Time to trade Peterka

[dudacek]

As far as I'm concerned JJ is an avatar for the team: young, talented and more interested in the sizzle than the substance.

The nonsense being stirred by his agent is proof of that.

Far better to move Peterka now when his value is probably as high as it will ever be, than to sign him to a long-term $8M deal and watch him go on to a Jeff Skinner-esque career.

You aren't going to get what you need trading Östlund or Rosen, and the team is better served giving JJ's minutes to players that understand winning hockey.

If you believe in Kulich or Benson, then this provides them an opportunity. Same goes for Quinn.

I'm a little tired of people whining about the Sabres not taking any big swings then immediately shutting down any proposals other teams might actually bite on.

This is where we have both value and the depth to overcome trading it for what we need.

This is the right move.

Edited yesterday at 02:22 PM by dudacek

[Porous Five Hole]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

As far as I'm concerned JJ is an avatar for the team: young, talented and more interested in the sizzle than the substance.

The nonsense being stirred by his agent is proof of that.

Far better to move Peterka now when his value is probably as high as it will ever be, then sign him to a long-term $8M deal and watch him go on to a Jeff Skinner-esque career.

You aren't going to get what you need trading Östlund or Rosen, and the team is better served giving JJ's minutes to players that understand winning hockey.

If you believe in Kulich or Benson, then this provides them an opportunity. Same goes for Quinn.

I'm a little tired of people whining about the Sabres not taking any big swings then immediately shutting down any proposals other teams might actually bite on.

This is where we have both value and the depth to overcome trading it for what we need.

This is the right move.

This is a STRONG hot take.  My initial reaction is that we know guys who the Sabres have moved on from when they were young (Eichel, Reino, Montour, etc) prior to their full maturity has been premature.  I would qualify moving on from Peterka right now to be in the same vein. 
 

I’m not in the room so I don’t know what Peterka’s mindset is…but I’m not moving on from a projected 30G 70+PT guy at 23. This may be his baseline.  That’s valuable.  
 

If it was a foregone conclusion that JJ’s production is easily replaceable then perhaps I could hop on board.  But I am assuming JJ’s age 27 season could be elite RW1 results.  He has work to do to be a complete player, but this is a prime opportunity to lock in a player who will blossom into that. First line players are not a gimme.
Perhaps it is time to invest into a young guy we know (Tage contract as an example) versus creating space for guys you referenced as an opportunity to develop (Östlund, Rosen, perhaps Kulich). 

To me, JJP is player you invest in versus a player with talent that you move on from based on current value.  But that’s just me.  

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Porous Five Hole said:

This is a STRONG hot take. 

Agreed. it was intended to be.

It all comes down to what you think of Peterka moving forward: is he a Sam Reinhart, a Dylan Cozens or a Jeff Skinner?

Does he have more to give, was this a peak, or is what we saw this year who he is?

 

Edited yesterday at 04:08 AM by dudacek

[PerreaultForever]

Well here's the problem. If you trade away every player who says they aren't happy here you end up with a lot of players saying they aren't happy here so they can be traded. It's a precedent. It's the never ending downward spiral and it has already been said that we have become the league's farm team. I don't know if there's a way out of it with constant half measures. 

I want to add to this roster not subtract from it. If I can upgrade sure, but trade away to trade away no, that's not progress. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Perhaps it is time to invest into a young guy we know (Tage contract as an example) versus creating space for guys you referenced as an opportunity to develop (Östlund, Rosen, perhaps Kulich). 
 

 

For the record, I did not say or mean to imply moving JJ makes room for Rosen or Östlund.

Right now we have Thompson, Tuch, Peterka and Norris pencilled into the top 6, along with two of McLeod, Zucker, Greenway, Benson, Quinn and Kulich.

One of those players will not make the top 9 strictly on numbers and another will have to squeezed out if we want get older/tougher/more responsible.

I'm saying I see enough in Kulich, Quinn and Benson that I expect all three to improve and any drop-off from JJ to the best of those 3 will be more than made up for by the JJ return.

[dudacek]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well here's the problem. If you trade away every player who says they aren't happy here you end up with a lot of players saying they aren't happy here so they can be traded. It's a precedent. It's the never ending downward spiral and it has already been said that we have become the league's farm team. I don't know if there's a way out of it with constant half measures. 

I want to add to this roster not subtract from it. If I can upgrade sure, but trade away to trade away no, that's not progress. 

Exactly. This isn't about "we have to get rid of JJ".

It's about stepping away from moves on the margins and asking "what meaningful asset can we afford to give up?"

This is about selling high on a very good player of certain skill set for very good player or players with a skill set we lack.

Edited yesterday at 01:46 PM by dudacek

[Broken Ankles]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

As far as I'm concerned JJ is an avatar for the team: young, talented and more interested in the sizzle than the substance.

The nonsense being stirred by his agent is proof of that.

Far better to move Peterka now when his value is probably as high as it will ever be, then sign him to a long-term $8M deal and watch him go on to a Jeff Skinner-esque career.

You aren't going to get what you need trading Östlund or Rosen, and the team is better served giving JJ's minutes to players that understand winning hockey.

If you believe in Kulich or Benson, then this provides them an opportunity. Same goes for Quinn.

I'm a little tired of people whining about the Sabres not taking any big swings then immediately shutting down any proposals other teams might actually bite on.

This is where we have both value and the depth to overcome trading it for what we need.

This is the right move.

I appreciate the thought and rationale.  I’d like to add one more reason why I’d be fine with the move.  There may be better return for a team willing to trade D for a young forward and reluctance to trade D for D, D for two prospects, or D for #9 overall.  If you go into the offseason limited in trading only prospects and/or Byrum, you are narrowing the teams willing to trade with you for the stay at home defender you desire.  Adding JJP to mix opens up other avenues.  Maybe Byrum and a prospect could yield a top 6 forward that is a better fit for the Sabres.  Options. 

[pi2000]

If I'm GM I tell JJ he's not being moved, end of story.    You don't like it?   Too bad.

 

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

If I'm GM I tell JJ he's not being moved, end of story.    You don't like it?   Too bad.

 

KA as GM is defined by do you want to be here. I don't think he's capable of playing that card.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Exactly. This isn't about "we have to get rid of JJ".

It's about stepping away from moves on the margins and asking "what meaningful asset can we afford to give up?"

This is about selling high on a very good player of certain skill set for very good player or players for a skill set we lack.

Would we be "selling high" though? or does he still have even more upside? I'm not sure, but I think he can still be better. Not sure he can do that in this system as a Sabre but I'm not sure he's peaked yet either. 

I personally want the make up of this roster altered but I also know I'm unlikely to get that. 

[LGR4GM]

Just Over half of JJ Peterka's assists were secondary. He probably is a 30g scorer. You can't trade him for futures, you'd need to find a slightly older player with better metrics defensively. That's a tall order and unless Jason Robertson is coming this way, idk who that player would be, so you keep jjp.

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

As far as I'm concerned JJ is an avatar for the team: young, talented and more interested in the sizzle than the substance.

The nonsense being stirred by his agent is proof of that.

Far better to move Peterka now when his value is probably as high as it will ever be, then sign him to a long-term $8M deal and watch him go on to a Jeff Skinner-esque career.

You aren't going to get what you need trading Östlund or Rosen, and the team is better served giving JJ's minutes to players that understand winning hockey.

If you believe in Kulich or Benson, then this provides them an opportunity. Same goes for Quinn.

I'm a little tired of people whining about the Sabres not taking any big swings then immediately shutting down any proposals other teams might actually bite on.

This is where we have both value and the depth to overcome trading it for what we need.

This is the right move.

No this isn’t the right move.  You can’t keep trading away the good players you draft and develop.  

Truly I don’t understand your championing keeping Byram and then promoting trading Peterka.  

Both players are about the same age and will cost about the same to retain.  However, one, JJP, is actually good at his job, while Byram isn’t.  JJP’s job is to score and create offense, which he does well.  Byram is a defensemen who can’t play defense.  He also is our 3rd best offensive D and doesn’t get PP time.  

You seem to want to trade JJP because he is not great defensively and keep Byram who has the same issue, especially when our D group is terrible defensively.
 

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

As far as I'm concerned JJ is an avatar for the team: young, talented and more interested in the sizzle than the substance.

The nonsense being stirred by his agent is proof of that.

Far better to move Peterka now when his value is probably as high as it will ever be, then sign him to a long-term $8M deal and watch him go on to a Jeff Skinner-esque career.

You aren't going to get what you need trading Östlund or Rosen, and the team is better served giving JJ's minutes to players that understand winning hockey.

If you believe in Kulich or Benson, then this provides them an opportunity. Same goes for Quinn.

I'm a little tired of people whining about the Sabres not taking any big swings then immediately shutting down any proposals other teams might actually bite on.

This is where we have both value and the depth to overcome trading it for what we need.

This is the right move.

Why do you call what the agent is doing "nonsense"? He's doing what agents are paid to do i.e. stir interest in a player to raise the bid price for him as his contract comes up. What the agent is doing is standard practice where the agent is willing to garner the negative attention in the hope that his client is in a better negotiating position.

The next question that you pose gets at the heart of the matter regarding JJP, and also applicable to the other young players. This team needs to add experience and be able to play a tougher brand of hockey. If a return can be secured that helps to do that, then few people would argue against it. But if the return can't be arranged to get back a roster improving deal, then find another avenue to upgrade. There are other assets that can be used to bulk up the roster. Greenway was procured with a second-round pick. And Zucker wasn't a costly acquisition. Some front office creativity would sure help.  

In my view, the big swing that needs to be made should focus on net and the blueline. If dealing JJP would help in doing that, I would be all for it. 

[Carmel Corn]

If a trade can be had for a top 6 player that immediately makes this team look more like the Panthers, I’m all for it….including moving JJP and a bunch of other younger/unproven players.  

That said, I also think it is dangerous for a pending RFA to be able to dictate (through his agent) an interest to be moved.  Pending UFA’s like Tuch can make demands, but JJP should not be able to as a pending RFA.

[PromoTheRobot]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

As far as I'm concerned JJ is an avatar for the team: young, talented and more interested in the sizzle than the substance.

The nonsense being stirred by his agent is proof of that.

Far better to move Peterka now when his value is probably as high as it will ever be, then sign him to a long-term $8M deal and watch him go on to a Jeff Skinner-esque career.

You aren't going to get what you need trading Östlund or Rosen, and the team is better served giving JJ's minutes to players that understand winning hockey.

If you believe in Kulich or Benson, then this provides them an opportunity. Same goes for Quinn.

I'm a little tired of people whining about the Sabres not taking any big swings then immediately shutting down any proposals other teams might actually bite on.

This is where we have both value and the depth to overcome trading it for what we need.

This is the right move.

We must really enjoy seeing former Sabres win cups elsewhere.

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

We must really enjoy seeing former Sabres win cups elsewhere.

Adams and Pegula do.

[darksabre]

Package him up with Thompson and see what we get. 

[JohnC]

Just now, darksabre said:

Package him up with Thompson and see what we get. 

It's not too difficult to figure out what we'll get. We'll get outhustled, as usual. The organization's motto should be: Moving forward by going backward.  

[Ctaeth]

I agree, I think they should trade Peterka.  Given his ability on the powerplay is not great and his defense is also not great... I agree with @dudacek that there is a certain jeff skinner ish element to his game.  Trading him now might be the best thing for both the team and player.  If he goes somewhere with a coach that can get him to buy in on defense, he stands to improve a lot and make the sabres look silly.  However, if he stays in buffalo and it is more of the same (likely with no change of coach), I'm not sure that's a player that you want to hitch yourself to long term with a massive contract.  

You should be getting a really good return for Peterka, so look for a trade that can either substantially improve our defense, our goalie situation, and/or our powerplay.  If you can fix at least one of those things immediately with this trade, it should be a no brainer

[Mr. Allen]

29 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Package him up with Thompson and see what we get. 

I was actually wondering if Tage would be a highly valued asset if we were to ever even consider trading him.  I mean, with his goal scoring abilities and on that great contract….  Not many players of his caliber are on contracts that nice. 

[Drag0nDan]

10 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

This is a STRONG hot take.  My initial reaction is that we know guys who the Sabres have moved on from when they were young (Eichel, Reino, Montour, etc) prior to their full maturity has been premature.  I would qualify moving on from Peterka right now to be in the same vein. 
 

I’m not in the room so I don’t know what Peterka’s mindset is…but I’m not moving on from a projected 30G 70+PT guy at 23. This may be his baseline.  That’s valuable.  
 

If it was a foregone conclusion that JJ’s production is easily replaceable then perhaps I could hop on board.  But I am assuming JJ’s age 27 season could be elite RW1 results.  He has work to do to be a complete player, but this is a prime opportunity to lock in a player who will blossom into that. First line players are not a gimme.
Perhaps it is time to invest into a young guy we know (Tage contract as an example) versus creating space for guys you referenced as an opportunity to develop (Östlund, Rosen, perhaps Kulich). 

To me, JJP is player you invest in versus a player with talent that you move on from based on current value.  But that’s just me.  

To me, if JJP is moved then it's gotta be the big piece in a hockey trade.  He has more value than Byram - who probably has a smaller list of suitors due to the nature of his game.  There isn't a team in the league who doesn't listen to a call for a 30G winger.  

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

Package him up with Thompson and see what we get. 

I'd bet you could get NYI's 1st (Schaefer) easily enough with that, plus some current pieces to stay at the cap floor and help the Isles stay compliant. Then move those.

Then, re-sign Byram long-term and roll out a top-4 LHD machine:

Byram-Dahlin
Power-Schaefer

It's just what JBott and Housley always wanted!

[That Aud Smell]

Man ... I dunno.

This franchise's recent track record with trading away its malcontented young top-6 forwards is ... not good.

Maybe things would be different with JK in the fold?

[Pimlach]

11 hours ago, dudacek said:

As far as I'm concerned JJ is an avatar for the team: young, talented and more interested in the sizzle than the substance.

The nonsense being stirred by his agent is proof of that.

Far better to move Peterka now when his value is probably as high as it will ever be, the\an to sign him to a long-term $8M deal and watch him go on to a Jeff Skinner-esque career.

You aren't going to get what you need trading Östlund or Rosen, and the team is better served giving JJ's minutes to players that understand winning hockey.

If you believe in Kulich or Benson, then this provides them an opportunity. Same goes for Quinn.

I'm a little tired of people whining about the Sabres not taking any big swings then immediately shutting down any proposals other teams might actually bite on.

This is where we have both value and the depth to overcome trading it for what we need.

This is the right move.

What exactly is his agent doing?   What is the nonsense he is stirring?   

The rumors that JJP wanted out go back to last season just prior to the deadline and he has switched agents since then.   

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No this isn’t the right move.  You can’t keep trading away the good players you draft and develop.  

Truly I don’t understand your championing keeping Byram and then promoting trading Peterka.  

Both players are about the same age and will cost about the same to retain.  However, one, JJP, is actually good at his job, while Byram isn’t.  JJP’s job is to score and create offense, which he does well.  Byram is a defensemen who can’t play defense.  He also is our 3rd best offensive D and doesn’t get PP time.  

You seem to want to trade JJP because he is not great defensively and keep Byram who has the same issue, especially when our D group is terrible defensively.
 

I want to trade JJ because I think the chances of improving the team are better down that path, than by crossing our fingers he's going to be better than he was during his breakout year.

I agree the same logic can be applied to Byram and I am very willing to trade him in order to make the team better.

Where the 2 differ in my mind is I think the majority of Byram's next 7 years will be better than this year and the majority of JJ's will not. I also think JJ's minutes can be at least partially replaced by players already in the organization, while that's not the case for Byram at all.

 

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Why do you call what the agent is doing "nonsense"? He's doing what agents are paid to do i.e. stir interest in a player to raise the bid price for him as his contract comes up. What the agent is doing is standard practice where the agent is willing to garner the negative attention in the hope that his client is in a better negotiating position.

It's also classless, me-first and damaging to the organization you are asking to give you $60M. It happens, but it is not standard practice.

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

We must really enjoy seeing former Sabres win cups elsewhere.

Right, just shut up and eat your gruel.