Has the Adams rebuild failed completely?

[Ross Rhea]

Before writing off this group, I need to see them perform under an established good NHL veteran coach.

[Pimlach]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Right now, I think they need that, plus a 2C probably, at least 3C that can win faceoffs and has a strong 2 way game, along with maybe a veteran D that isn't made of glass like Mule to absorb minutes and play a defensively responsible role, someone who isn't running on fumes and ready for the glue factory, and a veteran backup for UPL would be nice, so that Levi can properly mature into an NHL goalie. Aside from that, how about a gritty coach who holds the team accountable, instead of enabling softness and habitual slow starts?

 

[Thorny]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

@Flashsabre asked the question in another thread:

Has Terry had enough and does he want to get serious about fixing this mess?

Which brought up something I'm really curious about:

Does Sabrespace think the existing core of the Sabres can still grow into the core of regular playoff team, as Kevyn Adams has clearly preached and managed toward up until this point?

Has the Adams rebuild had a setback, or has it failed completely?

Well, technically what Adams preached is a perennial Cup contender ie just getting into the playoffs isn’t good enough. Ie we are sacrificing all this development time under the scenario where that’s the price we pay for greatness. So one could make the argument that if we spent all this extra time prioritizing the future over the now only to become a perennial playoff team, the strategy failed by the prism of its own standards.

Certainly, making the playoffs and taking 5 years to do it isn’t “job well done”, now. Shouldn’t take that long and the expectation was to make it this year.

But honestly, I’m willing to write off the “perennial cup contender” stuff as media jargon, and the whole thing as spin in the name of job security. At the end of the day we want the exact same thing as *every* team and spinning the way you’ll get to it probably amounts to bet-hedging in the end.

I’m happy judging by a more league-relative standard. I don’t need greatness from the plan, I just need league relative competence. I’ll happily take a “mere” playoff team.

As mentioned - that should have been this year. Did the plan fail this year? Yes. Do I think it’s solid enough to the extent it could succeed, to the tune of a playoff berth, if we stick with it? Yes. I’ve said it a lot: Adams should get next year.

But that doesn’t mean the strategy should stagnate. It should be ever evolving and a greater aggressiveness is strictly necessary for next season when imo Adams is definitively on the hottest of seats 

 

Edited April 15 by Thorny

[Thorny]

6 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

He built a environment that the players know they can have fun with no consequences

 

This is a definite negative/potential pitfall of this particular type of strategy  

[Thorny]

5 hours ago, Sabres73 said:

The disciplined rebuild in retrospect will be seen as a long-term success. Missing the playoffs this year is just not seeing the big picture that will unfold over the next several years. It seems pretty obvious to me that that is where this team is going. 

A declaration to fans who just don’t have the ability to see the big picture like *you* do, that they aren’t smart enough to see the “pretty obvious” path we are on.

The best type of post imo. The type that’s literally bursting at the seams with excitement at the prospect of chastising fans in the future 

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Why do ppl keep saying this? The defense wasn't that much better. The goaltending was but the defense was still meh. 

Granato changed his system to be more defensive. It craters the offense while providing negligible returns on defense. In fact because it cratered the offense so substantially, the defense actually got worse. Every players xgf% went down. So goaltending saved us. 

Granato is a fraud.

Professional nhl teams already paying the guys big contracts worth millions of dollars also don’t devote entire seasons to learning one particular aspect of hockey. I don’t get that idea 

also maybe a kindly mod could merge these postings 

Edited April 15 by Thorny

[Carmel Corn]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

 

 

100%.  From laughing stock to one of the top teams in the league.   No doubt in my mind the Sabres would replicate under a guy like Brind'mour 

Ruff gets them into the playoffs 

DG with a good coaching staff and a few changes to the lineup and he gets them in next year 

Sorry, but DG at the helm does not achieve anything other than the possibility of getting into the playoffs (which I still doubt would happen).  Only a complete change of coaching will result in a successful rebuild (meaning a true Stanley Cup contender).

[GASabresIUFAN]

We need a 3rd poll category - "Undecided"

As much as I don't think KA has a real master plan and that I believe the coaching staff needs to be replaced, I do believe with the correct tweaks, this "core" could become a playoff team.

1.  Goaltending - once a black hole of failure now there is hope both short term and long-term with UPL finally developing and Levi. I do think Levi needs another year in the minors and KA should sign a veteran backup.  That's not going to happen however .

2.  Defense - there are some good pieces here.  Dahlin, Byrum and Clifton should each anchor a pair.  I like the idea of Mule combining with Clifton for a rock'em sock'em pair.  I'm not sold on Power and KA needs to take advantage of Joki's best season and trade him.  I'd also put Power on the market to see what is offered for him.  We need atop 4 RHD.

3. Forwards - There are some really good pieces here, but they aren't meshing as we'd hoped.  The whole offense took a step back with the exception of two players (JJP and Mitts) so of course our goofy ball GM traded Mitts.  I believe Quinn and JJP will be our best forwards next season, just in time for their new contracts.  I don't believe TNT or Cozens are elite centers.  TNT is a 2 and Cozens a 3.  What the Sabres really need is an elite center, which isn't happeneding unless we win the draft lottery.  I like Tuch.  I know people here love Benson, but all I see is a guys who keeps getting knock on his butt and off the puck coupled with a few great plays now and again.  Until he is stronger on his skates and add some body mass, his production will remain 3rd/4th line level.  Krebs needs to go, so do Jost, Girgensons, and Robinson, but some changes higher in the lineup are also needed to move this team forward.

Edited April 15 by GASabresIUFAN

[Scottysabres]

As last season was coming to a close, many would have said the goaltending and defense were the weak link. Given the scoring those that thought that way were correct. But now the defense and goaltending have improved, the forwards failed to achieve consistency in scoring. So, what is the problem?

Well, based on opinion only mind you, the defense and goaltending are actually at a point where the team can win many games. The rest of the league has figured out the Sabres offense, especially the power play. Our players aren't space creators in the offensive zone, they aren't creative, period. The league has shut down the Sabres through various ways, all similar however. Stop them at the offensive zone blue line, remove their one shot wonders Tage and VO, and the Sabres become primarily a parameter team.

Just my view of things is all. And if major changes aren't made in coaxhing, and the forward ranks, I don't see the Sabres making the playoffs next season as well.

[Brawndo]

Is there any indication that the owner is in a hurry to make the playoffs? 
 

Since the 2021 TDL, the team has not retained any salary in a trade, acted as a broker for other teams, not taken any salary dumps for assets ( Bishop’s Contract to hit the cap floor does not count) nor have they spent anywhere near the salary cap over the past three seasons. This is coming from above Adams. 

Adams was relieved when there was no retention in the Okposo or Johnson Deals I wonder why that is 

Colorado gave Philly a 2025 1st for taking Ryan Johansen as a cap dump, does anyone here believe that the same deal wasn’t offered to Buffalo in the Mitts Trade?  That pick could have been used as a trade chip this summer. 
 

There have been rumors of restrictions on spending to make up for Covid losses. Unless this changes, this team may be stuck in neutral. 

[...]

I can not respond to this poll due to its egregious grammatical errors. Thank you.

[Buffalonill]

2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

 

 

100%.  From laughing stock to one of the top teams in the league.   No doubt in my mind the Sabres would replicate under a guy like Brind'mour 

Ruff gets them into the playoffs 

DG with a good coaching staff and a few changes to the lineup and he gets them in next year 

 

[Thorny]

22 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Is there any indication that the owner is in a hurry to make the playoffs? 
 

Since the 2021 TDL, the team has not retained any salary in a trade, acted as a broker for other teams, not taken any salary dumps for assets ( Bishop’s Contract to hit the cap floor does not count) nor have they spent anywhere near the salary cap over the past three seasons. This is coming from above Adams. 

Adams was relieved when there was no retention in the Okposo or Johnson Deals I wonder why that is 

Colorado gave Philly a 2025 1st for taking Ryan Johansen as a cap dump, does anyone here believe that the same deal wasn’t offered to Buffalo in the Mitts Trade?  That pick could have been used as a trade chip this summer. 
 

There have been rumors of restrictions on spending to make up for Covid losses. Unless this changes, this team may be stuck in neutral. 

Adams is the guy who specifically signed up for the “I will fire those guys, I can do it with less” plan.
 

Part and parcel. Pegula’s strategy is Adams strategy is Pegula’s strategy. Pegula picked Adams *because* he was amendable to the skill set he was looking for in a GM.

Spending to the cap is one thing, but the value we’d have gained from being used as a broker or retaining is not negligible but also not particularly noteworthy either in the grand scheme of all the potential avenues to construct a team. An extra pick or two, for a GM already reluctant to trade picks. We aren’t lacking pick/prospect currency to make moves, we have an abundance, there’s no way the loss of an asset or two presented an obstacle to making the playoffs because it didn’t present an obstacle to making trades 

A bad team will make the playoffs this year. Pegula sucks but he doesn’t present an obstacle to making the playoffs because making the playoffs isn’t hard 

 

Edited April 15 by Thorny

[Brawndo]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Adams is the guy who specifically signed up for the “I will fire those guys, I can do it with less” plan.
 

Part and parcel. Pegula’s strategy is Adams strategy is Pegula’s strategy. Pegula picked Adams *because* he was amendable to the skill set he was looking for in a GM.

Spending to the cap is one thing, but the value we’d have gained from being used as a broker or retaining is not negligible but also not particularly noteworthy either in the grand scheme of all the potential avenues to construct a team. An extra pick or two, for a GM already reluctant to trade picks. We aren’t lacking pick/prospect currency to make moves, we have an abundance, there’s no way the loss of an asset or two presented an obstacle to making the playoffs 

 

The obstacle is the internal salary cap placed by the owner. 
There were deals to be made last offseason for veterans but the incoming salaries would have pushed beyond that cap, so they were nixed. 
Adams took the job and carried out Pegula’s effective, efficient and economic plan, with the understanding that there would be a time to switch back to a spending mode. 
The thought amongst the Front Office last summer was to start that process, unfortunately the person who sets the budget did not 

[Buffalo Super Fan]

No the biggest blame I put on the current Buffalo Sabres players. Have some professional pride and not let teams walk over you. Have a backbone and stand up. You hate the Sabres fans again that doesn’t matter. Stand up so you’re not the laughing stock of the NHL yearly. The booing Sabres fans is a crutch for not standing up against the opposing NHL teams. No one is going to feel sorry for you on the NHL professional level. The problem is the Sabres body and skill were NHL ready the mind wasn’t mature enough to be a NHL hockey player. And the problem is now there are 32 NHL teams and growing the players have choices where in the NHL past when I started being a Sabres fan there were 18 NHL teams and 14 WHA teams. Back then these players would be dealt with being left home and benched at first. And if that didn’t work it was off to the minors sometimes never to be heard from again in the NHL. There is no way Punch Imlach would coddle players like that neither would Scotty Bowman. I do think Kevyn Adams needs to be harder on the Sabres players next year than he has been. I do wonder if Kevyn Adams and Don Granato are too understanding with the Sabres players? I do think the Sabres players could potentially benefit from a coach like Lindy Ruff that is a little more old school than a Kevyn Adams and Don Granato.

My impression of Buffalo Sabres head coach Don Granato it’s like having “Mister Rogers” as a head coach to much understanding. I am not saying go all Bobby Knight the former Indiana Hoosiers basketball coach or former Green Bay Packers football coach Vince Lombardi for a head coach because none of the current Sabres players today would last a season with someone like coach Bobby Knight or Vince Lombardi someone like that yells and barks. Because players are mentally fragile today they just shut down mentally. My generation someone that yells or barks means they care and want you to reach your full potential but society today is different place. The players just shut down so there is a very fine line today with the players. My observation the Sabres have some of the most mentally fragile players I have ever seen in my watching sports for 50 years. I really wonder sometimes if sports are cut out for some of these Sabres players. Yes they have the skills but mentally they are lacking in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Thorny]

25 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

The obstacle is the internal salary cap placed by the owner. 
There were deals to be made last offseason for veterans but the incoming salaries would have pushed beyond that cap, so they were nixed. 
Adams took the job and carried out Pegula’s effective, efficient and economic plan, with the understanding that there would be a time to switch back to a spending mode. 
The thought amongst the Front Office last summer was to start that process, unfortunately the person who sets the budget did not 

Damn do you have specifics on which deals were nixed that Adams had completed? 

[#freejame]

10 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Paying cozens that kind of money for a 3rd line center( that you're projecting him) is ridiculous 

 

Trading for a 3rd line center making so much would also be ridiculous. Cozens needs to dramatically improve or we are in trouble. 

[triumph_communes]

Florida has half our castoffs. They’re doing fine

 

the talent is fine now that there’s a goalie. The coaching is abysmal. Power play has all the talent in the world yet lost us the season all on its own 

 

the real question is who does Matty Ellis have hostage?

Edited April 15 by triumph_communes

[#freejame]

11 hours ago, Thorny said:

A declaration to fans who just don’t have the ability to see the big picture like *you* do, that they aren’t smart enough to see the “pretty obvious” path we are on.

The best type of post imo. The type that’s literally bursting at the seams with excitement at the prospect of chastising fans in the future 

Personally, and I’ve expressed this with pushback before, I think Terry “sees” (not literally) and hears posts and comments like the one you are replying to and takes them as justification to continue on his path.

There is a significant segment of this fan base that thinks our performances have been acceptable. There is a significant decrease in critical press and radio time for the Sabres compared to a decade ago. There is plenty of tire pumping from fans and media about the job the Sabres are doing. 

I don’t understand it and I genuinely believe that this organization feels no need to change because of it. Until all Sabres fans simply deem it unacceptable to miss the playoffs, it will not be unacceptable to the Sabres. 

When ticket prices increase again next season, if the response is not that received by Thomas Hutchinson in 1765 for levying taxes on behalf of the king, this franchise will once again miss the playoffs. 

Expectations are created and upheld by all. There are too many with far too low of expectations. The concerning part is how soft our players have become with such low expectations. It’s a huge problem that can only be fixed with success. 

Edited April 15 by #freejame

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

As last season was coming to a close, many would have said the goaltending and defense were the weak link. Given the scoring those that thought that way were correct. But now the defense and goaltending have improved, the forwards failed to achieve consistency in scoring. So, what is the problem?

Well, based on opinion only mind you, the and goaltending are actually at a point where the team can win many games. The rest of the league has figured out the Sabres offense, especially the power play. Our players aren't space creators in the offensive zone, they aren't creative, period. The league has shut down the Sabres through various ways, all similar however. Stop them at the offensive zone blue line, remove their one shot wonders Tage and VO, and the Sabres become primarily a parameter team.

Just my view of things is all. And if major changes aren't made in coaxhing, and the forward ranks, I don't see the Sabres making the playoffs next season as well.

Again, can anyone here show anything that says the defense improved? GA didn't prove the defense improved, it proves the goaltending did. 

6 hours ago, Brawndo said:

The obstacle is the internal salary cap placed by the owner. 
There were deals to be made last offseason for veterans but the incoming salaries would have pushed beyond that cap, so they were nixed. 
Adams took the job and carried out Pegula’s effective, efficient and economic plan, with the understanding that there would be a time to switch back to a spending mode. 
The thought amongst the Front Office last summer was to start that process, unfortunately the person who sets the budget did not 

[Pimlach]

16 hours ago, Sabres73 said:

The disciplined rebuild in retrospect will be seen as a long-term success. Missing the playoffs this year is just not seeing the big picture that will unfold over the next several years. It seems pretty obvious to me that that is where this team is going. 

Disciplined rebuild?   We just saw a regression in team play despite finally getting , and wasting, quality NHL goaltending.  

Next several years?   This year they are going to finish at least 4 slots out of the final playoff spot.  

You seem to be tied into Adams plan.   What year do they make the playoffs?

What year do they catapult to the Cup and show us all the big picture?  

What is obvious about the team’s direction that even the National media hasn’t picked up on yet? 
 

To my eyes they have to upgrade the coaching staff,  and they are still several players away.   

 

[nucci]

He's been GM since June 2020 and his teams have yet to make the playoffs. That should be considered a failure.

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Disciplined rebuild?   We just saw a regression in team play despite finally getting , and wasting, quality NHL goaltending.  

Next several years?   This year they are going to finish at least 4 slots out of the final playoff spot.  

You seem to be tied into Adams plan.   What year do they make the playoffs?

What year do they catapult to the Cup and show us all the big picture?  

What is obvious about the team’s direction that even the National media hasn’t picked up on yet? 
 

To my eyes they have to upgrade the coaching staff,  and they are still several players away.   

 

I will be watching what moves this front office makes this offseason. I'm not advocating for or expecting some blockbuster deal/s that dramatically alter the shape of this roster. The Greenway and Clifton acquisitions were good/solid additions. My hope is that there will be at least a couple deals that are on a higher level to improve this team. If that doesn't happen, then I place the onus on the owner. My fear (hope that I'm wrong) is that he has lost his passion for the failed franchise he has presided over. It just seems to me that as an owner over the past number of years he has acted as if he is a bean counter in a turbulent business cycle. If that is the case, he is in the wrong business. No question that pro sports are very much a high stakes business. But it's also a competition. If there is little desire to compete with the big boys, then it's better to get out. 

What's really frustrating about Terry Pegula is that he has become a behind the curtain invisible owner. No one knows what his thoughts are regarding this stumbling franchise. That's not how an owner should operate. No one's arguing that he should be a high-profile owner constantly bellowing out his opinions. But his sphinx-like act behavior while his franchise struggles is getting tiresome. 

[K-9]

Has the rebuild failed? Failed!? Why, it’s only just begun! So let’s exercise a little patience, ok folks? 

[Weave]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Has the rebuild failed? Failed!? Why, it’s only just begun! So let’s exercise a little patience, ok folks?