SarasotaSabre Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 give it a rest? You are the one who started it with your partisan chicanery. Only in your world would you find the opportunity to throw a jab where in reality this entire operation & outcome should be thought of as a victory for the American people and way of life, no matter what side of the aisle one happens to be on. I commended Obama for his courage & decisiveness in pulling the trigger and believe that's where the conversation should end. If you feel the need to seek some warped pleasure by politicizing this event, go right ahead. Pretty sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarasotaSabre Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 1. You're referring to two different jobs (Finding Osama, the War in Iraq). 2. The "Mission Accomplished" banner was requested by the crew of the ship, which was returning home from combat. The WH shouldn't have gone with it but it shouldn't have become the silly talking point that it did. thank you for inserting facts into the equation, well-done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 give it a rest. when someone says a job is done, and then 8 years later someone else actually does it, they deserve a jab. FDR never would have hung a banner that said "Mission Accomplished" if they didn't have Hitler in a bag. (not that the mission is actually accomplished) The same people (relatively) have been working those 8 years to find and terminate bin Laden. If you were to listen to them (before yesterday), you'd know they didn't consider the job done. That whole presser has been clarified ten ways to Sunday, but it's pretty easy to buy into the partisan POV if you want to, isn't it? In warfare, there are virtually countless missions run. Why let semantics get in the way of a good jab? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Burial at sea. Nice touch. I hope they chummed the water first. If not, he's crab food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 So they shot him through the eye. Now that's a Seal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 So they shot him through the eye. Now that's a Seal! I read two shots above the left eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedesessed Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 "Osama is dead. E5" :lol: :lol: :lol: :worthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 So they shot him through the eye. Now that's a Seal! Hopefully the brown eye!! As for all the political conjecture, can we just be happy this ###### is gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Dryden Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 1. You're referring to two different jobs (Finding Osama, the War in Iraq). 2. The "Mission Accomplished" banner was requested by the crew of the ship, which was returning home from combat. The WH shouldn't have gone with it but it shouldn't have become the silly talking point that it did. Good points--but the politicalization of war and everything else was a hallmark of the Bush Administration. Bush sat in the back of a military aircraft with his flight suit on to preen for the cameras and to say the war in Iraq was won. So it was not over Bin Laden, but it was to gain political points over a war that was far from over. His approval ratings went sky-high. He knew what he was doing. Fact is many Republicans blamed Clinton for 9/11, when Bush was on the job. OK. They want credit for Bush today when revenge was served cold, but the Administration failed for 7 years to find Bin Laden. Those are the facts. Spin as you like. You don't think it's fair to give Obama credit--that's cool. But in your heart you know if Bush/Cheney got this done, you'd be falling all over them. Just like with the economy---Republicans blame Obama for the current state of the world and deficits. But Bush entered office with the budget IN SURPLUS that the Clinton administration had worked hard to create, and over 8 years with lower taxes and dramatically increased spending-- with the full aid and support of a Republican Congress-- created deficits of the likes never seen before. He just pi$#ed it all away. And then, as a result of lax regulatory policies, the economy went off the cliff in 2008--before Obama was elected-- that required trillions more to just keep our heads above water or else we would have had a depression that would have made the 1930s look like a cake walk. You want to blame Obama--fine. But don't make up facts to support it--give your opinion based on the truth. You can have whatever opinions you like, but you are not entitled to your own set of facts. I know it is spin all the time in the world today--but there are some facts that just can't be ignored. You can dislike Obama--perfectly fair--but don't rewrite history to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Crap, I'm getting sucked in... Good points--but the politicalization of war and everything else was a hallmark of the Bush Administration. Bush sat in the back of a military aircraft with his flight suit on to preen for the cameras and to say the war in Iraq was won. So it was not over Bin Laden, but it was to gain political points over a war that was far from over. His approval ratings went sky-high. He knew what he was doing. Yep. Eisenhower never wore a uniform while in office, and he masterminded the war in Europe. Kennedy never wore a uniform in office, and he had a purple heart and a Navy and Marine Corps Medal for saving at least one of his crew. Bush Senior earned a Distinguished Flying Cross in WW2, never wore a uniform. Just like with the economy---Republicans blame Obama for the current state of the world and deficits. But Bush entered office with the budget IN SURPLUS that the Clinton administration had worked hard to create, and over 8 years with lower taxes and dramatically increased spending-- with the full aid and support of a Republican Congress-- created deficits of the likes never seen before. He just pi$#ed it all away. And then, as a result of lax regulatory policies, the economy went off the cliff in 2008--before Obama was elected-- that required trillions more to just keep our heads above water or else we would have had a depression that would have made the 1930s look like a cake walk. You want to blame Obama--fine. But don't make up facts to support it--give your opinion based on the truth. Well, to be fair a lot of that was the dot-com boom that popped in 2001. The republicans had to keep up, so they created the housing boom which popped in 2008. Bastards, the lot of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 You can have whatever opinions you like, but you are not entitled to your own set of facts. I know it is spin all the time in the world today--but there are some facts that just can't be ignored. You can dislike Obama--perfectly fair--but don't rewrite history to do it. OK, but you're re-writing my own posts as you make this point. I *DO* think Obama deserves credit for this operation and said so. Fact is many Republicans blamed Clinton for 9/11, when Bush was on the job. OK. They want credit for Bush today when revenge was served cold, but the Administration failed for 7 years to find Bin Laden. Those are the facts. Spin as you like. You don't think it's fair to give Obama credit--that's cool. But in your heart you know if Bush/Cheney got this done, you'd be falling all over them. 1. A lot of Democrats blamed Bush for 9/11 as well. To this day I see people bring up the "Bin Laden Determined to Strike Within U.S." memo from before 9/11 as proof of something. Nothing in that memo was new information; we'd known for years that OBL was determined to attack the U.S. 2. Can you say the Bush Administration failed when they got the ball rolling on the leads that led to this operation? The intel that led to yesterday goes back to 2007 at the latest. Yes, we should have had him at Tora Bora, but once he made it out it was just going to take as long as it takes. Just like with the economy---Republicans blame Obama for the current state of the world and deficits. But Bush entered office with the budget IN SURPLUS that the Clinton administration had worked hard to create, and over 8 years with lower taxes and dramatically increased spending-- with the full aid and support of a Republican Congress-- created deficits of the likes never seen before. He just pi$#ed it all away. And then, as a result of lax regulatory policies, the economy went off the cliff in 2008--before Obama was elected-- that required trillions more to just keep our heads above water or else we would have had a depression that would have made the 1930s look like a cake walk. You want to blame Obama--fine. But don't make up facts to support it--give your opinion based on the truth. The surplus left to Bush came from Clinton AND a Republican Congress. All budgets originate in the House of Representatives. So technically a divided government worked together for those budgets -- and they were still only made possible because our country was experiencing a once in a generation tech boom (that fell apart early in the 21st century, unfortunately). Also, how were "lax regulatory policies" the fault of Bush? Which government regulations did Bush ease that led to the housing boom and bust? (Be specific.) The Bush Administration did push for increased oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (Here.) but those efforts were blocked (and not by Bush's own party). The truth is, both parties were happy to talk up the "success" of all the increased home ownership in the decade leading up to the housing bust in 2008. We also aren't finished with this recession. Unemployment remains high, inflation is happening, energy prices are going up, our national debt is past $14,000,000,000,000, and we're running $1,400,000,000,000 annual deficits. We're in danger of having our credit rating downgraded by both Moody's and S&P, and GDP growth from each of the past 7 quarters has been disappointing. Things are NOT going well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Well, to be fair a lot of that was the dot-com boom that popped in 2001. The republicans had to keep up, so they created the housing boom which popped in 2008. Bastards, the lot of them. How did the Republicans create the housing boom? :blink: The housing boom was an unintended consequence of the relaxed lending standards for two government-sponsored entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, that both parties were willing to crow about until it was too late. "Increased home ownership" was a talking point about how policies were successful going back to the 1990's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Dryden Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 How did the Republicans create the housing boom? :blink: The housing boom was an unintended consequence of the relaxed lending standards for two government-sponsored entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, that both parties were willing to crow about until it was too late. "Increased home ownership" was a talking point about how policies were successful going back to the 1990's. Blaming Fannie and Freddie as the primary culprits of the 2008 financial crisis is total BS and a product of the Republican spin machine. I don't have time to go into it all--but go read Too Big to Fail and the Big Short, and you'll get some insigt into what happened, and Freddie and Fannie were pimples on the ass of all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Good points--but the politicalization of war and everything else was a hallmark of the Bush Administration. Show me a war that wasn't politicized for the benefit of the administration in power. As for all the rest. Let's save it for a different thread on a different day. Today is about bringing justice to a man who is responsible for thousands of deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Dryden Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 OK, but you're re-writing my own posts as you make this point. I *DO* think Obama deserves credit for this operation and said so. 1. A lot of Democrats blamed Bush for 9/11 as well. To this day I see people bring up the "Bin Laden Determined to Strike Within U.S." memo from before 9/11 as proof of something. Nothing in that memo was new information; we'd known for years that OBL was determined to attack the U.S. 2. Can you say the Bush Administration failed when they got the ball rolling on the leads that led to this operation? The intel that led to yesterday goes back to 2007 at the latest. Yes, we should have had him at Tora Bora, but once he made it out it was just going to take as long as it takes. The surplus left to Bush came from Clinton AND a Republican Congress. All budgets originate in the House of Representatives. So technically a divided government worked together for those budgets -- and they were still only made possible because our country was experiencing a once in a generation tech boom (that fell apart early in the 21st century, unfortunately). Also, how were "lax regulatory policies" the fault of Bush? Which government regulations did Bush ease that led to the housing boom and bust? (Be specific.) The Bush Administration did push for increased oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (Here.) but those efforts were blocked (and not by Bush's own party). The truth is, both parties were happy to talk up the "success" of all the increased home ownership in the decade leading up to the housing bust in 2008. We also aren't finished with this recession. Unemployment remains high, inflation is happening, energy prices are going up, our national debt is past $14,000,000,000,000, and we're running $1,400,000,000,000 annual deficits. We're in danger of having our credit rating downgraded by both Moody's and S&P, and GDP growth from each of the past 7 quarters has been disappointing. Things are NOT going well. Things are very slowly improving--but I totally agree we have a long way to go. But to fix things you have to be honest, and the primary deficit creators were Bush and the Republicans in the 2000s. If you won't admit how we got into this-- tax cuts coupled with two wars(one voluntary) and a big prescription drug plan-- then you will never get out of this. Blaming Obama exclusively, or even primarily, for the current situation is simply denial by folks who just don't want to like him. It's OK not to like him, but not based on falsities--that's just silly. And I don't think Democrats "blame" Bush for 9/11-- I don't. But he did not stop it either, and the way he milked 9/11 to get reelected, as if he should get credit for something he did vis 9/11, is equally absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Dryden Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Show me a war that wasn't politicized for the benefit of the administration in power. As for all the rest. Let's save it for a different thread on a different day. Today is about bringing justice to a man who is responsible for thousands of deaths. Of course-- war has always stirred patriotism and rallied support for the executive. Abusing that is a crime in my view--and it is nothing new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Of course-- war has always stirred patriotism and rallied support for the executive. Abusing that is a crime in my view--and it is nothing new. Crime? That's more than a little hyperbole, eh? You'll have to go all the way back to 1812 to start pressing charges then. I wasn't a Bush supporter but it's really not fair to single out Bush as doing this when they all did it. And they all will in the future too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 GERONIMO " Bad boys Whatcha want, watcha want Whatcha gonna do When Sheriff John Brown come for you Tell me Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do Yeaheah Bad boys, bad boys Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do When they come for you Nobody naw give you no break Police naw give you no break Soldier naw give you no break Not even you 'idren naw give you no break Hey hey Why did you have to act so mean Don't you know you're human being Born of a mother with the love of a father Reflections come and reflections go I know sometimes you want to let go Hey hey hey I know sometimes you want to let go " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrix31 Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Can't we put all this political ###### aside just for a few effin' days and be thrilled that the biggest son of a bitch in the world is now dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Can't we put all this political ###### aside just for a few effin' days and be thrilled that the biggest son of a bitch in the world is now dead? Yeah. I got sucked in too. I'm done. :blush: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Show me a war that wasn't politicized for the benefit of the administration in power. As for all the rest. Let's save it for a different thread on a different day. Today is about bringing justice to a man who is responsible for thousands of deaths. George W. Bush is being brought to justice today? Sorry. I couldn't resist. People conveniently ignore the fact that "Shock and Awe" killed WAY more innocent civilians than the 9/11 attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 George W. Bush is being brought to justice today? Sorry. I couldn't resist. People conveniently ignore the fact that "Shock and Awe" killed WAY more innocent civilians than the 9/11 attacks. [Charlie Brown Voice] AUUGHH !!!!! [/Charlie Brown Voice] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 "history is written by the victors" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braedon Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Can't we put all this political ###### aside just for a few effin' days and be thrilled that the biggest son of a bitch in the world is now dead? Sizzle started it :nana: Kidding obviously, actually quite impressed by your ability to stay out of this mess of a thread. Yep. Eisenhower never wore a uniform while in office, and he masterminded the war in Europe. Kennedy never wore a uniform in office, and he had a purple heart and a Navy and Marine Corps Medal for saving at least one of his crew. Bush Senior earned a Distinguished Flying Cross in WW2, never wore a uniform. Very true, but rallying around the president still occurs (I think the poli-sci term is 'rally around the flag'?). I remember reading somewhere that it happened for Kennedy during the Bay of Pigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted May 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Guys, can we all stay focused on the thread topic? I'm certain most, if not all, have strong opinions about the current occupant of the WH and the former occupant as well (and so on and so forth). There is plenty of time (and potential future threads) to discuss those 2. But this isn't really the place for a GB/BO debate. If it continues to devolve into one, the thread will be closed. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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