Sabres Alumni and Team Culture

[PerreaultForever]

I was watching this thing that popped up on youtube about the Bruins training camp. They have all these alumni coming in and talking with the kids one on one, hanging around practice, giving advice, all kinds of mentoring type things.

So I was wondering, since the Sabres don't do as good a job of marketing as the Bruins, do the Sabres do this too? Honest question. I really don't know. I'm thinking however, that with the massive amount of youth on this team we definitely need a lot of this sort of thing. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I'm not sure, but if something like this was happening I think we would have heard about it.

I do remember something about Anderson coming in to talk with and mentor Levi, but I don't know if that was in the summer or is happening now.

[Randall Flagg]

There has been a very public theme of connecting to the fanbase and the past/history of the franchise with this regime to the point where players constantly bring it up unprompted. Some of this involved things like RJ and Miller night, where many alumni were around and certainly engaging with the team. I'm not sure how much of that was formal mentorship if any, but I don't think there's some magic button the Sabres aren't pressing in that area. 

[Taro T]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I was watching this thing that popped up on youtube about the Bruins training camp. They have all these alumni coming in and talking with the kids one on one, hanging around practice, giving advice, all kinds of mentoring type things.

So I was wondering, since the Sabres don't do as good a job of marketing as the Bruins, do the Sabres do this too? Honest question. I really don't know. I'm thinking however, that with the massive amount of youth on this team we definitely need a lot of this sort of thing. 

Good question.  Do know that there are a LOT of alumni still in the area and the Sabres Alumni Association is quite active with local charitable events.  Don't know how much, if any, they get involved with formalized interactions with the current players.

[PASabreFan]

I'd keep our glorious alumni away. Don't need our current players to hear all about how they could never win in this city or that. I believe the longtime training, medical, equipment and broadcasting staff infect them enough.

Don't you ever wonder why every franchise has at least a few houses of horror?

[R_Dudley]

Well that definitely appears to happen more with the Amerks than I hear /read about with the Sabre's but of course I'm an out-of-town voyeur so maybe I'm just missing out on that insider information. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by R_Dudley

[GASabresIUFAN]

Wasn't Craig Anderson at camp?  Aren't alumni Ellis, Mair, and Kennedy part of the coaching and development staff? (Thereby proving that those who can't teach).

I wish they'd hire Gaustad to teach the current Sabres how to win a friggin draw.

Edited October 17, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[JohnRobertEichel]

14 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I'd keep our glorious alumni away. Don't need our current players to hear all about how they could never win in this city or that. I believe the longtime training, medical, equipment and broadcasting staff infect them enough.

Don't you ever wonder why every franchise has at least a few houses of horror?

Terry has yet to reach out to me, but I'd be happy to mentor if he gives me a call.

[mjd1001]

I don't think it would matter much.  The coaching staff and management probably wouldn't want older guys coming in talking about 'hockey' to this team...guys who played when the game was basically a different game. Plus, this management team/coaching staff/development staff has (and has had) former NHL guys on it who have 'kept up' with the game.  As far as the 'culture' of the team/area/city, going to a Bills game and meeting guys like Josh Allen on the sideline probably means more to these guys than talking to Alumni that played when most of these guys weren't even alive.

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Wasn't Craig Anderson at camp?  Aren't alumni Ellis, Mair, and Kennedy part of the coaching and development staff? (Thereby proving that those who can't teach).

I wish they'd hire Gaustad to teach the current Sabres how to win a friggin draw.

It's not just about coaching though, it's about teaching these kids about what it takes. Work ethic and commitment and that sort of thing.  

4 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I don't think it would matter much.  The coaching staff and management probably wouldn't want older guys coming in talking about 'hockey' to this team...guys who played when the game was basically a different game. Plus, this management team/coaching staff/development staff has (and has had) former NHL guys on it who have 'kept up' with the game.  As far as the 'culture' of the team/area/city, going to a Bills game and meeting guys like Josh Allen on the sideline probably means more to these guys than talking to Alumni that played when most of these guys weren't even alive.

Really? Is it a "different" game? The Bruins guys were all talking about pride wearing the jersey, dedication, hard work, giving your  all every night. Didn't hear a single word that was "different" from what it takes today. 

idk, I get a sense this is what is missing and our culture here suffers and so the team keeps losing. 

[mjd1001]

30 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's not just about coaching though, it's about teaching these kids about what it takes. Work ethic and commitment and that sort of thing.  

Really? Is it a "different" game? The Bruins guys were all talking about pride wearing the jersey, dedication, hard work, giving your  all every night. Didn't hear a single word that was "different" from what it takes today. 

idk, I get a sense this is what is missing and our culture here suffers and so the team keeps losing. 

Yep, I thin it is a different game.  Hitting isn't as important. Fighting doesn't happen hardly at all and you don't have to have a certain percentage of your roster devoted to it.  20 years ago hardly any teams employed any kind of trap. Lots of other subtle changes. I think it is a much different game.  Look no further than coaches....Guys like Sutter, Keenan, Torts, and Mike Babcock either can't get jobs anymore of when they do they don't last long...yet guys like Granato and others that embrace analytics are more in fashion now.  A guy like Patrice Bergeron in today's decade gets credit for knowing when to turn away from a hit, not finishing a check because it got him back in the play quicker. In the 1990's he'd be doing sprints in practice for not finishing a check. Guys are being taught and play the game in a different way than in the past.

Edited October 17, 2023 by mjd1001

[Zamboni]

It’s funny to me … to think talking to guys who played in the 70’s and 80’s will make a difference. 

“Hey Youngblood! Drink JD and smoke an unfiltered camel just before the game. It will help you find that extra gear when it counts. Treat your body like playground errrr I mean a temple”.

”Hey Whipper Snapper! If you plow four random women a week, and snort coke off the ass off the local bicycle just before you walk into the Aud errr the arena, you will be soooo extra super duper motivated to kick ass! That young man, is how you be a pro’s pro. Now excuse me as I read my AARP magazine on the toilet”.

[dudacek]

16 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I was watching this thing that popped up on youtube about the Bruins training camp. They have all these alumni coming in and talking with the kids one on one, hanging around practice, giving advice, all kinds of mentoring type things.

So I was wondering, since the Sabres don't do as good a job of marketing as the Bruins, do the Sabres do this too? Honest question. I really don't know. I'm thinking however, that with the massive amount of youth on this team we definitely need a lot of this sort of thing. 

Connecting to the community and to the history of the franchise has been a repeated talking point from the organization for about 2 1/2 years now. I'd go as far to say as it has been a central platform in Adams' plan. It's manifested itself most notably in events and people such as RJ and Miller jersey nights and the RJ memorial, but it also seems to be an ongoing thing tied to smaller events and off-ice sessions including alumni like Biron and Danny Gare.

"Wanting to be here" isn't just about attracting free agents, it's about guys like Peterka and Krebs identifying themselves as Sabres, first and foremost: recognizing what the crest has meant to people, and wanting to be part of it. It's clear from listening to the players that they know what the relationship between team and city can be and they want to recreate it.

The Sabres have also, post lockout, invested a significant amount of resources in expanding their coaching and development staff in order to give the youngsters an extraordinary amount of 1-on-1 time with the youth both on and off the team, teaching them how to be pros; This includes veteran NHLers like Peca, Weber, Paestch, Mair, Girardi, Kennedy, Ellis... Guys like Ryan Johnson and Matt Savoie have talked about what a great and constant presence these guys have been for them.

They've also very much targeted guys like Anderson, Okposo, Girgensons, and Johnson for their locker room specifically for the same reason.

Now is this the same thing as Terry O'Reilly stopping by practice for an hour? Not exactly, but I think it's pretty clear Adams is both conscious of the need to teach these kids how to be pros and is proactive about addressing it. Same thing for sharing with them the culture of the community. I kinda think you need your Marchands and Bergerons in the room before an Eichel is ever going to give a ***** about Rick Middleton and Danny Gare, anyway. Hopefully Dahlin and Cozens are becoming that.

When you say " idk, I get a sense this is what is missing and our culture here suffers and so the team keeps losing" I think you are 2 years behind the times, unless you think a 10-year culture vacuum is something that can be repaired overnight.

These things definitely have been issues. Steps have been taken to see them addressed. The team has improved since the process started.

We'll see how much in April.

Edited October 17, 2023 by dudacek

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Yep, I thin it is a different game.  Hitting isn't as important. Fighting doesn't happen hardly at all and you don't have to have a certain percentage of your roster devoted to it.  20 years ago hardly any teams employed any kind of trap. Lots of other subtle changes. I think it is a much different game.  Look no further than coaches....Guys like Sutter, Keenan, Torts, and Mike Babcock either can't get jobs anymore of when they do they don't last long...yet guys like Granato and others that embrace analytics are more in fashion now.  A guy like Patrice Bergeron in today's decade gets credit for knowing when to turn away from a hit, not finishing a check because it got him back in the play quicker. In the 1990's he'd be doing sprints in practice for not finishing a check. Guys are being taught and play the game in a different way than in the past.

Sabres go 0-3 imo they should ALL be put to doing wind sprints. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Connecting to the community and to the history of the franchise has been a repeated talking point from the organization for about 2 1/2 years now. I'd go as far to say as it has been a central platform in Adams' plan. It's manifested itself most notably in events and people such as RJ and Miller jersey nights and the RJ memorial, but it also seems to be an ongoing thing tied to smaller events and off-ice sessions including alumni like Biron and Danny Gare.

"Wanting to be here" isn't just about attracting free agents, it's about guys like Peterka and Krebs identifying themselves as Sabres, first and foremost: recognizing what the crest has meant to people, and wanting to be part of it. It's clear from listening to the players that they know what the relationship between team and city can be and they want to recreate it.

The Sabres have also, post lockout, invested a significant amount of resources in expanding their coaching and development staff in order to give the youngsters an extraordinary amount of 1-on-1 time with the youth both on and off the team, teaching them how to be pros; This includes veteran NHLers like Peca, Weber, Paestch, Mair, Girardi, Kennedy, Ellis... Guys like Ryan Johnson and Matt Savoie have talked about what a great and constant presence these guys have been for them.

They've also very much targeted guys like Anderson, Okposo, Girgensons, and Johnson for their locker room specifically for the same reason.

Now is this the same thing as Terry O'Reilly stopping by practice for an hour? Not exactly, but I think it's pretty clear Adams is both conscious of the need to teach these kids how to be pros and is proactive about addressing it. Same thing for sharing with them the culture of the community. I kinda think you need your Marchands and Bergerons in the room before an Eichel is ever going to give a ***** about Rick Middleton and Danny Gare, anyway. Hopefully Dahlin and Cozens are becoming that.

When you say " idk, I get a sense this is what is missing and our culture here suffers and so the team keeps losing" I think you are 2 years behind the times, unless you think a 10-year culture vacuum is something that can be repaired overnight.

These things definitely have been issues. Steps have been taken to see them addressed. The team has improved since the process started.

We'll see how much in April.

Well that's fair, so maybe it's a question of speed and degree like most things here and I know what the young guys have said publicly but I'm not sure if they have the same feeling for what the logo means as you see on a team like the Bruins (there are other examples but I know them better). Honestly I'm not even sure IF the logo does mean anything. 

There's a bunch of guys who were Sabres on staff, but there's a decided absence of the biggest names in Sabres history and a presence of what it meant for real. When guys like Perreault and LaFontaine are alienated and absent there's a void. We don't have the Dudleys and Schoenfelds and others from glory years in the fold like the Bruins do. We aren't an original 6, that's true, but we do have a rich history in the distant past and I don't see enough of that coming forward to the current generation. 

I suppose my view is ultimately triggered by my annoyance that we let Peca go instead of making him an assistant behind the bench (his skill set and knowledge and ethic is exactly what this team needs) and our approach that puts SO MANY kids in the line up unbalanced by a veteran presence. Yes we have Girgs and Okposo and added Johnson but it's just NOT ENOUGH. 

Most of all if today this team goes 0-3 and Rob Ray etc ( on the payroll) is  talking about a "good effort" and "learning from this" etc you know there's something fundamentally wrong. 0 and 3 SHOULD be considered unacceptable. 

[Curt]

13 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well that's fair, so maybe it's a question of speed and degree like most things here and I know what the young guys have said publicly but I'm not sure if they have the same feeling for what the logo means as you see on a team like the Bruins (there are other examples but I know them better). Honestly I'm not even sure IF the logo does mean anything. 

There's a bunch of guys who were Sabres on staff, but there's a decided absence of the biggest names in Sabres history and a presence of what it meant for real. When guys like Perreault and LaFontaine are alienated and absent there's a void. We don't have the Dudleys and Schoenfelds and others from glory years in the fold like the Bruins do. We aren't an original 6, that's true, but we do have a rich history in the distant past and I don't see enough of that coming forward to the current generation. 

I suppose my view is ultimately triggered by my annoyance that we let Peca go instead of making him an assistant behind the bench (his skill set and knowledge and ethic is exactly what this team needs) and our approach that puts SO MANY kids in the line up unbalanced by a veteran presence. Yes we have Girgs and Okposo and added Johnson but it's just NOT ENOUGH. 

Most of all if today this team goes 0-3 and Rob Ray etc ( on the payroll) is  talking about a "good effort" and "learning from this" etc you know there's something fundamentally wrong. 0 and 3 SHOULD be considered unacceptable. 

Honestly, I think what is itching at you most is the bolded.  Not necessarily that the Sabres logo means nothing, but if we are going to be 100% honest, the Bruins logo does mean more, at least right now.  They have been a model NHL franchise the past 20 years, and the Sabres have been mostly a mess, off the ice almost as much as on it.

Thats what Adams is trying to improve.  He is trying to instill in this group of young guys that the logo, the organization, and representing the city means something special.  We can discuss whether he has made all the right moves (he hasn’t) but Adams is definitely putting emphasis on trying to instill a real pride in this organization.

[peater moss]

I’m a long time Habs fan.

take it from me, the young players don’t want to hear from a 60-70 year old man about days gone by.

it’a a waste of time to today’s players.

They don’t care.

just like when you hear young players talking about original 6 teams/games.

 

they have no idea what they are talking about, just old time / time gone by BS.

 

 

 

[Doohickie]

11 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I wish they'd hire Gaustad to teach the current Sabres how to win a friggin draw.

They did okay against TB

[Two or less]

22 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I was watching this thing that popped up on youtube about the Bruins training camp. They have all these alumni coming in and talking with the kids one on one, hanging around practice, giving advice, all kinds of mentoring type things.

So I was wondering, since the Sabres don't do as good a job of marketing as the Bruins, do the Sabres do this too? Honest question. I really don't know. I'm thinking however, that with the massive amount of youth on this team we definitely need a lot of this sort of thing. 

 

Forget where i heard it, probably Sabres Live, so take it for what it's worth, but they said Sabres have one of the tighter alumni's in the league in terms of activities they do and how often they get together for functions, golf tournaments, attend games, ect.

That said, you are right, i dont ever really recall them coming and giving speeches to players besides Ryan Miller but that was after his jersey-retirement. I wonder if one of the reasons is Boston has a rich history of winning, meanwhile Sabres, for much of their existence, have been pretty bad.

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

They did okay against TB

Yep. Some games will be over 50%. And some won’t. Opponent kinda matters. 😂

 

That being said, if Krebs and Thompson could improve that skill, that would be great.

[PerreaultForever]

42 minutes ago, Two or less said:

 

Forget where i heard it, probably Sabres Live, so take it for what it's worth, but they said Sabres have one of the tighter alumni's in the league in terms of activities they do and how often they get together for functions, golf tournaments, attend games, ect.

That said, you are right, i dont ever really recall them coming and giving speeches to players besides Ryan Miller but that was after his jersey-retirement. I wonder if one of the reasons is Boston has a rich history of winning, meanwhile Sabres, for much of their existence, have been pretty bad.

Well that's true, but we do have several winning eras. We've been good in the playoffs and been to the cup final. We were a pretty good franchise before the last 12 years. I just think it might be useful if the history was more front and center and the kids could say "I want us to be more like those guys". Tuch probably appreciates that, but since we don't have many veterans on the team having alumni come in and talk about what it takes to be a winner would help this team. I think it would anyway. 

[...]

So, Anderson has been brought up in this thread. Here was there tonight in the locker room after the game.

See video: https://www.nhl.com/sabres/video/victory-speech-6339363300112

As an aside, somewhere within this conversation I think a complaint about letting Michael Peca get away from the organization is warranted. I like Matt Ellis and some of the other guys but none of them are Michael Peca.

[GASabresIUFAN]

11 hours ago, Doohickie said:

They did okay against TB

You do realize that after 3 games the Sabres are 31st in the NHL with 40.5% FOW.  

[LabattBlue]

10 hours ago, Zamboni said:

Yep. Some games will be over 50%. And some won’t. Opponent kinda matters. 😂

 

That being said, if Krebs and Thompson could improve that skill, that would be great.

With practice and determination, a bad faceoff guy should at the very least become a 50% guy.  Sorry, but no excuse for being around 40%, let alone a lot worse. 

[Pimlach]

18 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's not just about coaching though, it's about teaching these kids about what it takes. Work ethic and commitment and that sort of thing.  

Really? Is it a "different" game? The Bruins guys were all talking about pride wearing the jersey, dedication, hard work, giving your  all every night. Didn't hear a single word that was "different" from what it takes today. 

idk, I get a sense this is what is missing and our culture here suffers and so the team keeps losing. 

The only recent group of players that can even talk about pride and winning is the mid 2000's group of Briere, Drury, Grier, Miller, Vanek, Pommer, Lindy, etc.   That was 15 years ago and some left unceremoniously.  Many of these players work for other teams now and identify with them.   Heck, Mike Peca and Phil  Housley are Rangers now.  

The culture of Buffalo Sabres hockey has been seriously fractured and replaced by losing - and more precisely by tanking, by self induced suffering, by bad coaches, unqualified GMs, a revolving door of change and commotion, young players wanting out, extremely bad ownership, and an overall acceptance and expectation of losing.   The Sabres alumni came out strong to greet and support Pegula when he took over.  

We don't have what the Bruins have, we did at one time, for awhile, but we lost it.  

Kevyn Adams and Don Granato are not perfect, they are both learning on the job - both are works in progress - but they know enough to realize that a culture change is needed, just as it was for the Bills.   So they are going slow and building from within (draft and develop), its their only choice.  Even with this team on an upswing, we are still hearing about trades being foiled because the person we want won't come here (Pesce, Murray, and probably even more). 

The culture change, and the winning, is coming but it will take much more than alumni support, it will be from the current core maturing and winning and setting a standard.  It will take an much improved level of stability and commitment in the hockey front office to keep the winning going.