GDT: Sabres @ Rangers - 7:30pm, Dec. 23, 2023, MSG/ESPN+📺 WBEN930 📻

[Big Guava]

5 hours ago, sabresouth said:

Really, that means we would of had to score 5 goals to win the game.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You aren't going to win many games when you have to score 5 goals.

THANK YOU KA. You are brilliant. No legit goalie in how many years?

 

Really 4, which should have happened as they had 2 breakaways and a 2-1 in OT that was stopped and then the rebound to Tuch for a wide open shot was stopped. 4 chances where the likelihood of them scoring would be in the 70+% range for each of them and they scored on none of them.

Gotta score when you have that many easy chances to win.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Big Guava

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, SDS said:

Disagree with all of this, as did the ref who was on the ice looking at it. 

Yup.  The ref didn’t call anything.  And we know the refs were flawless last night.  

Edited December 24, 2023 by Pimlach

[SDS]

8 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

 

Once again, the response was not about the hit.  It was to send a message to the league that the Sabres will not just going to take it anymore.

EJ even stated that after the game.

As someone who has stated that it was a clean hit to my eyes, I think responding to a clean hit is a ridiculous thing to do. What’s next? Running players who take slapshots? 

What was the result of the message? The Sabres are going to give up a PowerPlay, be down players for significant time and still lose the game? Oh no. Look out everyone. We’re sending messages! Don’t hit our players shoulder to shoulder in the boards or you just might win the game!

[PASabreFan]

Can you imagine the NFL clearing the area around a cleanly sacked QB and letting an offensive lineman pummel a linebacker?

To send a message.

[Marvin]

15 minutes ago, SDS said:

As someone who has stated that it was a clean hit to my eyes, I think responding to a clean hit is a ridiculous thing to do. What’s next? Running players who take slapshots? 

What was the result of the message? The Sabres are going to give up a PowerPlay, be down players for significant time and still lose the game? Oh no. Look out everyone. We’re sending messages! Don’t hit our players shoulder to shoulder in the boards or you just might win the game!

The guy left his feet and, at least from Johnson's vantage point, targeted the head.  That was why the whole bench was going nuts.  As a former defenceman, I would consider that enough of a provocation to send a message.

[Thorny]

 

Things are looking up. The important thing to remember is we are only 2 games in to the *officially official* Kevyn Adams rebuild. If we have patience, no reason we can’t expect playoffs in a few years 

Edited December 24, 2023 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

We're up to the 5th season in a row.

Yes as to the Ullmark situation plus, but I am talking about a playoff-caliber team.  Had we had just decent goaltending last season we'd have made the playoffs and I think if we had consistent decent goaltending this season we'd be at least near a playoff spot despite the injuries up front.  

[WhenWillItEnd66]

KA needs to make a big move to push this team over the bump.  Do not wait for 2 more months, do it now!!! (After the freeze) There is no reason to hold onto all the capital,  cause they will not all play for the blue and gold. Time for KA to earn his keep and make this team better. 

Edited December 24, 2023 by WhenWillItEnd66

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Yes, a Vezina quality goalie was the difference.  UPL was pretty good until the big mistake.  
 

I think the hole that the Sabres have dug is a large one.  Until the first line decides to be our best line the W/L roller coaster will continue.  

I have repeatedly said this before during the Ullmark contract saga so I don't want to get into a "what if" sad song reciting. But "what if" KA would had shown more flexibility and signed Ullmark to the contract that the player wanted? We would have been a playoff team last year, and our season this year would certainly be better. We had a good NHL netminder in our system, and we allowed him to walk. It was a foolish mistake that has had major repercussions. 

[SABRES 0311]

Read an article from Hockey News that states a ref allegedly told the Sabres EJ was getting the extra two minutes because the Sabres ran their mouths in the first. 

I have no way to judge if this happened or credibility of anyone in the reporting chain.

[bunomatic]

45 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Read an article from Hockey News that states a ref allegedly told the Sabres EJ was getting the extra two minutes because the Sabres ran their mouths in the first. 

I have no way to judge if this happened or credibility of anyone in the reporting chain.

It’s obvious that officials form biases during the game as a result of percieved slights by players and coaches, some do their best to remain neutral , others not so well. But I’ve never heard an official outright admit to fixing the game to get back at someone or a team. It seems like he’s done that. You could surmise every call and none call in the game was slanted to the Rags because of the Sabres mouthing off.

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Read an article from Hockey News that states a ref allegedly told the Sabres EJ was getting the extra two minutes because the Sabres ran their mouths in the first. 

I have no way to judge if this happened or credibility of anyone in the reporting chain.

 

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, Pimlach said:

The league does not allow clean hits to be avenged, but they just don’t call boarding consistently and they give out game misconducts inconsistently.  See the Evander Kane hit and the Eric Robinson hit.  There are other examples too.   

RJ was boarded, the puck was gone, the hit was unnecessary - so clean or not clean does not matter, the hit did not help the Rangers get puck possession, which is the stated purpose of a body check.   

He could have called 2 for boarding and then EJ would have taken the power play, there would have been no fight.  He called nothing which usually leads to the fight, which caused the Sabres being over penalized.   This fight is on the ref.   

The game was poorly officiated.   The league should crack down on that instead.  They let things go, then they get upset when the team that feels wronged responds   

Hockey is a violent game.  Fighting is still a part of it, although now a small part of it.   At least it is for the successful teams that win cups.  Lots of people don’t want to accept it, they should probably watch golf instead.  

I don't accept fighting. It should be completely banned. It's archaic and creates a safety risk for the pugilists. There are already enough inherent health risks for the players when playing. The best way to retaliate against another player is to legally body check the opposition. Playing hard and tough have nothing to do with fighting. I enjoy watching hockey; I don't like hooliganism. Fighting is not allowed in college hockey and in the Olympics. Ask yourself why? 

[Taro T]

8 hours ago, bunomatic said:

It’s obvious that officials form biases during the game as a result of percieved slights by players and coaches, some do their best to remain neutral , others not so well. But I’ve never heard an official outright admit to fixing the game to get back at someone or a team. It seems like he’s done that. You could surmise every call and none call in the game was slanted to the Rags because of the Sabres mouthing off.

Pretty sure that Frasier admitted he refused to review the Caps 1st goal in game 2 of the Eastern Conference Finals because he was pissed at Barnaby and Ray for having "embarrassed" Stephen Walkom in the Sabres Filly series when they were having tantrums over Walkom's horrible reffing.

Not sure if that meets your criteria, but expect it does.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

11 hours ago, JohnC said:

I don't accept fighting. It should be completely banned. It's archaic and creates a safety risk for the pugilists. There are already enough inherent health risks for the players when playing. The best way to retaliate against another player is to legally body check the opposition. Playing hard and tough have nothing to do with fighting. I enjoy watching hockey; I don't like hooliganism. Fighting is not allowed in college hockey and in the Olympics. Ask yourself why? 

This I agree with, but that does not change my view that what EJ did was awesome.

[Pimlach]

13 hours ago, JohnC said:

I don't accept fighting. It should be completely banned. It's archaic and creates a safety risk for the pugilists. There are already enough inherent health risks for the players when playing. The best way to retaliate against another player is to legally body check the opposition. Playing hard and tough have nothing to do with fighting. I enjoy watching hockey; I don't like hooliganism. Fighting is not allowed in college hockey and in the Olympics. Ask yourself why? 

Don’t accept it then. Not sure what that does but if it makes you feel good then don’t watch it.  
 

I don’t accept inconsistent officiating which is quite often the cause for fighting.   I also don’t accept biased officiating, which sounds like what happened in the Rangers game.  

Edited December 25, 2023 by Pimlach

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

This I agree with, but that does not change my view that what EJ did was awesome.

It wasn't that long ago that Cozens deliberately got into a fight (instigated it) in order to energize his teammates. He got his face punched in and got injured. His play after that faded. How would you have felt if he ended up with a serious concussion that cost him the season or even his career? Thankfully, the hooligan era of fighting has been severely curtailed. There is no need for it at all. My recommendation would be to play harder and tougher. Dropping the gloves accomplishes nothing good. And when it happens it raises the risks of injuries. It's unnecessary. 

[Pimlach]

17 hours ago, bunomatic said:

It’s obvious that officials form biases during the game as a result of percieved slights by players and coaches, some do their best to remain neutral , others not so well. But I’ve never heard an official outright admit to fixing the game to get back at someone or a team. It seems like he’s done that. You could surmise every call and none call in the game was slanted to the Rags because of the Sabres mouthing off.

It also obvious that teams that are known to be physical get away with bad hits more than teams that are not. When a team retaliates they usually get the more severe penalty.  The irony is retaliatory action often come from the ref not making a call.  
 

The officiating in the NHL closely resembles that of professional (fake) wrestling.  

Edited December 25, 2023 by Pimlach

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Don’t accept it then. Not sure what that does but if it makes you feel good then don’t watch it.  
 

I don’t accept inconsistent officiating which is quite often the cause for fighting.   I anlso don’t accept biased officiating, which sounds like what happened in the Rangers game.  

There is no question the officiating in this game was uneven. It's uneven in all sports. What's your solution? Beat up the referees. 

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

There is no question the officiating in this game was uneven. It's uneven in all sports. What's your solution? Beat up the referees. 

How about the proper use of replays for starters?   How about NOT penalizing a team for a challenge?  How about calling penalties in a consistent manner (I already mentioned the boarding examples).  
 

Grade the referees and disciplinary action, including fines. They are a joke.  Worst in all the major sports.  
 

 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

How about the proper use of replays for starters?   How about NOT penalizing a team for a challenge?  How about calling penalties in a consistent manner (I already mentioned the boarding examples).  
 

Grade the referees and disciplinary action, including fines. They are a joke.  Worst in all the major sports.  
 

 

What does fighting have to do with bad refereeing? It's a problem in all sports. 

[Pimlach]

33 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What does fighting have to do with bad refereeing? It's a problem in all sports. 

You’re talking about fighting.  I’m talking about the missed call on the boarding, the abusive call on the Sabres for the extra 2 minutes, the ridiculous extra misconduct calls resulting in 37 minutes plus a game on the Sabres - all because the ref missed a dangerous and late hit on a vulnerable player.   They now say they were upset because we were running our mouths in the first period.  All this after the NHL said they were cracking down on boarding (missed Kane hit) when they gave Eric Robinson a game misconduct.   Only to see the officiating miss yet another call a week later when a player got hurt on a boarding.   

After all that,  you sarcastically asked me if they should beat up the refs.   I gave you several options to address bad officiating.   

I will explain this once more.  The missed call on the Ryan Johnson hit led to the fight.  Fighting is all but eliminated in the NHL, but you still see it, mostly when a team feels the officials did not do their job.  Then the team will respond.  I support that.  The alternative is Lucic-Miller.   I won’t support or respect a team that does not support themselves.  

Edited December 25, 2023 by Pimlach

[PASabreFan]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

You’re talking about fighting.  I’m talking about the missed call on the boarding, the abusive call on the Sabres for the extra 2 minutes, the ridiculous extra misconduct calls resulting in 37 minutes plus a game on the Sabres - all because the ref missed a dangerous and late hit on a vulnerable player.   They now say they were upset because we were running our mouths in the first period.  All this after the NHL said they were cracking down on boarding (missed Kane hit) when they gave Eric Robinson a game misconduct.   Only to see the officiating miss yet another call a week later when a player got hurt on a boarding.   

After all that,  you sarcastically asked me if they should beat up the refs.   I gave you several options to address bad officiating.   

I will explain this once more.  The missed call on the Ryan Johnson hit led to the fight.  Fighting is all but eliminated in the NHL, but you still see it, mostly when a team feels the officials did not do their job.  Then the team will respond.  I support that.  The alternative is Lucic-Miller.   I won’t support or respect a team that does not support themselves.  

Dangerous and late on a vulnerable player. It wasn't late. Have you watched a replay? Next the NHL requires a player to be defenseless for a boarding penalty to be imposed, which is a fair bit different than vulnerable. Was Ryan Johnson defenseless? That would suggest he had no idea he was about to be hit. I think he knew it. He did react. So IMHO he was vulnerable but not defenseless. The NHL then needs to see that the hit is violent or dangerous. As usual these are murky terms in the rulebook. All hits to some degree are violent and or dangerous. Do we want all hits where the player being hit contacts the boards to be a penalty? Of course not. The Ranger did not charge the Sabre. He didn't leap into him. He didn't target the head. The contact was on the upper chest. There was no elbow. The Sabre was close to the boards, but was not propelled into the boards in an especially dangerous way. In every sense of the word and the rules, it was a clean hit. Ole Punch should just admit he's come around to the 2023 worldview that clean hits must be avenged.

Two more things. Most including print journalist for the Sabres Lance L. are conveniently leaving out Erik Johnson's laying the wood on the Ranger after the hit. That's the extra two. Then, this idea that the Sabres whine to the refs makes me dislike them even more.

The refs are against us. The losing culture is so engrained in the team and fans.

[mjd1001]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

It wasn't that long ago that Cozens deliberately got into a fight (instigated it) in order to energize his teammates. He got his face punched in and got injured. His play after that faded. How would you have felt if he ended up with a serious concussion that cost him the season or even his career? Thankfully, the hooligan era of fighting has been severely curtailed. There is no need for it at all. My recommendation would be to play harder and tougher. Dropping the gloves accomplishes nothing good. And when it happens it raises the risks of injuries. It's unnecessary. 

I understand your bigger point, but up through that game Cozens has 7 points through 11 games, just over a 50 point pace.

Since then he has 12 points in 22 games, about a 45 point pace.  He hasn't been setting the world in fire recently, and honestly he wasn't even before he got hurt.

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Dangerous and late on a vulnerable player. It wasn't late. Have you watched a replay? Next the NHL requires a player to be defenseless for a boarding penalty to be imposed, which is a fair bit different than vulnerable. Was Ryan Johnson defenseless? That would suggest he had no idea he was about to be hit. I think he knew it. He did react. So IMHO he was vulnerable but not defenseless. The NHL then needs to see that the hit is violent or dangerous. As usual these are murky terms in the rulebook. All hits to some degree are violent and or dangerous. Do we want all hits where the player being hit contacts the boards to be a penalty? Of course not. The Ranger did not charge the Sabre. He didn't leap into him. He didn't target the head. The contact was on the upper chest. There was no elbow. The Sabre was close to the boards, but was not propelled into the boards in an especially dangerous way. In every sense of the word and the rules, it was a clean hit. Ole Punch should just admit he's come around to the 2023 worldview that clean hits must be avenged.

Two more things. Most including print journalist for the Sabres Lance L. are conveniently leaving out Erik Johnson's laying the wood on the Ranger after the hit. That's the extra two. Then, this idea that the Sabres whine to the refs makes me dislike them even more.

The refs are against us. The losing culture is so engrained in the team and fans.

Where were you to defend Robinson’s BS ejection the other night. Your need to appear to be fair and balanced is kinda funny.

And other than Cuylle leaving his feet, which he did do (anyone who says both feet didn't leave the ice isn't watching), it was a clean hit and by the rules, an instigator penalty was warranted. I'm just wondering why the same was(or ever) not applied when it's the Sabres who do the hitting.

Edited December 25, 2023 by SwampD