Sabres have elected arbitration with Byram

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, JohnC said:

If he were only getting futures for offers it certainly would be considered trash offers from a Sabre perspective. 
 

 What seems to be developing is that currently the return isn’t as high as hoped. And it seems BB’s contract expectations are not being met by the market. So it might be in the player’s interest to bet on himself by signing a short team deal and improve his future market value. And it would be better for the Sabres to have him on the team, even if for the short term, rather than peddle him for less than perceived value. This can be a situation where individual interests mesh.

It's not "trash" though. It's how deals get done. Not all teams want the same things. 

Let me give you a hypothetical to explain. A team like San Jose wants players because they feel they are ready to move up. They'd love a guy like Byram. What they have to offer was a cupboard full of picks and prospects. That's step 1. Then a team like Dallas was up against the cap so they might love some high end picks and prospects for one of their contracts. That's how you do it. 

Kevyn Adams seems incapable of seeing multiple things at the same time and how they can interact. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 If you can't get value in a hockey trade for Byram, what are you getting for picks? Sounds to me if you're converting Byram to picks and then a trade, you are losing value and will end up with less.

I think you can actually get extra value. Say you get a first, a second and a prospect for Byram (which feels about right to me). You flip that first and second and maybe a lower pick of your own for a forward you still have that prospect. Or maybe a lower level roster player. These are all hypotheticals but this sort of deal does happen all the time. 

[OrangeSeatVertigo]

19 hours ago, dudacek said:

If they actually go to arbitration, it wil mean if two things:

Byram chooses one year and next summer puts himself into the same position Reinhart did to force a trade with significantly more leverage than he had this summer.

Or he chooses a 2-year reward and marches himself directly to UFA.

so many Sabres just want to get out any way they can

[PerreaultForever]

9 minutes ago, OrangeSeatVertigo said:

so many Sabres just want to get out any way they can

wouldn't you?

[dudacek]

8 minutes ago, OrangeSeatVertigo said:

so many Sabres just want to get out any way they can

With Byram I think it’s about getting paid.

We talk about him wanting the opportunity of being on a top PP, but not about the reason why he wants to be on a top PP: defencemen need points to get paid and they don’t get points away from power play.

Switch Byram out for Evan Bouchard the past few years and tell me which one is likelier to be making $10M

[nfreeman]

It just feels 90% likely that Byram will take the 1-year deal and start counting the days until he can force a trade next summer.

Great job, KA!

[Taro T]

27 minutes ago, jad1 said:

I don't think that Byram wants to sign a long term deal with the Sabres because A. It's the Sabres (he's played in the Finals and probably wants to get back there) and B. He sees himself as a 1D and doesn't want to spend his career losing power play minutes to Dahlin and Power.

The best thing for Byram's career is to be traded to a (good) team that sees him as a 1D.  Adams is having a difficult time doing that. (Not a huge slam on Adams for that; there are legit reasons that is not happening).

The second best thing for Byram is to get to UFA as soon as possible, which rules out a longer deal with the Sabres.

Unlike Peterka, don't believe that Byram really really wants out of Buffalo.  IF they'd meet his contract request, expect he'd be fine staying.  Give him $9MM x 8 years and he'd sign.  Don't forget, he's had concussion issues in Colorado; he could be 1 hit away from not getting another contract after this one.

And, agree, all things being equal, Byram wants to be THE man on a team's backend.  Thing is, in order to get that opportunity, he needs to go to a team that has a bad D corps.  Personally believe he's a #2, so to be a team's #1 he needs to be on a team without one or a high end 2.  And maybe he becomes a 1, but he isn't there yet and may never be.

From having seen him speak to the fans a couple of times, he seems to be a fairly happy go lucky guy.  So, maybe he won't hate being in Buffalo should he get in writing from the team a listing of everything they see wrong with his game and all the reasons he shouldn't be paid what he's hoping for; that, coupled with knowing the team is ok with trading him for the right deal could create a severely toxic environment for someone that isn't capable of seeing the bright side of events/life.

[SwampD]

7 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

It just feels 90% likely that Byram will take the 1-year deal and start counting the days until he can force a trade next summer.

Great job, KA!

Here's to hoping that we get a year's worth of motivated play cuz he's playing for his next contract.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I feel a sign and deal trade coming.  🙂  See Marner.   The Sabres can re-sign him for 8 years and then trade him.  If traded before he re-signing, the new team can only give him a 7 year deal.   

 

[Porous Five Hole]

Assuming the Sabres don’t move Byram prior to the arbitration hearing, can anyone confirm that when a player who goes through arbitration, he is ineligible to be traded for twelve months? I read that, but don’t know that it is true.  If true, is it the new league year (July 1) date or arbitration date?

If the Sabres electing for arbitration impacts their ability to trade Byram, I don’t get why they elected for it. I’m good with Byram being on the team next year, but I don’t like how they potentially limited their options with him.  But I could be wrong and would happily learn that. 

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Assuming the Sabres don’t move Byram prior to the arbitration hearing, can anyone confirm that when a player who goes through arbitration, he is ineligible to be traded for twelve months? I read that, but don’t know that it is true.  If true, is it the new league year (July 1) date or arbitration date?

If the Sabres electing for arbitration impacts their ability to trade Byram, I don’t get why they elected for it. I’m good with Byram being on the team next year, but I don’t like how they potentially limited their options with him.  But I could be wrong and would happily learn that. 

Not that I am aware. With an offer sheet you have to keep the player for 1 year before trading if you match but arbitration has no requirement I know of. 

[PromoTheRobot]

53 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I think you can actually get extra value. Say you get a first, a second and a prospect for Byram (which feels about right to me). You flip that first and second and maybe a lower pick of your own for a forward you still have that prospect. Or maybe a lower level roster player. These are all hypotheticals but this sort of deal does happen all the time. 

That could happen. But look at the last few trades that included picks. Montreal had to give up two mid round fists and Emil Heineman to get a signed Noah Dobson.

Edited 1 hour ago by PromoTheRobot

[Drag0nDan]

31 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

It just feels 90% likely that Byram will take the 1-year deal and start counting the days until he can force a trade next summer.

Great job, KA!

Other than the needs in the top 6 vs. LHD - is he more or less valuable a year from now?  If the offers were bad, hold ur cards until the deadline or next offseason, or next deadline.  

[PromoTheRobot]

42 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

It just feels 90% likely that Byram will take the 1-year deal and start counting the days until he can force a trade next summer.

Great job, KA!

Getting upset upset over feelings.

Why isn't Byram forcing a trade ala Peterka now if he wants out so bad?

Edited 1 hour ago by PromoTheRobot

[inkman]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Getting upset upset over feelings.

Why isn't Byram forcing a trade ala Peterka now if he wants out so bad?

Maybe he did but he’s not a whiney bitch?

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's not "trash" though. It's how deals get done. Not all teams want the same things. 

Let me give you a hypothetical to explain. A team like San Jose wants players because they feel they are ready to move up. They'd love a guy like Byram. What they have to offer was a cupboard full of picks and prospects. That's step 1. Then a team like Dallas was up against the cap so they might love some high end picks and prospects for one of their contracts. That's how you do it. 

Kevyn Adams seems incapable of seeing multiple things at the same time and how they can interact. 

Theoretically, you are correct that some deals have multiple components with multiple teams to get a deal done, usually a big deal. That's not how KA operates. And another real problem that the Sabres have in fashioning a major deal like you describe is that too many good players have NTC in their contracts that make it even more challenging to make a deal. 

KA is a meat and potato GM who plays a simple game.  The bottom line is that pigmies don't play in the NB and checker players don't play in major chess tournaments. Unlikely to happen, especially as the offseason winds down. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I feel a sign and deal trade coming.  🙂  See Marner.   The Sabres can re-sign him for 8 years and then trade him.  If traded before he re-signing, the new team can only give him a 7 year deal.   

 

Byram’s goal appears to be getting the big ticket and I imagine has been a big factor in the talks. You’ve got that added variable meaning 3 parties have to be satisfied instead of the usually 2.

1 hour ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Assuming the Sabres don’t move Byram prior to the arbitration hearing, can anyone confirm that when a player who goes through arbitration, he is ineligible to be traded for twelve months? I read that, but don’t know that it is true.  If true, is it the new league year (July 1) date or arbitration date?

If the Sabres electing for arbitration impacts their ability to trade Byram, I don’t get why they elected for it. I’m good with Byram being on the team next year, but I don’t like how they potentially limited their options with him.  But I could be wrong and would happily learn that. 

No. Matt Tkachuk was traded 4 days after the Flames took him to arbitration.

Byram can no longer sign an offer sheet; the Sabres cannot take him to arbitration again.

Not aware of any other restrictions.

1 hour ago, Drag0nDan said:

Other than the needs in the top 6 vs. LHD - is he more or less valuable a year from now?  If the offers were bad, hold ur cards until the deadline or next offseason, or next deadline.  

Next summer Byram will have more control and leverage in the sense that he can sign a 1-year offer sheet. If the Sabres match, they cannot trade him.

Their choices are trading him before July 1 (where he can largely dictate the spot) re-signing him, or taking the picks.

Which is why I think Byram will take one year if it gets to that point.

In the meantime, Byram’s play this year will also largely affect how much teams are willing to pay. He should be highly motivated

Edited 42 minutes ago by dudacek

[JohnC]

15 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

Other than the needs in the top 6 vs. LHD - is he more or less valuable a year from now?  If the offers were bad, hold ur cards until the deadline or next offseason, or next deadline.  

It depends on how well he plays if he stays. If he has a stellar season his contract leverage goes up and his trade value also increases. If he has a donkey season then he and the team lose from a value standpoint.  

[jad1]

17 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Unlike Peterka, don't believe that Byram really really wants out of Buffalo.  IF they'd meet his contract request, expect he'd be fine staying.  Give him $9MM x 8 years and he'd sign.  Don't forget, he's had concussion issues in Colorado; he could be 1 hit away from not getting another contract after this one.

And, agree, all things being equal, Byram wants to be THE man on a team's backend.  Thing is, in order to get that opportunity, he needs to go to a team that has a bad D corps.  Personally believe he's a #2, so to be a team's #1 he needs to be on a team without one or a high end 2.  And maybe he becomes a 1, but he isn't there yet and may never be.

From having seen him speak to the fans a couple of times, he seems to be a fairly happy go lucky guy.  So, maybe he won't hate being in Buffalo should he get in writing from the team a listing of everything they see wrong with his game and all the reasons he shouldn't be paid what he's hoping for; that, coupled with knowing the team is ok with trading him for the right deal could create a severely toxic environment for someone that isn't capable of seeing the bright side of events/life.

So why isn't the deal done?  Adams has stated that the Sabres are reserving cap space to protect against an offer sheet.  The amount they have open could easily cover $8 or 9M.  And the cap is increasing the next few years.

If Bryam wants to be here, he should be open to signing 5-8 years.  5 years is most likely the length of an offer sheet and gives the Sabres 3 UFA years.  8 years is the max.  Both options give Byram protection against concussion risk.

And a trade, at this time, is difficult.  You point out the task of finding a partner with the need for a 1D and a PP1D, who has the right assets coming back.

So the Sabres seem to be committed to a AAV and Bryam wants to be here long term, and a trade isn't possible at this time.  

A deal of 5-8 years with a $8/9 AAV seems like a no-brainer.  So why hasn't a deal been struck yet? 

Maybe Byram isn't like Peterka, who was unwilling to give the Sabres any more RFA years.  Maybe he's more like Reinhart, who was happy to give the Sabres his RFA years, but unwilling to give the them his UFA years.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, jad1 said:

So why isn't the deal done?  Adams has stated that the Sabres are reserving cap space to protect against an offer sheet.  The amount they have open could easily cover $8 or 9M.  And the cap is increasing the next few years.

If Bryam wants to be here, he should be open to signing 5-8 years.  5 years is most likely the length of an offer sheet and gives the Sabres 3 UFA years.  8 years is the max.  Both options give Byram protection against concussion risk.

And a trade, at this time, is difficult.  You point out the task of finding a partner with the need for a 1D and a PP1D, who has the right assets coming back.

So the Sabres seem to be committed to a AAV and Bryam wants to be here long term, and a trade isn't possible at this time.  

A deal of 5-8 years with a $8/9 AAV seems like a no-brainer.  So why hasn't a deal been struck yet? 

Maybe Byram isn't like Peterka, who was unwilling to give the Sabres any more RFA years.  Maybe he's more like Reinhart, who was happy to give the Sabres his RFA years, but unwilling to give the them his UFA years.

The complicating feature is that Byram's value hasn't been established. His play so far doesn't warrant a long-term deal in the $8/9 M per range just yet. When you watch him play it is evident that he is a talented player. But so far for a variety of reasons it has not been established on a consistent basis. I just believe that it is in his interest to sign a short term deal in order to increase his value. That type of arrangement would benefit him and the Sabres. 

[thewookie1]

3 minutes ago, jad1 said:

So why isn't the deal done?  Adams has stated that the Sabres are reserving cap space to protect against an offer sheet.  The amount they have open could easily cover $8 or 9M.  And the cap is increasing the next few years.

If Bryam wants to be here, he should be open to signing 5-8 years.  5 years is most likely the length of an offer sheet and gives the Sabres 3 UFA years.  8 years is the max.  Both options give Byram protection against concussion risk.

And a trade, at this time, is difficult.  You point out the task of finding a partner with the need for a 1D and a PP1D, who has the right assets coming back.

So the Sabres seem to be committed to a AAV and Bryam wants to be here long term, and a trade isn't possible at this time.  

A deal of 5-8 years with a $8/9 AAV seems like a no-brainer.  So why hasn't a deal been struck yet? 

Maybe Byram isn't like Peterka, who was unwilling to give the Sabres any more RFA years.  Maybe he's more like Reinhart, who was happy to give the Sabres his RFA years, but unwilling to give the them his UFA years.

Paying 3 Dmen 8mil + is completely bonkers, especially when only one of them plays D well 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

It just feels 90% likely that Byram will take the 1-year deal and start counting the days until he can force a trade next summer.

Great job, KA!

Just maybe KA is counting on that scenario to happen. 

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, jad1 said:

So why isn't the deal done?  Adams has stated that the Sabres are reserving cap space to protect against an offer sheet.  The amount they have open could easily cover $8 or 9M.  And the cap is increasing the next few years.

If Bryam wants to be here, he should be open to signing 5-8 years.  5 years is most likely the length of an offer sheet and gives the Sabres 3 UFA years.  8 years is the max.  Both options give Byram protection against concussion risk.

And a trade, at this time, is difficult.  You point out the task of finding a partner with the need for a 1D and a PP1D, who has the right assets coming back.

So the Sabres seem to be committed to a AAV and Bryam wants to be here long term, and a trade isn't possible at this time.  

A deal of 5-8 years with a $8/9 AAV seems like a no-brainer.  So why hasn't a deal been struck yet? 

Maybe Byram isn't like Peterka, who was unwilling to give the Sabres any more RFA years.  Maybe he's more like Reinhart, who was happy to give the Sabres his RFA years, but unwilling to give the them his UFA years.

Why?  Because the Sabres don't want to pay him $9MM/year and Bryam apparently doesn't see a reason to sign LT for less than that.

Not sure why you expect an offer sheet to be on a 5 year deal.  Carolina and Moe-ray-all were handing out 1 and 2 year offer sheets.  Not sure what the offer sheet term the 2 Eulers got a couple of years ago.

Expect if somebody were offering Byram 5 years at close to $9MM, he'd've signed an offer sheet already.  But, here we are.

[Kr632]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

It just feels 90% likely that Byram will take the 1-year deal and start counting the days until he can force a trade next summer.

Great job, KA!

Unless the reports aren’t accurate, Byram wants to get paid. He hasn’t demanded a trade. 

[jad1]

38 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Why?  Because the Sabres don't want to pay him $9MM/year and Bryam apparently doesn't see a reason to sign LT for less than that.

Not sure why you expect an offer sheet to be on a 5 year deal.  Carolina and Moe-ray-all were handing out 1 and 2 year offer sheets.  Not sure what the offer sheet term the 2 Eulers got a couple of years ago.

Expect if somebody were offering Byram 5 years at close to $9MM, he'd've signed an offer sheet already.  But, here we are.

So Adams said that the Sabres would match any offer for Byram, which could easily be $8 or 9M, and had the cap space to back up that claim, but now is trying lowball Byram in negotiations?

Big time offer sheets are usually capped at 5 years because the offering team, by rule can only spread the AAV over a max of five years.

So if a team offers Byram a 7 year deal at $7m, the cap number is close to 10M instead of 7, because they can only spread the total over 5 years.

So any long term offer to Byram would probably be a max of 5 years.