FogBat Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 If you want my opinion just ask. Now that's a scary thought... Even scarier is this: we do have one thing in common - we offer up our own opinions on the board regardless if people want to read them or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 What do you mean? The hearing won't be for awhile. If the player isn't going to accept the QO this was the only play they had to be able to continue negotiating. It is a logical next step, but the QO expiring doesn't mean the sides can no longer negotiate. They can still talk as much as they want at that point, but the team doesn't have to hold up to that 10% raise anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 He's a good skater, but he has no physical game, and that looks to be the direction our defence is going. He was really streaky this season, remember when he got benched? I know he came back like an all-star for a few games after that, but that just solidifies my opinion that he is lazy and only shows up when he wants to. Not sure that's true. We brought in Regehr for this very reason. Plus Weber is a physical D man and Myers is really comming into his own in that department. We've got some toughness and the other three starters of Sekera, Leopold and Ehroff bring the offense. Ehroff also brings some physical play as well (watching some of the highlights) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 I'm thinking you just disappointed a few people. :rolleyes: I agree that he is an asset and should be treated as one (ie. do NOT walk away from him), but do you really feel he is worth $2M per? He couldn't stay in the lineup consistently on a team with a generally poor defense. And given our cap situation I don't think we have the luxury to overpay for a last pairing defenseman. I guess I haven't paid too much attention to what the non big name defensemen are getting so maybe a 5-6-7 D man is worth $2M. I'm just not sure that we can afford the luxury of paying another last pair guy that much now. Is he worth $2 mil right now? He played 76 games and was a +11. He is also only 25. It is a price that makes him easy to move if the need arises. All things considered, it wouldn't be a contract that hampers the Sabres Cap wise over the long term and the short term. So, I think he is worth $2 mil a year for 3 years. Looking at Sekera as a player and also an asset, it would be a value contract for the Sabres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwinkle Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Now that's a scary thought... Even scarier is this: we do have one thing in common - we offer up our own opinions on the board regardless if people want to read them or not. Isn't that true of everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Is he worth $2 mil right now? He played 76 games and was a +11. He is also only 25. It is a price that makes him easy to move if the need arises. All things considered, it wouldn't be a contract that hampers the Sabres Cap wise over the long term and the short term. So, I think he is worth $2 mil a year for 3 years. Looking at Sekera as a player and also an asset, it would be a value contract for the Sabres. Take a look at Luke Schenn http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/4475 About the same numbers as Shakira, is an RFA coming off a 3 million dollar contract. Hope he doesn't sign before Shakira goes to arby's. Or maybe we do hope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Take a look at Luke Schenn http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/4475 About the same numbers as Shakira, is an RFA coming off a 3 million dollar contract. Hope he doesn't sign before Shakira goes to arby's. Or maybe we do hope? Schenn has 424 hits and 284 blocked shots over the last two seasons. I like Sekera but he doesn't have any numbers like that to be a realistic comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skibum Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Can he still be traded before arbitration? It would stink to lose him to UFA if he gets a big reward. I would be OK with Gragnani taking his place and Morrisonn as the 7th man. 8 D-men is a logjam, anyway, especially when there's still talent to develop in Rochester. What is a guy like Sekera worth in trade, anyway? 3rd rounder? More (please)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Can he still be traded before arbitration? It would stink to lose him to UFA if he gets a big reward. I would be OK with Gragnani taking his place and Morrisonn as the 7th man. 8 D-men is a logjam, anyway, especially when there's still talent to develop in Rochester. What is a guy like Sekera worth in trade, anyway? 3rd rounder? More (please)? Somebody would still need to send an offer sheet to him. Another team would most likely just wait for the arbitrators decision so they don't lose any picks and wouldn't have to negotiate a contract with him. (Assuming Buffalo doesn't want him). A team could give us some picks for his rights, but that means they get the arbitration decison too) Sekera would prolly fetch a 3rd round pick. (Most 2 million/ 3 million guys would). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Is he worth $2 mil right now? He played 76 games and was a +11. He is also only 25. It is a price that makes him easy to move if the need arises. All things considered, it wouldn't be a contract that hampers the Sabres Cap wise over the long term and the short term. So, I think he is worth $2 mil a year for 3 years. Looking at Sekera as a player and also an asset, it would be a value contract for the Sabres. Good post. I agree with your valuation and that he is an asset that shouldn't be unloaded at a fire sale price. I also think he has a ton of upside and is likely to flourish as a 3rd pairing guy without much pressure on him. Can he still be traded before arbitration? It would stink to lose him to UFA if he gets a big reward. I would be OK with Gragnani taking his place and Morrisonn as the 7th man. 8 D-men is a logjam, anyway, especially when there's still talent to develop in Rochester. What is a guy like Sekera worth in trade, anyway? 3rd rounder? More (please)? This is really the key question. Would you rather bite a small bullet and pay him $2MM x 3 years, or dump him for a so-so pick? I'd much rather keep him, especially with daddy warbucks running things now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 SPECTOR’S NOTE: Deadline for filing for arbitration is 5 pm ET today. I’ve been asked several times in recent days if a player who files for arbitration, or is taken to arbitration by a team, can be traded. No, they cannot. Once the arbitration hearing is over, the team has seven days to decide if they’ll accept or reject the arbiter’s decision. Also, don’t forget that most players who file for arbitration or are taken to arbitration by a team rarely end up going through the process, as in most cases deals are reached prior to the hearings. http://spectorshockey.net/wordpress/2011/07/05/latest-nhl-rumors-july-5-2011/ Also, no word on Gragnani? Does this mean he has accepted his Qualifying Offer? Seems as though he would have elected for arbitration if they were working on an extension. This is really the key question. Would you rather bite a small bullet and pay him $2MM x 3 years, or dump him for a so-so pick? I'd much rather keep him, especially with daddy warbucks running things now. Agreed, $2M really isn't that bad a price for him, especially if it is over a 3 year deal taking some UFA time from Sekera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Schenn has 424 hits and 284 blocked shots over the last two seasons. I like Sekera but he doesn't have any numbers like that to be a realistic comparable. Have we seen anything from previous arbitrations though that makes it look like they go by anything other than offensive numbers? I'd love to see how that actual process goes, but I get the feeling hits and blocked shots get buried underneath the other more visible stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Good post. I agree with your valuation and that he is an asset that shouldn't be unloaded at a fire sale price. I also think he has a ton of upside and is likely to flourish as a 3rd pairing guy without much pressure on him. This is really the key question. Would you rather bite a small bullet and pay him $2MM x 3 years, or dump him for a so-so pick? I'd much rather keep him, especially with daddy warbucks running things now. I think it's going to come down to the award; if it is something that can fit under the cap (assuming Morrissonn gets waived/sent down and Kotalik gets the same when Pommer is ready), the team will keep him. 2Mx2? I'd keep him. (I don't think arbitrators can award more than 2 years when the player files--and 1 when the team files. Taro? Chz?) 2.5Mx2? That gets real tough. Have we seen anything from previous arbitrations though that makes it look like they go by anything other than offensive numbers? I'd love to see how that actual process goes, but I get the feeling hits and blocked shots get buried underneath the other more visible stats. Excellent question--how many true defensive D-men or Selke types have filed for arb? I'll bet not many. (But I don't know.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 I think it's going to come down to the award; if it is something that can fit under the cap (assuming Morrissonn gets waived/sent down and Kotalik gets the same when Pommer is ready), the team will keep him. 2Mx2? I'd keep him. (I don't think arbitrators can award more than 2 years when the player files--and 1 when the team files. Taro? Chz?) 2.5Mx2? That gets real tough. Excellent question--how many true defensive D-men or Selke types have filed for arb? I'll bet not many. (But I don't know.) Shakira has the option of filing for a one or two year arby. he's a group 2 RFA so he can't decline the second year, as a group 3 could, if he is awarded a two year deal. IMO, he went for a one year deal, even though he wants a longer term contract, he wants a proving year, before Myers gets re-signed, proves his worth and gets the long term deal next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Have we seen anything from previous arbitrations though that makes it look like they go by anything other than offensive numbers? I'd love to see how that actual process goes, but I get the feeling hits and blocked shots get buried underneath the other more visible stats. Performance, statistics. Injuries and illnesses How long they've been around Contribution to team success and public appeal Salary and performance of comparable players I'd say "how much, how often, who notices, compared to "x", defines the award" What is the value of this player to this club. how much would another club pay this player. I'd say 2.5 million tops, but B-lo's looking at 3.5-4 million for two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 SPECTOR’S NOTE: Deadline for filing for arbitration is 5 pm ET today. I’ve been asked several times in recent days if a player who files for arbitration, or is taken to arbitration by a team, can be traded. No, they cannot. Once the arbitration hearing is over, the team has seven days to decide if they’ll accept or reject the arbiter’s decision. Also, don’t forget that most players who file for arbitration or are taken to arbitration by a team rarely end up going through the process, as in most cases deals are reached prior to the hearings. BLARGH!!!! Worst news I heard all day. Now who do we include in the trade with Ennis and Hecht for that #1 Centerman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 SPECTOR’S NOTE: Deadline for filing for arbitration is 5 pm ET today. I’ve been asked several times in recent days if a player who files for arbitration, or is taken to arbitration by a team, can be traded. No, they cannot. Once the arbitration hearing is over, the team has seven days to decide if they’ll accept or reject the arbiter’s decision. Also, don’t forget that most players who file for arbitration or are taken to arbitration by a team rarely end up going through the process, as in most cases deals are reached prior to the hearings. BLARGH!!!! Worst news I heard all day. Now who do we include in the trade with Ennis and Hecht for that #1 Centerman? This was my thought right off the bat. He doesn't want to get traded. He knew he was the odd man out after the Ehrhoff signing, so this gives him some measure of control over the situation. He could hold out till the day before his hearing next month and sign whatever contract is on the table, thus protecting himself during the next few weeks of trading. If he get's to arbitration, the award will be well over $1,042,173, so the sabres can just walk away if they don't like it, and he gets to be an UFA, He'll make a lot less money than the arbitration award, but he gets to pick where to play. If the sabres accept the arbitration award it will very likely be an untradable overpriced contract. This decision is all about giving himself control about where he plays, not so much about how much he gets paid to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 This was my thought right off the bat. He doesn't want to get traded. He knew he was the odd man out after the Ehrhoff signing, so this gives him some measure of control over the situation. He could hold out till the day before his hearing next month and sign whatever contract is on the table, thus protecting himself during the next few weeks of trading. If he get's to arbitration, the award will be well over $1,042,173, so the sabres can just walk away if they don't like it, and he gets to be an UFA, He'll make a lot less money than the arbitration award, but he gets to pick where to play. If the sabres accept the arbitration award it will very likely be an untradable overpriced contract. This decision is all about giving himself control about where he plays, not so much about how much he gets paid to do so. What do you consider overpriced for Sekera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Hmmm. Methinks we might be better off if we walk away from any award he's given and he becomes a UFA. Why would you do that??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 What do you consider overpriced for Sekera? My guess is he becomes untradeable at $3M. Overpriced would be anything north of $2.5M. I imagine he signs a deal in the $2.25M range before arbitration if the team trades for a center without him in the package going out. If no move is made, I imagine he goes to arbitration to protect himself, gets someting between $2.75M and $3.25M for a 1 year deal and the team makes the call to accept or walk based on it's cap situation. He had a career year in assists and TOI, so I expect the award to be large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 My guess is he becomes untradeable at $3M. Overpriced would be anything north of $2.5M. I imagine he signs a deal in the $2.25M range before arbitration if the team trades for a center without him in the package going out. If no move is made, I imagine he goes to arbitration to protect himself, gets someting between $2.75M and $3.25M for a 1 year deal and the team makes the call to accept or walk based on it's cap situation. He had a career year in assists and TOI, so I expect the award to be large. I think you are about right on those numbers. Although personally dont feel like that would be overpriced in light of what some other players on the team are making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 I think you are about right on those numbers. Although personally dont feel like that would be overpriced in light of what some other players on the team are making. absolutely, and I'm not saying i'd be terribly upset if the sabres ended up accepting a $3M deal, as long as it fit under the cap and didn't "New Jersey" us if we have any injuries and need to call people up. It'd only be for 1 year, and defensive depth of his caliber is never a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted July 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Then give him the money that Campbell got in his 5th year, 2 years, 1.5 million per. Campbell had 12 goals and 44 points in his contract year. Sekera had a nice small string of games and flashes here and there but had 3 goals and 22 points. And don't tell me his physical side makes up for his lack of offense, he doesn't have one. I'd assume that Shakira is looking for more years, prolly three or four. @2 mill cap hit. Sabres looking at 1.5 mill per for 2 years. i don't think the analysis is that facile, but even if it were, we should be adjusting those campbell #'s for an increased salary cap. the ratio of $1.5M <><><><> $X ----- <><><><> ----- $44M <><><><> $64M yields an annual cap hit of $2.18M. that actually sounds just about right. if you were going to pay for a year of his UFA status (not sure how long he must wait for that - i think someone else said a 3-year deal would subsume one such year), maybe you're talking $7M over 3 years (AAV of $2.33M) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 i think $3 m would be ridiculous for Sekera. It was certainly his best season of his career, but 29 points doesn't scream dollar signs for an offensive defenseman. I guess it depends how arbitration works-- do they look at his play LAST season, or do they look at his play over the course of his career? If based on the latter I would expect around $1.75-$2 mil. If it's based on just last season, $3m is not out of the question I guess.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 absolutely, and I'm not saying i'd be terribly upset if the sabres ended up accepting a $3M deal, as long as it fit under the cap and didn't "New Jersey" us if we have any injuries and need to call people up. It'd only be for 1 year, and defensive depth of his caliber is never a bad thing. Right, I think he still has some upside and is still pretty young. He logged as much ice time as other Dman such as Bieksa and Regehr...these are things that matter in arbitration. My take is that he signs before arbitration and could become trade bait along with an overpriced forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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