very specific, and when you can't get it you settle for something else. EJ is Ville Leino.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Glass Case Of Emotion

[nfreeman]

 

We basically are in agreement. I need to see this year; last year (and every Q's rookie year, AFAIC) is nothing.

 

This is where I am as well.

 

Mhm. Last year was discouraging, but this year is what matters. Does he make a huge jump and make the job his long-term? Does he make a small jump and buy another year? Does he stick in neutral and leave a question mark? Or does he have another poor year and force the hand of whatever decision maker the team has in place (new ownership could alter that)?

 

I don't agree that he had a "poor" year last year, but if doesn't show quite a bit this year, I think the new GM and coach will look elswhere.

[Doohickie]

I was underwhelmed by the mediocrity of this game.

[TrueBlueGED]

Brees was very good his first year as a starter considering it was his first year playing. Especially for those days... His second year was downright brutal, though. The year they drafted Rivers was when he turned it up, but it was too late.

 

The only thing Brees did better than EJ as a first year starter was stay healthy. EJ missed all of the preseason and parts of the regular season...that's not exactly good for development. I'm not exactly swinging from EJ's nuts (I said his ceiling is Flacco FFS), but his rookie season was very much the norm for non-elite QBs.

[LGR4GM]

I hate to be the Drane here, but it wasn't too early to say that he isn't the answer the moment he was drafted.

 

Great Quarterbacks (and that's what you need in this league if you want to be in the playoffs regularly) have two calling cards, accuracy and speed reading defenses. EJ does not now and has not ever had those critical items as his strength. EJ is what happens when you want something very specific, and when you can't get it you settle for something else. EJ is Ville Leino.

I swear to god I said this last year after we drafted him.

 

My issue is that they had 3 SEC QB's with skill available in the 4th round this year and they took none of them. McCarron, Murray, Mettenberger. Any one of them would have been nice to see slotted behind Manuel for the year because at least it gives you some talent when EJ inevitably gets injured.

[tom webster]

 

 

Brees was very good his first year as a starter considering it was his first year playing. Especially for those days... His second year was downright brutal, though. The year they drafted Rivers was when he turned it up, but it was too late.

 

First,

In pretty sure you were around 8 in Brees first year.

Second,

I'm pretty sure he started one game his rookie year.

[LastPommerFan]

Eleven, the Chargers had enough patience with Brees to Draft Manning=>Rivers after his second season as a starter.

 

Unfortunately, because we decided to have shiny object syndrome in April, we won't be able to have that level of patience, we're going to have to be even MORE patient.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Glass Case Of Emotion

[Eleven]

First,

In pretty sure you were around 8 in Brees first year.

Second,

I'm pretty sure he started one game his rookie year.

 

This is correct. He had the benefit of a year of clipboard holding, which was planned for EJ, but which obviously didn't happen. Fact remains, based upon Brees's first two years as a starter, SD was done with him. That's too quick.

 

Eleven, the Chargers had enough Patience with Brees to Draft Manning=>Rivers after his second season as a starter.

 

Unfortunately, because we decided to have shiny object syndrome in April, we won't be able to have that level of patience, we're going to have to be even MORE patient.

 

The first sentence is precisely my point.

 

As to the second, I think I'm on record somewhere as to what a bad idea that was.

[LastPommerFan]

This is correct. He had the benefit of a year of clipboard holding, which was planned for EJ, but which obviously didn't happen. Fact remains, based upon Brees's first two years as a starter, SD was done with him. That's too quick.

 

 

 

The first sentence is precisely my point.

 

As to the second, I think I'm on record somewhere as to what a bad idea that was.

 

yes, I'm commiserating.

[TrueBlueGED]

Eleven, the Chargers had enough Patience with Brees to Draft Manning=>Rivers after his second season as a starter.

 

Unfortunately, because we decided to have shiny object syndrome in April, we won't be able to have that level of patience, we're going to have to be even MORE patient.

 

There were no viable alternatives. This year's QB class wasn't very good. And I'm sorry Liger, but you need to stop waxing poetic about QBs taken in the second half of the draft.

[LastPommerFan]

There were no viable alternatives. This year's QB class wasn't very good. And I'm sorry Liger, but you need to stop waxing poetic about QBs taken in the second half of the draft.

 

The problem isn't that we didn't draft a QB this year, It's that we can't draft a QB next year. That is a huge huge huge stupid mistake based, I am nearly certain, on an "EJ was MY pick, he'll work out" mentality.

[TrueBlueGED]

The problem isn't that we didn't draft a QB this year, It's that we can't draft a QB next year. That is a huge huge huge stupid mistake based, I am nearly certain, on an "EJ was MY pick, he'll work out" mentality.

 

Ah, gotcha. Bright side: unless Manuel is an unmitigated disaster, we wouldn't be in position to draft a high end QB anyway. Unless you consider next year's Ryan Tannehill a high end QB.

 

 

[Iron Crotch]

Ah, gotcha. Bright side: unless Manuel is an unmitigated disaster, we wouldn't be in position to draft a high end QB anyway. Unless you consider next year's Ryan Tannehill a high end QB.

 

...if only because we don't have a first round pick this coming year courtesy of trading up for Watkins.

 

Two series of the first meaningless preseason game and people are already making judgments about players? Tough crowd...

[LGR4GM]

There were no viable alternatives. This year's QB class wasn't very good. And I'm sorry Liger, but you need to stop waxing poetic about QBs taken in the second half of the draft.

EJ MANUEL SHOULD HAVE BEEN DRAFTED IN THE 2ND HALF OF THE DRAFT!

[LastPommerFan]

...if only because we don't have a first round pick this coming year courtesy of trading up for Watkins.

 

Two series of the first meaningless preseason game and people are already making judgments about players? Tough crowd...

 

My judgement is based on his play in his last 53 games.