seer775 Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 (edited) 4 minutes ago, dudacek said: I don't see anyone else on the roster capable of filling in the minutes of either of those guys should they go down. And that's assuming Tage and Dylan can bounce back. I also don't see anyone on the roster capable of contributing anything close to what Mitts could from the 3C slot. This is kinda like the argument against acquiring Byrum. It's actually a good thing to have guys who are better than their roster slot. It's kinda what makes the good teams good. We were never going to pay Mitts top dollar to play 3C. Especially considering how awful our Defensemen are. Mitts could wing, but with Skinner, Tuch, JJP, and Quinn, why bother? Byram > Power >>> RJ, Clifton, Joker, Mule, Bryson. Having competent defensemen is more important than having skilled forwards. Dmen play more minutes in all situations. You build the roster from the net out. Edited April 28 by seer775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 33 minutes ago, dudacek said: This is not his history at all. Oh yeah? Go on the Avs forum. They were glad to be rid of him and his inconsistency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 6 minutes ago, seer775 said: We were never going to pay Mitts top dollar to play 3C. And that was the first mistake. He's at least 2C material; he's played 1C with no dropoff on the top line. If anything, paying Cozens to be 2C was the mistake; he's still a "potential" 2C. Mitts is the real deal. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seer775 Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Doohickie said: Oh yeah? Go on the Avs forum. They were glad to be rid of him and his inconsistency. Not sure about that chief. Top 4 Dman, 7th in TOI/G during their 21-22 cup run. He was 20 y/o. 1 minute ago, Doohickie said: And that was the first mistake. He's at least 2C material; he's played 1C with no dropoff on the top line. If anything, paying Cozens to be 2C was the mistake; he's still a "potential" 2C. Mitts is the real deal. False. Cozens has a higher ppg than Mitts at 23 y/o. Despite last year's performance, Mitts has been a no-show. Edited April 28 by seer775 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 8 minutes ago, seer775 said: Byram > Power >>> RJ I think you're underestimating Johnson there. Have I seen Byram play top notch defense? Yes. Does he do it consistently? No. (And that, by the way, is why the Avs moved him.) Does he make too many bone-headed plays? Yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 1 minute ago, seer775 said: False. Cozens has a higher ppg than Mitts at 23 y/o. Despite last year's performance, Mitts has been a no-show. Mitts has improved every season. So Cozens is better than Mitts was in the past. I'm talking about Mitts NOW. He's flat out better than Cozens. We kept him through his lean years and traded him in his gravy years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seer775 Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Doohickie said: I think you're underestimating Johnson there. Have I seen Byram play top notch defense? Yes. Does he do it consistently? No. (And that, by the way, is why the Avs moved him.) Does he make too many bone-headed plays? Yes. That's not why they moved him. Avs needed a 2C. They have solid dmen (Makar, Girard, Toews). Without scoring, they would drop to the Jets in 4. 7 minutes ago, Doohickie said: Mitts has improved every season. So Cozens is better than Mitts was in the past. I'm talking about Mitts NOW. He's flat out better than Cozens. We kept him through his lean years and traded him in his gravy years. Mitts now needs a $7M contract. He's not getting that to play 3C. We need Top 4 Dmen. We have scoring forwards that are better than Mitts. Top 4 Dmen play the most minutes on almost every team. Edited April 28 by seer775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 12 minutes ago, seer775 said: We were never going to pay Mitts top dollar to play 3C. Especially considering how awful our Defensemen are. Mitts could wing, but with Skinner, Tuch, JJP, and Quinn, why bother? Byram > Power >>> RJ, Clifton, Joker, Mule, Bryson. Having competent defensemen is more important than having skilled forwards. Dmen play more minutes in all situations. You build the roster from the net out. The bold can be true without saying there was no spot on the roster for Mitts. 6 minutes ago, Doohickie said: Oh yeah? Go on the Avs forum. They were glad to be rid of him and his inconsistency. This is about as true as saying Sabrespace wants to get rid of Owen Power. Some posters don't make a consensus. And they certainly don't make something fact. How many times have you read on this forum that Casey Mittelstadt is garbage? Tage Thompson? Rasmus freaking Dahlin? Bo Byram has first-pair talent. Adams bet a very good player that his performance will match his talent. I'm not going to pass judgement after 17 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seer775 Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 (edited) 6 minutes ago, dudacek said: The bold can be true without saying there was no spot on the roster for Mitts. He could find a spot on the roster. I'm not saying he's bad. He's a good player. Given the choice between a Top 4 dman and a depth scoring forward, I would choose the Dman. Edited April 28 by seer775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 13 minutes ago, seer775 said: That's not why they moved him. Avs needed a 2C. They have solid dmen (Makar, Girard, Toews). Without scoring, they would drop to the Jets in 4. Right. And who was expendable? Why? Byram, because he just wasn't playing up to that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seer775 Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 Just now, Doohickie said: Right. And who was expendable? Why? Byram, because he just wasn't playing up to that level. I mean, you weren't going to get much more for a forward with two decent seasons in his contract year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 14 minutes ago, seer775 said: Mitts now needs a $7M contract. He's not getting that to play 3C. On the Sabres he would be the 1B C. Cozens at his current level would be 3C behind Tage and Mitts. Just now, seer775 said: I mean, you weren't going to get much more for a forward with two decent seasons in his contract year. There was no reason to move him at all. Just pay him. But Kevyn didn't want to admit that he made a mistake anointing Tage and Cozens to the top two centers. In fact if Casey commands $7 million or more it proves my point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seer775 Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 1 minute ago, Doohickie said: On the Sabres he would be the 1B C. Cozens at his current level would be 3C behind Tage and Mitts. There is no 1B C. There's a 1C, 2C, 3C, and 4C. Cozens has proven to be better than Mitts and is 2 years younger. We already have him and TT under term. That leaves 3C and 4C. At the price Mitts will bargain for (6-8 Mil AAV), he doesn't get a spot. Plain and simple. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seer775 Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Doohickie said: On the Sabres he would be the 1B C. Cozens at his current level would be 3C behind Tage and Mitts. There was no reason to move him at all. Just pay him. But Kevyn didn't want to admit that he made a mistake anointing Tage and Cozens to the top two centers. In fact if Casey commands $7 million or more it proves my point. 9 minutes ago, Doohickie said: Kevyn didn't want to admit that he made a mistake anointing Tage and Cozens to the top two centers. In fact if Casey commands $7 million or more it proves my point. How? We have a surplus at Top 6 F and a lack of Top 4 D. Top 4 D is more important than Top 6 F. Trade for Dmen makes sense here. I'm not one to defend the Sabres organization, but this is one of the times the team did something logical. Edited April 28 by seer775 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 32 minutes ago, Doohickie said: Mitts has improved every season. So Cozens is better than Mitts was in the past. I'm talking about Mitts NOW. He's flat out better than Cozens. We kept him through his lean years and traded him in his gravy years. Mitts was better than Cozens this season. But its flat out false to say he has improved every season: 25 points to 9 to 21 to 19 to 59 to 57. Cozens is 13 to 38 to 68 to 47. Cozens also had 18 goals in an off-season — the same number Casey had in this, his best season. Dylan had 31 goals the season he turned 22, a number Casey has never come close to. I like Casey, but I take Cozens over him every single time. 16 minutes ago, Doohickie said: Right. And who was expendable? Why? Byram, because he just wasn't playing up to that level. Why is because they had 5 top-4 dmen and he was the price they had to pay to get a legit 2C. Just like the Sabres had 3 top-2 centres and Mitts was the price they had to pay a to get a top-4 D. That's kinda how trades work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 Casey is a star for a potential cup winner while Byram was just about the biggest liability on our entire roster since he arrived. Any time Byram was on the ice for us last year I would expect something bad was going to happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 On 4/27/2024 at 3:27 PM, seer775 said: One more year before we ship Krebs. Byram trade wasn't a failure because we got a Top 4 Dman. Byram is much better than Joker, RJ, Clifton, and Samuelsson. I think he's a solid step and a half over Power also. Now we have to move the extras for another Top 4 Dman. Mitts isn’t the top 6 centre we thought we needed. He can and will (Adams..) be replaced. Byram is not >> Mitts. Bryam is not a step in a half above Power. He is not even equal to power. Krebs was given a good look this past year. I saw nothing indicating he should be given the 3C job. He simply is not ready. He isn’t even a good 4C. Is this a year we win or not? We need to bring in a Lindy type defensively responsible of two way center that wins face offs and can provide secondary scoring. Krebs is not that at this time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 (edited) 3 hours ago, dudacek said: This is not his history at all. We traded Derek Roy for a guy people thought could become Duncan Keith but so far looks like he's projecting as Brandon Montour. Weren't you one of the guys who stuck by Mitts through his early struggles? Byram is 22, has played 164 NHL games and has 72 points. At 22 Mitts had played 155 NHL games and had 61 NHL points Bryam played for the Staley cup champs. Mitts played on the worst team in the league and was not ready for the NHL at the time they tossed in the lineup. Apples are better than oranges - that is your argument. Edited April 28 by Pimlach 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 Mitts is on the right team. Yet he's getting pushed off the puck a lot today. IMO it wasn't a big trade of star players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seer775 Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 (edited) 2 hours ago, Pimlach said: Byram is not >> Mitts. Bryam is not a step in a half above Power. He is not even equal to power. Krebs was given a good look this past year. I saw nothing indicating he should be given the 3C job. He simply is not ready. He isn’t even a good 4C. Is this a year we win or not? We need to bring in a Lindy type defensively responsible of two way center that wins face offs and can provide secondary scoring. Krebs is not that at this time. At 20 years old, Byram played top minutes on the Stanley Cup Champs. He wasn't along for the ride. The point of playing Krebs at 3C is to figure out what kind of return we can get for him. Right now it's looking like a 4th. We need to bump those numbers. Edited April 28 by seer775 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 Who the F cares about this? "We need to bump those numbers," no we need to make playoffs. No one gives a ratsass if we get a 3rd instead of a 4th for Krebs if we decided to trade him. To hell with playing a guy above his head to get a better trade. Play to win or forfeit the season already. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seer775 Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 (edited) 4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Who the F cares about this? "We need to bump those numbers," no we need to make playoffs. No one gives a ratsass if we get a 3rd instead of a 4th for Krebs if we decided to trade him. To hell with playing a guy above his head to get a better trade. Play to win or forfeit the season already. Sorry to burst your bubble my guy, as an avid realist, we are most likely not going to make the playoffs next year. Not without 2 blockbuster moves. KA doesn't have the balls. Edited April 28 by seer775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 (edited) 2 hours ago, Pimlach said: Bryam played for the Staley cup champs. Mitts played on the worst team in the league and was not ready for the NHL at the time they tossed in the lineup. Apples are better than oranges - that is your argument. No, my argument is Doohickey is comparing 25-year-old 350-game NHL center with a 22-year-old 160-game NHL defenceman and saying what you’ve seen is what you’re going to get. Edited April 28 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabresparaavida Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 5 hours ago, seer775 said: Not sure about that chief. Top 4 Dman, 7th in TOI/G during their 21-22 cup run. He was 20 y/o. False. Cozens has a higher ppg than Mitts at 23 y/o. Despite last year's performance, Mitts has been a no-show. This is true, however he has not returned to that level of play since. He has been decisively worse the last 2 years than during his rookie season. Generally you like to see improvements from young players, not them getting worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seer775 Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 10 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said: This is true, however he has not returned to that level of play since. He has been decisively worse the last 2 years than during his rookie season. Generally you like to see improvements from young players, not them getting worse. Yes. He has had several concussions back-to-back and missed a ton of playing time because of it. Every deal has a catch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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