Sabres sign Connor Timmins to a 2 year 2.2 Million Dollar AAV contract

[bob_sauve28]

35 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

This place is such a shitshow these days.  

It's the dog days of summer with a 14 year draught. Grab your sh it and and start throwing! 

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Another 1 'n' Connor !!

What's up with that ??

[shrader]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

 

You're bang on with this.

Their actions show they think Timmins is helluvalot better than I do.

This is a injury-plagued player who has played 42, 37, 6, 33, 25 and 68 games respectively in each of his 6 pro seasons. He has a history of solid Corsi numbers but doesn't seem to add much in terms of production or physical play.

They've chosen to invest 2 years, $4.4M and a 2nd-round draft pick in him. And giving away Clifton was not necessary under the cap in order to make that happen.

Their valuation makes no sense to me. 

Do you know how much of those games played numbers are injuries vs being the 7th guy on a depth chart? I was just looking at his injury history and I didn’t really see what I’d call plagued by injuries. There was a bout with mini and then a full year lost to knee surgery. The rest of the stuff listed didn’t add up in my opinion with the games played numbers. So that makes me wonder about the depth chart. 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, shrader said:

So are we still outraged and using the arbitration filing as a sign of front office incompetence?

He got a bit more than I expected but Adams avoided arbitration.   You tell us, are you outraged?  

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, shrader said:

Do you know how much of those games played numbers are injuries vs being the 7th guy on a depth chart? I was just looking at his injury history and I didn’t really see what I’d call plagued by injuries. There was a bout with mini and then a full year lost to knee surgery. The rest of the stuff listed didn’t add up in my opinion with the games played numbers. So that makes me wonder about the depth chart. 

I'm pretty sure you're correct: there was a fair share of healthy scratches in there:

 

[That Aud Smell]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

We're gonna <> finish around 83-85pts. Adams will make excuses, Ruff will retire, Appert will be coach (see now I'm making assumptions), and we'll lose again next year. Rinse and repeat. 

[Eleven]

4 hours ago, Taro T said:

Now go get Roslovic or make another move.

GOALTENDER.  

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, Eleven said:

GOALTENDER.  

Would love to see it.  But can't see them going that route.

[JoeSchmoe]

7 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

How does Victor Oloffson sound? 😬

I'd do it, even though there's no way Oloffson does. He had a really good season last year offensively and was one of the best ExG% on Vegas. No way he pulls those numbers unless he seriously fixed his defensive game.

He may be a better PP player than JJP and would do well on our 3rd line or as a 2nd line fill-in.

[shrader]

1 hour ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I'd do it, even though there's no way Oloffson does. He had a really good season last year offensively and was one of the best ExG% on Vegas. No way he pulls those numbers unless he seriously fixed his defensive game.

He may be a better PP player than JJP and would do well on our 3rd line or as a 2nd line fill-in.

And here he is probably staring a PTO in the face. It doesn’t look like last season did much for him around the league. It can’t be hard for anyone to work in a guy like that on another million dollar deal. 

[PromoTheRobot]

4 hours ago, Eleven said:

GOALTENDER.  

What do we do with Alex Lyon?

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

What do we do with Alex Lyon?

Keep him and trade away Luukkonnen.

 

Or head into camp with 4 goalies, knowing Levi can be sent down.  And trade whichever guy ends up the #3 at that point for what you can get.

[inkman]

9 hours ago, Bangarang said:

This is a bottom 5 team next year and the only joy I'll get from it will be if Terry finally cleans house.

By “next year”, do you mean 10 weeks from now? 

[PerreaultForever]

I just don't think this guy is any better than Clifton but we shall see. 

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I just don't think this guy is any better than Clifton but we shall see. 

He costs $1.1M less though.  

[JohnC]

48 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

He costs $1.1M less though.  

When a player falls into Lindy's disfavor the outcome is predictable. The player will see limited ice time or be benched and then sent packing. Both Clifton and Docker fell into this vulnerable category. Lindy seems to be an old school coach who when he makes a judgment on a player, it sticks. There are coaches who try to utilize and maximize talent on hand while there are coaches whose approach leans toward my way or the highway. 

Taking an overview perspective, from the ownership to the GM's office to the coaching staff in general, everything seems to be third-rate. When your boat is taking on water, how do you stay afloat when the bucket you are using to clear the water out has holes in it? The never-ending cycle of futility.  

[dudacek]

Connor Clifton’s game under Lindy didn’t actually change much in terms of counting stats and how he was used. 

Ice time 16:33 -> 16:03

Points 18 -> 16

Hits 204 -> 208

Takeaways 27 -> 26

Giveaways 24 -> 67

Blocked shots 117 -> 116

Possession 44% -> 40%

xGF% 41% -> 36.6%

GF% 46% -> 36.6%

PK GA/60 8.26 -> 8.08

Penalties drawn -7 -> -11

Analytically, he was an absolute mess. He was terrible in his first year and even worse in his second.

Edited 7 hours ago by dudacek

[DarthEbriate]

Lots of 3rd pairing d-zone defensemen don’t have great stats. But the telling one is that jump from 1:1 turnover ratio to 1:3. 

Those extra 40 turnovers destroyed whatever chance at fancy possession stats he had. 

[Drag0nDan]

51 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Lots of 3rd pairing d-zone defensemen don’t have great stats. But the telling one is that jump from 1:1 turnover ratio to 1:3. 

Those extra 40 turnovers destroyed whatever chance at fancy possession stats he had. 

Blindly passing it up the boards to no one in particular leads to turnovers?  Who knew?!

[krakensabr56390]

 

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Connor Clifton’s game under Lindy didn’t actually change much in terms of counting stats and how he was used. 

Ice time 16:33 -> 16:03

Points 18 -> 16

Hits 204 -> 208

Takeaways 27 -> 26

Giveaways 24 -> 67

Blocked shots 117 -> 116

Possession 44% -> 40%

xGF% 41% -> 36.6%

GF% 46% -> 36.6%

PK GA/60 8.26 -> 8.08

Penalties drawn -7 -> -11

Analytically, he was an absolute mess. He was terrible in his first year and even worse in his second.

His first season he had a very bad start, it didn't help that pucks were bouncing off of him and going into the net or that he fell down twice in key situations.  In the John Scott interview he said had trouble learning Granato's "system" and playing on the left side with EJ on his right.    He played pretty well after a few months and turned around his +/- from something like a -9 to a +12.   I was hopeful for him in year two but his performance under Lindy was another mixed bag and his TOI was cut by the end of the season.   Adams didn't want to pay out $3.3M for another year of Clifton.  It took a 2nd round pick to get out of it.   I did like Clifton's toughness and he made no excuses and held himself accountable in the interview.   He came to Buffalo thinking he could help them take the next step but they needed (and still need)  much more than a 3rd line defender to fix all the team weaknesses.  

[PromoTheRobot]

17 hours ago, Taro T said:

Keep him and trade away Luukkonnen.

 

Or head into camp with 4 goalies, knowing Levi can be sent down.  And trade whichever guy ends up the #3 at that point for what you can get.

What do you expect to get for UPL when we all think he's crap? I'm really asking. If you're a team giving up on him, what do you actually expect another team to offer you?

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

Connor Clifton’s game under Lindy didn’t actually change much in terms of counting stats and how he was used. 

Ice time 16:33 -> 16:03

Points 18 -> 16

Hits 204 -> 208

Takeaways 27 -> 26

Giveaways 24 -> 67

Blocked shots 117 -> 116

Possession 44% -> 40%

xGF% 41% -> 36.6%

GF% 46% -> 36.6%

PK GA/60 8.26 -> 8.08

Penalties drawn -7 -> -11

Analytically, he was an absolute mess. He was terrible in his first year and even worse in his second.

So you are concluding that from a contract and performance standpoint that he was a poor free agent acquisition? What do you expect that KA was going to get from him when he signed him? 

[dudacek]

42 minutes ago, JohnC said:

So you are concluding that from a contract and performance standpoint that he was a poor free agent acquisition? What do you expect that KA was going to get from him when he signed him? 

He turned out to be a terrible signing.

I knew what kind of player we were getting and hoped the risk aspect of his game would be outweighed by the reward and he would settle into a solid #5 for us.

Turned out he was largely a creation of the Boston system and the players he was surrounded with and is actually a 6/7.

We should have paid more attention to the analytics and less to the character references.

Edited 1 hour ago by dudacek

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

What do you expect to get for UPL when we all think he's crap? I'm really asking. If you're a team giving up on him, what do you actually expect another team to offer you?

Don't expect to get much at all for him.  And it IS possbile that the lightbulb will click on and stay on for him and he'll be not just a servicable goalie but an actual honest to goodness good one.

But, at this point, they really shouldn't be worrying about what they'd get in return for UPL or Lyon (or even the guy that could be their future); but rather what do they need to give up to get a sure fire (well, as sure fire as such a thing is in this league) top 10 goalie.  If they had one of those, a playoff spot would be theirs to lose, not theirs to steal like it is now.

Also, if they did get another goalie (and we all know they won't, but will state this anyhow) they should keep all 4 into TC and see if a goalie gets injured somewhere else in TC.  Maybe for once, the puck luck will bounce the Sabres way, and instead of getting a 2nd rounder for a guy that could be useful they might get a 1st or a legit NHLer for the odd man out.

Goalies are weird and there aren't enough legit goalies to fully go around, so the market for goalies is always weird in itself.  Heck, the Avs managed to trade Georgiev last year and he was absolute hot trash when San Jose took him.  Even bad goalies on bad contracts can get moved.