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Place Your Bets! (Vanek, Miller trade edition)

IKnowPhysics

By IKnowPhysics
in The Aud Club

Vanek/Miller Poll  

126 members have voted

  1. 1. Will Vanek be traded? When?

    • He won't be traded, he will be resigned by the Sabres.
      31
    • He'll be traded before the first round of the 2013 draft ends.
      15
    • He'll be traded after the first round of the 2013 draft ends but before the beginning of the 2013-14 regular season.
      10
    • He'll be traded after the beginning of the 2013-14 season but before the 2014 trade deadline.
      40
    • His rights will be traded after the 2014 trade deadline OR he won't be traded at all before he turns UFA.
      12

  2. 2. Will Miller be traded? When?

    • He won't be traded, he will be resigned by the Sabres.
      13
    • He'll be traded before the first round of the 2013 draft ends.
      40
    • He'll be traded after the first round of the 2013 draft ends but before the beginning of the 2013-14 regular season.
      20
    • He'll be traded after the beginning of the 2013-14 season but before the 2014 trade deadline.
      23
    • His rights will be traded after the 2014 trade deadline OR he won't be traded at all before he turns UFA.
      12

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JJFIVEOH All Star

JJFIVEOH

Posted
Posted

People underrate defense SO much. In most sports defense is just as important. In hockey, as far as forwards go, I do think the defense is a little less important than offense, but to say that he doesn't need to work on his defense is crazy talk. To be a true, all-around top six center then he'll need to work on defense. A lot.

 

I didn't say he didn't need to work on his defense, I said at this point in time where this team will have to rely on three centers who don't even have a total of 150 games experience, the main objective is to get them acclimated to the NHL and producing offense. Somehow I just don't see the coaching staff going into preseason saying 'OK guys, two of you are rookies and one is only in your third year...... we're a rebuilding team and you are our new and future centers. Let's work on your defense'.

 

Hodgson doesn't have the offensive game to be one-dimensional. If he doesn't develop his all around game then he'll never be a legit top-2 center. He may end up a default one or two on teams like Buffalo or other bottom feeders. He'll never be a #1 or #2 on a legitimate contender unless he brings more game to the rink.

 

As far as Grigorenko and Girgensons, the ideal scenario is for both to easily surpass Hodgson over the next two to three years. These are two big bodied kids that can shape the future of this franchise if the Sabres can develop these kids and maximize their skill and size.

 

Back to Hodgson, it seems, IMO, that you are attempting to devalue the need for Hodgson to develop more of an all around game because you see in him exactly what I see. That it's just not in him.

 

No, I see you doing exactly what Lindy did. And that's trying to force these guys to improve on their weaknesses instead of working on building off their strengths.

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Bullwinkle III Top Prospect

Bullwinkle III

Posted
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Hodgson doesn't have the offensive game to be one-dimensional. If he doesn't develop his all around game then he'll never be a legit top-2 center. He may end up a default one or two on teams like Buffalo or other bottom feeders. He'll never be a #1 or #2 on a legitimate contender unless he brings more game to the rink.

 

 

+1

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deluca67 All Star

deluca67

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If you view Hodgson like the prospect that he is, you have to be psyched.

He's not 19, he's going to be 24 this season. If he is going to grow as a player it should be happening now.

I didn't say he didn't need to work on his defense, I said at this point in time where this team will have to rely on three centers who don't even have a total of 150 games experience, the main objective is to get them acclimated to the NHL and producing offense. Somehow I just don't see the coaching staff going into preseason saying 'OK guys, two of you are rookies and one is only in your third year...... we're a rebuilding team and you are our new and future centers. Let's work on your defense'.

 

 

 

No, I see you doing exactly what Lindy did. And that's trying to force these guys to improve on their weaknesses instead of working on building off their strengths.

If Hodgson is as dedicated as people have claimed then he shouldn't have to be forced into anything. If Hodgson wants to be a star in this league then he knows the way to do it is by becoming a complete hockey player. If the Sabres are to become a legitimate contender they will need complete hockey players leading this team, if you are telling me that the young group of centers they have acquired are not capable of becoming well rounded hockey players then this "rebuild" is off to a precarious start,

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LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

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If you going to have a one-dimensional forward on the top line that player needs to be off the charts in that one-dimension. Hodgson is not at the level.

Hodgson doesn't have the offensive game to be one-dimensional. If he doesn't develop his all around game then he'll never be a legit top-2 center. He may end up a default one or two on teams like Buffalo or other bottom feeders. He'll never be a #1 or #2 on a legitimate contender unless he brings more game to the rink.

 

As far as Grigorenko and Girgensons, the ideal scenario is for both to easily surpass Hodgson over the next two to three years. These are two big bodied kids that can shape the future of this franchise if the Sabres can develop these kids and maximize their skill and size.

 

Back to Hodgson, it seems, IMO, that you are attempting to devalue the need for Hodgson to develop more of an all around game because you see in him exactly what I see. That it's just not in him.

1) Hodgson isn't 1 dimensional. I'd explain that but I honestly feel it would be a waste.

2) I can think of about 8 teams off the top of my head that don't have a need Hodgson could fill. At 23yrs old (His b-day is feb he's 23 for another 7 months) and entering his first full season with the Sabres and only 3rd full year in the league, I agree that this is where we see him grow or stagnate.

3) Cody Hodgson isn't small, people need to stop implying it. As for Zemgus and Mikhail, they could surpass Cody and that is a great problem for us to have but it is far to early to tell.

4) Hodgson most definitely needs to develop an all around game. He needs to be more physical on the defensive side. That being said he has a tenacity in the offensive zone that I believe a coach should be able to translate into his defensive game.

 

This will sound like an excuse but Cody has had 3 different Coaches in the last 2 years. I think a year under 1 guy with a full training camp, summer, and season... I'm not concerned with Cody, but he has some things to prove.

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TrueBlueGED Hall of Famer

TrueBlueGED

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I didn't say he didn't need to work on his defense, I said at this point in time where this team will have to rely on three centers who don't even have a total of 150 games experience, the main objective is to get them acclimated to the NHL and producing offense. Somehow I just don't see the coaching staff going into preseason saying 'OK guys, two of you are rookies and one is only in your third year...... we're a rebuilding team and you are our new and future centers. Let's work on your defense'.

 

The problem is there's defensive minutes that have to be played, and playing them effectively can help produce offense, or at least put guys into more offensive situations. Hodgson is entering his third year, it's time for him to learn what to do in the defensive zone, if for no better reason than because Grigs is going to need the sheltered minutes.

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JJFIVEOH All Star

JJFIVEOH

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Posted

He's not 19, he's going to be 24 this season. If he is going to grow as a player it should be happening now.

 

If Hodgson is as dedicated as people have claimed then he shouldn't have to be forced into anything. If Hodgson wants to be a star in this league then he knows the way to do it is by becoming a complete hockey player. If the Sabres are to become a legitimate contender they will need complete hockey players leading this team, if you are telling me that the young group of centers they have acquired are not capable of becoming well rounded hockey players then this "rebuild" is off to a precarious start,

 

Who said Hodgson isn't thinking that? I never said that they aren't capable of becoming well rounded players. This is the third time you've put words in my mouth so I'm giving up and moving on. You're either extremely ignorant or you're just looking for an argument.

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deluca67 All Star

deluca67

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Posted

Who said Hodgson isn't thinking that? I never said that they aren't capable of becoming well rounded players. This is the third time you've put words in my mouth so I'm giving up and moving on. You're either extremely ignorant or you're just looking for an argument.

It is your own words that fail you, it is not my doing.

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  • 4 weeks later...
dudacek Hall of Famer

dudacek

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Miller gets slagged in some quarters as a whiner, or a loose cannon, or a guy who throws his teammates under the bus.

I don't see it. He is honest, analytical, a hard worker and a fierce competitor.

 

If I was the Edmonton Oilers I would have paid a bunch to bring him in this summer and push my young team over the top.

 

He's a helluva good goalie, a diffence-maker and the best leader on this team.

He's also a Buffalo Sabre.

 

He is the least of this team's problems.

I think he is going to have a great season and I hope it leads to a four-year contract extension.

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IKnowPhysics First Liner

IKnowPhysics

Posted
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Miller gets slagged in some quarters as a whiner, or a loose cannon, or a guy who throws his teammates under the bus.

I don't see it. He is honest, analytical, a hard worker and a fierce competitor.

 

If I was the Edmonton Oilers I would have paid a bunch to bring him in this summer and push my young team over the top.

 

He's a helluva good goalie, a diffence-maker and the best leader on this team.

He's also a Buffalo Sabre.

 

He is the least of this team's problems.

I think he is going to have a great season and I hope it leads to a four-year contract extension.

 

I agree with most of this, with exceptions for the italicized. He's a leader, but not the best leader. I also have some hope that he has a great season, but I have higher hopes that his status is settled before the season, not as a result of it. With the potential for ultimate and inexcusable UFA failure in the balance, there's little room for wait-and-see. The value of his future, either signed long term or traded for goodies, is much higher than anything his performance this season, however great, can provide alone. We've been over this thousands of times, you guys get it.

 

But I like your attitude and positive outlook.

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dudacek Hall of Famer

dudacek

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I think he is the best leader because the other guys with his talent don't have his drive, and the guys with his drive don't have his talent.

 

As for the other, obviously wait and see until season's end is not acceptable.

 

But what is very clear from that interview is that neither Miller, nor management are exactly sure what they have here, or Miller's fit in it (or Vanek's for that matter.) And some time will be needed to figure that out.

 

I guess a better way of saying it would have been "...leads to a four-year extension by Christmas."

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IKnowPhysics First Liner

IKnowPhysics

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I think he is the best leader because the other guys with his talent don't have his drive, and the guys with his drive don't have his talent.

 

But being driven isn't enough to be a great leader. A great leader makes that drive contagious. And talent damn sure isn't enough, as there's plenty of talented guys not cut out to be leaders. Is Miller the best leader on the Sabres? Maybe this year he will be with this roster, but he wasn't last year or the year before.

 

I have an unfounded inkling that we're going to see the status of Vanek and Miller extend through October. If the team can keep it together with this motley crew, then maybe that'll inject some life into the ideas of them staying around, otherwise it could be trade time. It's obviously within the realm of possibility that the team goes 6-11-5 and changes are made.

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That Aud Smell Hall of Famer

That Aud Smell

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Based on media reports, both 30 and 26 sound as though they're genuinely okay with still being on the team and are taking a wait and see approach to the 2013-2014 season.

 

I still would've preferred to see both of them moved prior to now. But that's not happening. So we move on.

 

The market for Vanek at the 2014 trade deadline will be there -- it will also be a fairly well-established one.

 

The market for Miller (or any goaltender) will be a less certain proposition.

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Sabre Dance Third Liner

Sabre Dance

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But being driven isn't enough to be a great leader. A great leader makes that drive contagious. And talent damn sure isn't enough, as there's plenty of talented guys not cut out to be leaders. Is Miller the best leader on the Sabres? Maybe this year he will be with this roster, but he wasn't last year or the year before.

 

 

I think Miller COULD be (and likely will be this season) a very good leader. I think that in previous seasons, there were far too many slackers in the locker room dragging down the rest of the team. Miller was one of the lone voices of reality and I think his status on the team took a drubbing because of it.

With a new coaching staff, lots of younger guys and (we hope) a new attitude, he may be listened to more closely than before. However, unless the team makes huge strides by mid-season, I'm going to guess Miller will still want to test the free-agent waters. I don't see a trade or a contract extension in his future. I could be daffy saying this, but call it a hunch.... ;)

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