Casey Mittelstadt traded for Bowen Byram

[Thorny]

12 hours ago, WhenWillItEnd66 said:

I was wondering the same thing......do not get me wrong, i still love him for the sabres, but he has came down to earth a bit

Good player + Bernier effect = Is he our best player?

(-) Bernier effect: still good. 

Edited March 21 by Thorny

[...]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

Like the old saying goes, you play like you practice. 

But I always add that you practice like you’re coached.

This is what happens when you hire milquetoast people who have never played in the NHL.

Meatballs will never understand what it takes to compete at the NHL or even AHL level because he's never experienced it.

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, ... said:

Another shot at Meatballs. There's no denying the theme in the comments from those who have escaped.

 

How long before Byram slows down to country club levels in Sabreland?   
 

Its already happening. 

[dudacek]

50 minutes ago, ... said:

This is what happens when you hire milquetoast people who have never played in the NHL.

Meatballs will never understand what it takes to compete at the NHL or even AHL level because he's never experienced it.

 

Jared Bednar

Jon Cooper

Barry Trotz

Not exactly the best argument I've seen for rejecting a coach.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, ... said:

This is what happens when you hire milquetoast people who have never played in the NHL.

Meatballs will never understand what it takes to compete at the NHL or even AHL level because he's never experienced it.

I don’t know that one has to have played in order to be a good coach. The world of sports is full of great coaches who never  excelled as players at the professional level. 

[Thorny]

Just now, K-9 said:

I don’t know that one has to have played in order to be a good coach. The world of sports is full of great coaches who never  excelled as players at the professional level. 

Those who can’t do, teach 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, ... said:

This is what happens when you hire milquetoast people who have never played in the NHL.

Meatballs will never understand what it takes to compete at the NHL or even AHL level because he's never experienced it.

Roger Neilson?

I get your overall point though. I don't think he does know how to actually motivate them or lead them and with the absence of a solid veteran core, that's a real problem. 

[sabrefanday1]

Meatballs does not have the drive adn passion that many good coaches have....also it is clear that there are no repercussions if a player does not give their all every shift.  Try taking off a bunch of shifts like our tream does with Torts...haha 

[French Collection]

5 hours ago, K-9 said:

I don’t know that one has to have played in order to be a good coach. The world of sports is full of great coaches who never  excelled as players at the professional level. 

Scotty Bowman

[Pimlach]

8 hours ago, ... said:

This is what happens when you hire milquetoast people who have never played in the NHL.

Meatballs will never understand what it takes to compete at the NHL or even AHL level because he's never experienced it.

Granato was an AHL HC for 6 years.  He had 7 years of NHL experience, 3+ as HC.  

[nfreeman]

I agree that the "never played in the NHL" factor isn't particularly probative, but the more important point here is that Mitts' comment again illustrates that the Sabres are not well coached.

[DarthEbriate]

Practice speed can also be driven by, and probably should be driven by, the players. You know when you're not putting in the effort; you know when your teammates are dogging it in practice. The players are allowed to get on each other and drive each other harder during practice as well as before/after.

Do they want to win? Then practice like you're going to win.

And yes, the team probably needs a Drury or a ROR, or any of the long list of players who will come in and put that stamp on the locker room. And then the kid core needs to embrace it.

[dudacek]

24 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I agree that the "never played in the NHL" factor isn't particularly probative, but the more important point here is that Mitts' comment again illustrates that the Sabres are not well coached.

And/or that they don't have Nathan MacKinnon setting the pace or the tone?

Do people actually find it particularly revelatory the Avalanche practice and play faster than the Sabres?

Don't the Avalanche play faster than pretty much everybody?

Hasn't Granato been urging the team to play faster all season long?

This is not an endorsement of Granato, it's my attempt to point out that there is an equally plausible argument that Mitts' comment illustrates that the Sabres players are immature. That's been their story all season. Those are the cards the coach has been dealt.

Suddenly surrounded by talented, driven adults, maybe it's dawning on Casey that there really is another level.

Or let me put it this way, you add MacKinnon to the Sabres and Granato would suddenly become a much-better coach.

Lindy Ruff coached the Sabres to 82, 72 and 85-point seasons from 2002-05 — or basically 3 straight years of what we have watched this year.

And then Darcy gave him Chris Drury.

[...]

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

 

Jared Bednar

Jon Cooper

Barry Trotz

Not exactly the best argument I've seen for rejecting a coach.

Those coaches have proved they get it.

Our coach has proved he does not and, because of his lack of experience, never will at this point.

Or are we happy to have the coach of the Sabres learn how to coach at the NHL level on the fly?  How much time should we give Meatballs?

 

7 hours ago, K-9 said:

I don’t know that one has to have played in order to be a good coach. The world of sports is full of great coaches who never  excelled as players at the professional level. 

If you're a parent, have you ever had people who have never had kids try and explain to you how to raise kids? People who have never had children will never understand what it's like to have children.

How is basically any other task different?

 

7 hours ago, Thorny said:

Those who can’t do, teach 

This is bad folk wisdom; unqualified advice.

Why learn from people who have never achieved any level of success in the task they're trying to teach? After a certain point in the "teaching", the teacher is just making guesses having never achieved beyond a certain level.

 

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Granato was an AHL HC for 6 years.  He had 7 years of NHL experience, 3+ as HC.  

So what? He never played at the AHL or NHL level. He has no idea what his players are going through or what it takes as an individual to succeed at those levels.

The Sabres' record under him is PROOF of this. He can only get them so far.

 

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

I agree that the "never played in the NHL" factor isn't particularly probative, but the more important point here is that Mitts' comment again illustrates that the Sabres are not well coached.

Meatballs doesn't know what it takes to coach players at the NHL level to be successful because he has never done it himself and, unlike some other coaches who weren't players but were successful NHL coaches, isn't smart or creative enough to figure out what it takes.

Mitts' comments, and others like it, are coming from people who HAVE played NHL hockey and are super informative. Why discount the experience of real NHL players and the actual record when it comes to evaluating the ability of Meatballs? It's crazy to dismiss this input.

Edited March 21 by ...
Donnie Meatballs wuz here

[Pimlach]

5 minutes ago, ... said:

Those coaches have proved they get it.

Our coach has proved he does not and, because of his lack of experience, never will at this point.

Or are we happy to have the coach of the Sabres learn how to coach at the NHL level on the fly?  How much time should we give Meatballs?

 

If you're a parent, have you ever had people who have never had kids try and explain to you how to raise kids? People who have never had children will never understand what it's like to have children.

How is basically any other task different?

 

This is bad folk wisdom; unqualified advice.

Why learn from people who have never achieved any level of success in the task they're trying to teach? After a certain point in the "teaching", the teacher is just making guesses having never achieved beyond a certain level.

 

So what? He never played at the AHL or NHL level. He has no idea what his players are going through or what it takes as an individual to succeed at those levels.

The Sabres' record under him is PROOF of this. He can only get them so far.

 

Meatballs doesn't know what it takes to coach players at the NHL level to be successful because he has never done it himself and, unlike some other coaches who weren't players but were successful NHL coaches, isn't smart or creative enough to figure out what it takes.

Mitts' comments, and others like it, are coming from people who HAVE played NHL hockey and are super informative. Why discount the experience of real NHL players and the actual record when it comes to evaluating the ability of Meatballs? It's crazy to dismiss this input.

Mitts is playing for Bednar, who also never played in the NHL either, and he had the same amount of AHL coaching experience as Meatballs.  

There are many great coaches that never played in the NHL.  Ken Hitchcock's team beat Lindy Ruff's team for the Cup.  Hitchcock never played past youth hockey leagues, never even at Juniors level.  Ruff played 691 NHL games.  

I am not saying Meatballs is a good NHL coach, I am saying your reasoning is wrong and there are numerous examples to prove it.  

 

[dudacek]

56 minutes ago, ... said:

Those coaches have proved they get it.

Our coach has proved he does not and, because of his lack of experience, never will at this point.

Or are we happy to have the coach of the Sabres learn how to coach at the NHL level on the fly?  How much time should we give Meatballs?

 

If you're a parent, have you ever had people who have never had kids try and explain to you how to raise kids? People who have never had children will never understand what it's like to have children.

How is basically any other task different?

 

This is bad folk wisdom; unqualified advice.

Why learn from people who have never achieved any level of success in the task they're trying to teach? After a certain point in the "teaching", the teacher is just making guesses having never achieved beyond a certain level.

 

So what? He never played at the AHL or NHL level. He has no idea what his players are going through or what it takes as an individual to succeed at those levels.

The Sabres' record under him is PROOF of this. He can only get them so far.

 

Meatballs doesn't know what it takes to coach players at the NHL level to be successful because he has never done it himself and, unlike some other coaches who weren't players but were successful NHL coaches, isn't smart or creative enough to figure out what it takes.

Mitts' comments, and others like it, are coming from people who HAVE played NHL hockey and are super informative. Why discount the experience of real NHL players and the actual record when it comes to evaluating the ability of Meatballs? It's crazy to dismiss this input.

Doubling down?

4 of the past 6 Stanley Cup winners were coached by men who never played NHL hockey. A 5th played just 36 games.

John Tortorella, Claude Julien, Mike Babcock, Bob Hartley, Pat Burns, Scotty freaking Bowman — half of this century's cup-winners never played NHL hockey. Bowman, Burns, Hartley, Babcock and Cooper never even played pro hockey at all.

Barry Trotz had a worse record than Granato in each of his first 5 NHL seasons — under .500 and missed the playoffs in every single one. Cup.

Granato may or may not be a good coach, but the fact he didn't play in the NHL has nothing to do with it.

[...]

17 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Doubling down?

4 of the past 6 Stanley Cup winners were coached by men who never played NHL hockey. A 5th played just 36 games.

John Tortorella, Claude Julien, Mike Babcock, Bob Hartley, Pat Burns, Scotty freaking Bowman — half of this century's cup-winners never played NHL hockey. Bowman, Burns, Hartley, Babcock and Cooper never even played pro hockey at all.

Barry Trotz had a worse record than Granato in each of his first 5 NHL seasons — under .500 and missed the playoffs in every single one. Cup.

Granato may or may not be a good coach, but the fact he didn't play in the NHL has nothing to do with it.

I'm not talking about any of them, I am talking specifically about Granato.

They figured it out. He can't. He's not smart or creative enough. The only asset he would have left after those to tap into would be experience and he has none of that, either.

[shrader]

14 hours ago, ... said:

Another shot at Meatballs. There's no denying the theme in the comments from those who have escaped.

 

Are people shocked that the beat team in the league has a better setup than Buffalo?

[Weave]

6 minutes ago, shrader said:

Are people shocked that the beat team in the league has a better setup than Buffalo?

I don’t think anyone has expressed shock.  More like recognition and disappointment.

[North Buffalo]

3 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I agree that the "never played in the NHL" factor isn't particularly probative, but the more important point here is that Mitts' comment again illustrates that the Sabres are not well coached.

That is not correct... he is a technical teacher and developer... what he is learning on the fly is being a motivated hard nose bench coach... can he get there? He has had a few moments but I am not sure he has it in him to take it to the next level and I think that is what we see.

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

And/or that they don't have Nathan MacKinnon setting the pace or the tone?

Do people actually find it particularly revelatory the Avalanche practice and play faster than the Sabres?

Don't the Avalanche play faster than pretty much everybody?

Hasn't Granato been urging the team to play faster all season long?

This is not an endorsement of Granato, it's my attempt to point out that there is an equally plausible argument that Mitts' comment illustrates that the Sabres players are immature. That's been their story all season. Those are the cards the coach has been dealt.

Suddenly surrounded by talented, driven adults, maybe it's dawning on Casey that there really is another level.

Or let me put it this way, you add MacKinnon to the Sabres and Granato would suddenly become a much-better coach.

Lindy Ruff coached the Sabres to 82, 72 and 85-point seasons from 2002-05 — or basically 3 straight years of what we have watched this year.

And then Darcy gave him Chris Drury.

Excellent post, as always, but those early 2000's Sabres teams didn't have the the talent that this Sabres team does.

I'll also note that Tuch is 27 -- the same age as Drury was when he was traded to Buffalo.  And Tage is 26. 

I could be wrong but I really think someone like Torts or Laviolette would get much more out of this team than DG has.

 

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, ... said:

I'm not talking about any of them, I am talking specifically about Granato.

They figured it out. He can't. He's not smart or creative enough. The only asset he would have left after those to tap into would be experience and he has none of that, either.

27 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

That is not correct... he is a technical teacher and developer... what he is learning on the fly is being a motivated hard nose bench coach... can he get there? He has had a few moments but I am not sure he has it in him to take it to the next level and I think that is what we see.

Each or both of you might be right about the particulars, but there is no arguing with the results.  Not even close to good enough.  And if there are no significant changes, it just seems inevitable that next year will be a repeat of this year.

FWIW, the vibe I get is that the team likes him, but generally treats him like substitute teacher -- i.e. nothing to get too concerned about.

[Doohickie]

11 hours ago, dudacek said:

12 hours ago, ... said:

This is what happens when you hire milquetoast people who have never played in the NHL.

Meatballs will never understand what it takes to compete at the NHL or even AHL level because he's never experienced it.

Jared Bednar

Jon Cooper

Barry Trotz

Not exactly the best argument I've seen for rejecting a coach.

...Scotty Bowman has entered the chat.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, ... said:

I'm not talking about any of them, I am talking specifically about Granato.

They figured it out. He can't. He's not smart or creative enough. The only asset he would have left after those to tap into would be experience and he has none of that, either.

Donny is smart and creative.   Looking at the list of successful coaches that never played in the NHL, they are all extremely demanding hard *****.  So far Donny is not.  

I for one think that DG looks to be maxed out as a coach for this team.  DG has to demand more and make them pay when they don't play right.  Most players want that and they thrive on the higher expectations.  He will be given another year so we are going to see.  

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Don't the Avalanche play faster than pretty much everybody?

This is not an endorsement of Granato, it's my attempt to point out that there is an equally plausible argument that Mitts' comment illustrates that the Sabres players are immature. That's been their story all season. Those are the cards the coach has been dealt.

Suddenly surrounded by talented, driven adults, maybe it's dawning on Casey that there really is another level.

“Equally plausible argument”…now we’re talkin’!

 

Edited March 21 by Thorny