Samuelsson out for the remainder of the Season

[That Aud Smell]

15 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I'd tend to think putting your body in harm's way night after night despite the obvious damage it is sustaining is the opposite of soft.

Thanks for this take. It prompted me to recall how @X. Benedict once dealt with repeated statements here (circa 06-07 and perhaps beyond) to the effect that Tim Connolly played a soft game, was a soft player. X acknowledged that, yes, Connolly was not a physical player as it's traditionally thought about, but that he was nonetheless a physically courageous player in that he routinely placed himself in dangerous situations in order to advance the puck, the play. Nothing soft about that at all. That view fundamentally and permanently changed how I viewed the player.

[Norcal]

What ever happened to Muel, the player? 

He earned the nickname Muel with his style of play and projected future play that had fans excited about his potential.

Since then, hardly anything in his play has earned that level of appreciation. 

I hate to say it but his legend might be growing along the lines of Kiko Alonso.

[PASabreFan]

43 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I'd tend to think putting your body in harm's way night after night despite the obvious damage it is sustaining is the opposite of soft.

Feel for the guy. Appreciate what he brings.

And talk about kicking people when they're down.

What's the opposite of smart then? If he can't play that style and stay in the lineup, what good is it?

It goes to the larger topic of picking your spots. What was the discussion last season? It's a 75% league? That is, smart players don't go balls to the wall starting on opening night.

[Weave]

48 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

And talk about kicking people when they're down.

We have not learned our lessons in that regard.

[xzy89c1]

1 hour ago, Marvin said:

I advise everyone to take a look at the number of games Jim Schoenfeld played each season during the 1970's.  He was not soft, but he missed a packet of games each season.  We need someone like him now.

Schoenfeld played a very physical game and fought people frequently from what iI remember. Mule is not physical, does not fight and plays in a much less physical era. 

[xzy89c1]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I'd tend to think putting your body in harm's way night after night despite the obvious damage it is sustaining is the opposite of soft.

Feel for the guy. Appreciate what he brings.

And talk about kicking people when they're down.

What does he bring again? Besides miss a good chunk of the year his play has been uneven at best. Part of that is lack of defensive commitment from players/coaches, but some of that is on him. Beaten one on one regularly. Standing around. Bad gaps on rushes. Not physical except for riding guys off puck more than being physical. 

There is difference between being injured and hurt in pro sports. Injured you can play through, but if you are hurt you cannot play. If you are a soft player injuries take you out of lineup and you get reputation for being soft especially from other players. I bet players are already talking about his softness. Players on Sabres especially.

Dahlin plays injured all the time. Compare him to Samuelson: Dahlin plays more minutes. Dahlin is much more physical. Dahlin is targeted for physical play by other team as he is our best player by far. Blocks shots etc... He does not miss much time.

 

[pi2000]

I'm guessing it's some type of shoulder injury.     Probably kept popping out on him to some degree, could be a lingering issue from a previous injury and he finally decided enough was enough.     If he has his arm in a sling we'll know for sure, not sure why they're hiding it at this point.

[shrader]

2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

I find the "soft" talk - both here on this board and elsewhere on teh interwebs (Twitter mainly) - to be ... well, not what I'd prefer to see from fellow Sabre fans. That's putting it as charitably as I can.

The player being "injury prone" is a fair discussion, or even observation.

But soft? The guy's not soft. He's unlucky, apparently. And, yes, probably injury prone. Dude had to pack it in so that he could get surgery. But that doesn't make him soft. 

I just wonder that if he’s been trying to fight through the same injury all year, wouldn’t that be the opposite of soft?

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, Night Train said:

Hurts his development, although I don't know if this organization is helping him. Another of the players they rushed to pay early and isn't anywhere near the player he should be. 

 

The paid him after 54 NHL games.  Sure, he looked good but they sure do gamble on their home grown players.  His contract isn’t terrible, the Owen Power contract is much more questionable, especially given they didn’t have to do it.   

[That Aud Smell]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

What's the opposite of smart then?

This is also arguably relevant to an assessment of Connolly.

1 hour ago, xzy89c1 said:

There is difference between being injured and hurt in pro sports. Injured you can play through, but if you are hurt you cannot play. If you are a soft player injuries take you out of lineup and you get reputation for being soft especially from other players. I bet players are already talking about his softness. Players on Sabres especially.

My remarks above were really directed to "soft" being raised in response to the guy needing season-ending surgery.

The above seems like a fair point of discussion. In his career to date, Samuelsson has regularly missed a few (or more) games here, a few (or more) games there. Does he (can he?) not play through injury like other warrior-mentality players do? If in fact he's not playing through the same dings, nicks, and knocks that other players are playing through ... then ... yeah - arguably "soft" by NHL standards? A problem with this inquiry is that we can't really know what he's not playing through.

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

I find the "soft" talk - both here on this board and elsewhere on teh interwebs (Twitter mainly) - to be ... well, not what I'd prefer to see from fellow Sabre fans. That's putting it as charitably as I can.

The player being "injury prone" is a fair discussion, or even observation.

But soft? The guy's not soft. He's unlucky, apparently. And, yes, probably injury prone. Dude had to pack it in so that he could get surgery. But that doesn't make him soft. 

 

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

I'd tend to think putting your body in harm's way night after night despite the obvious damage it is sustaining is the opposite of soft.

Feel for the guy. Appreciate what he brings.

And talk about kicking people when they're down.

Those calling him soft I suppose represent an exception, but those arguing re: his contract…that clearly has nothing to do with blaming Samuelsson. 

And if Adams is down right now, yes, I’ll kick the guy while he’s down. He’s a handsomely paid professional general manager. Do better than generally awful 

Edited February 5 by Thorny

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, Norcal said:

What ever happened to Muel, the player? 

He earned the nickname Muel with his style of play and projected future play that had fans excited about his potential.

Since then, hardly anything in his play has earned that level of appreciation. 

I hate to say it but his legend might be growing along the lines of Kiko Alonso.

Muel earned his rep because of a small, irrelevant sample size last year that led to people calling him our team mvp. It was being argued last year that we’d sooner remove *any other player* from the lineup than Samuelsson.

There absolutely needs to be pushback here after that. He’s a reasonable player that was extremely overhyped. The receipts are there, I just refuse to quote anyone. The blowback is relative 

putrid decision making process re: his contract. He’s been bad this year, but lots of players have. I still think he provides the type of value I’d like on my team: but not being in a position of, at all, needing to commit long term at the time we did, all we’ve done is take on a bunch of unnecessary risk. It’s not a comment on the player, it’s a comment on the GM

 

Edited February 5 by Thorny

[RochesterExpat]

5 hours ago, inkman said:

Great analysis. I watch most Amerks games but my focus isn’t exactly on player analysis or development.  

It's also harder to notice defensive players than offensive. I watch AHL.tv and the camera work... needs work. Novikov definitely slumped for a stretch after a pretty noticeable start, but he's been pretty steady as of late. 

His point totals aren't bad for an AHL rookie d-man at 35 GP, 1G, 12A, 13P. I know +/- may be a pretty garbage stat, but the only active D with positive +/- are Novikov at +12 and his current D partners, Metsa (+6 / 23GP) and Laaouan (+1, 1GP). Novikov leads the entire team in the stat at +12 and the next closest is a multiway tie at +6. Of course, only 6 active skaters on the Amerks are above zero, but that's a different issue.

To go back to my bit about his utilization, he's not shooting nearly as much as the other D guys and his shots-per-game was higher in the KHL. That's definitely part of the reason for the lone goal in 35 games.

4 hours ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

Good stuff. No idea how ready he is to handle the NHL in any sort of reasonable way for a 20 year old. 

Given the struggle he had with the culture shock of moving here, I think they will choose to keep him in Rochester and it would be understandable why. If he gets an NHL look, I would guess it is during a decently long home stretch. We have a four game home stretch starting tomorrow and there's the five game stretch from 3/27 to 4/5. Either of those would make sense to me.

It's also possible they don't want to call him because Rochester is contending for a playoff spot and they'd rather have him experience that.

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, xzy89c1 said:

What does he bring again? Besides miss a good chunk of the year his play has been uneven at best. Part of that is lack of defensive commitment from players/coaches, but some of that is on him. Beaten one on one regularly. Standing around. Bad gaps on rushes. Not physical except for riding guys off puck more than being physical. 

There is difference between being injured and hurt in pro sports. Injured you can play through, but if you are hurt you cannot play. If you are a soft player injuries take you out of lineup and you get reputation for being soft especially from other players. I bet players are already talking about his softness. Players on Sabres especially.

Dahlin plays injured all the time. Compare him to Samuelson: Dahlin plays more minutes. Dahlin is much more physical. Dahlin is targeted for physical play by other team as he is our best player by far. Blocks shots etc... He does not miss much time.

 

His impacts this year have been a sizeable net negative

 

he’s been OK on D, but the amount of ground he gives up to everyone else in other facets more than offsets the value he’s bringing relative to other players.

Think of it like this: maybe when he’s on the ice we give up 3 shots for every 4 that other teams do, but we *take* like 5 less shots than the other teams we are comparing to. So we get outplayed when he’s on the ice whereas not so with the other example

Edited February 5 by Thorny

[inkman]

27 minutes ago, Thorny said:

His impacts this year have been a sizeable net negative

 

he’s been OK on D, but the amount of ground he gives up to everyone else in other facets more than offsets the value he’s bringing relative to other players.

Think of it like this: maybe when he’s on the ice we give up 3 shots for every 4 that other teams do, but we *take* like 5 less shots than the other teams we are comparing to. So we get outplayed when he’s on the ice whereas not so with the other example

When he starts going all Erik Karlsson in the O zone is when me and @Getpucksdeep start cringing.  Inevitably, he’ll get caught deep, the other team immediately gets an odd mad rush and for what?  Mattias doesn’t have any tangible offensive talent so his presence deep in the offensive zone is a waste of everyone’s time.  Unless you play for the opposition, then you are praying he starts to “feel it” and get all loosey goosey in the O zone.  
 

I like (not love) Mattias.  He does things other guys on this roster don’t.  Unfortunately, no one told his body it needs to hold up for 82 of these contests.  He’ll ultimately be a 60 game player that’ll be on IR as much as he isn’t.  

[thewookie1]

3 minutes ago, inkman said:

When he starts going all Erik Karlsson in the O zone is when me and @Getpucksdeep start cringing.  Inevitably, he’ll get caught deep, the other team immediately gets an odd mad rush and for what?  Mattias doesn’t have any tangible offensive talent so his presence deep in the offensive zone is a waste of everyone’s time.  Unless you play for the opposition, then you are praying he starts to “feel it” and get all loosey goosey in the O zone.  
 

I like (not love) Mattias.  He does things other guys on this roster don’t.  Unfortunately, no one told his body it needs to hold up for 82 of these contests.  He’ll ultimately be a 60 game player that’ll be on IR as much as he isn’t.  

Have to join you on that one; he jumps up way to much and really shouldn't be.  

[Rasmus_]

Time to start considering him injury prone.  I'd strongly look to move him once he's recovered in the offseason.

[inkman]

32 minutes ago, Rasmus_ said:

Time to start considering him injury prone.  I'd strongly look to move him once he's recovered in the offseason.

Start?  Dude has been injury prone since birth.  You are the 10th person in this thread that has talked about moving him.  How many teams are looking for an injury prone, overpaid dman with no offensive skill and a suspicious ideology of his offensive abilities. 

[TageMVP]

42 minutes ago, Rasmus_ said:

Time to start considering him injury prone.  I'd strongly look to move him once he's recovered in the offseason.

I'm sick of pick and prospect trades but he's one I would trade for a pick. 

If Mittlestadt gets traded it better not be for picks/prospects 

[Thorny]

27 minutes ago, inkman said:

Start?  Dude has been injury prone since birth.  You are the 10th person in this thread that has talked about moving him.  How many teams are looking for an injury prone, overpaid dman with no offensive skill and a suspicious ideology of his offensive abilities. 

I think his bark probably still precedes his bite. There’s a lot of that Concept stuff still out there: as mentioned i think he’s a reasonable player but any GM worth his weight would continually be exploring avenues where we might find value to exploit. I could see someone overpaying. Or paying. If not, keep him 

Edited February 5 by Thorny

[That Aud Smell]

27 minutes ago, inkman said:

and a suspicious ideology of his offensive abilities. 

As one of my kid’s coaches used to pointedly observe of certain players: “Enamored of a skill set he does not possess.”