Would you trade Devon Levi for Connor Hellebuyck with a contract extension?

[Weave]

7 hours ago, Turbo44 said:

I think he can sign a korpisalo type that costs no assets other than $$. And the cap is no issue for at least a few years. Korpisalo would be an huge upgrade over UPL and Comrie and probably an upgrade over Levi is his stage of development. Granted, if you sign him you have to trade UPL and probably hope Comrie clears waivers to Rochester. 

Sure.  He can. My position since the end of our season is, he will choose to run with what is already under contract.

[nfreeman]

10 hours ago, Turbo44 said:

I think he can sign a korpisalo type that costs no assets other than $$. And the cap is no issue for at least a few years. Korpisalo would be an huge upgrade over UPL and Comrie and probably an upgrade over Levi is his stage of development. Granted, if you sign him you have to trade UPL and probably hope Comrie clears waivers to Rochester. 

I think a Korpie-type acquisition is the most likely outcome.  I don't think KA will give up any of his prized assets for Helly or Hart (and I agree with that decision, FWIW), and I think the sellers will demand some of those assets in order to make a deal -- which means the price for them will be too high.  There will be goalies a tier below Helly and Hart -- but still a tier or 2 above UPL and Comrie -- who will be more interested in a 2-year deal with Buffalo now than they were the last couple of summers.  I think KA will procure one of them, try to trade UPL and try to get Comrie through waivers to Rochester.

[Taro T]

On 6/10/2023 at 12:19 PM, Brawndo said:

There was an Athletic Article on how Bob Essensa the Bruins Goaltending Coach made a small tweak in Ullmark’s Style and how much he improved as a result. 
 

 

Yeah, well, #### Bob Essensa and the horse he rode out on.

Biggest flop by far in a Sabres uni.  Granted at that stage of his career, he was only brought in as a backup.  But, not sure he could've been the backup in Ra-cha-cha at that point.

[Taro T]

On 6/10/2023 at 7:05 PM, Brawndo said:

I’m surprised there has been zero coaching changes especially with how bad the PK was last year. 

Yeah, that one is a bit of a head scratcher.  But IF they are giving Bales a pass on the GTing because of Comrie's injuries and their having believed UPL was not ready to be in the NHL (and to a fairly large degree they proved themselves right on that opinion) then it makes sense to not blame the PK on the coaching.  Your goalie is your best PKer (and the Sabres goaltending was not good) and the team used its offensive forwards on the PK way more than other teams do which seem to have been a product of that "development" philosophy they ran with.  Combine that with the injuries the team dealt with (and played through to a large extent) on D and the whole thing was a recipe for failure.

Personally, had more issue with the PP coaching.  The PP was lights out for about 6 weeks and beyond abysmal the rest of the season.  There is WAY too much talent for the PP to disappear for months at time.  Entries were bad and there was way too little movement.  Everybody and their brother knew the team was setting up for Thompson's 1 timer.

[Thorny]

23 hours ago, Taro T said:

Yeah, that one is a bit of a head scratcher.  But IF they are giving Bales a pass on the GTing because of Comrie's injuries and their having believed UPL was not ready to be in the NHL (and to a fairly large degree they proved themselves right on that opinion) then it makes sense to not blame the PK on the coaching.  Your goalie is your best PKer (and the Sabres goaltending was not good) and the team used its offensive forwards on the PK way more than other teams do which seem to have been a product of that "development" philosophy they ran with.  Combine that with the injuries the team dealt with (and played through to a large extent) on D and the whole thing was a recipe for failure.

Personally, had more issue with the PP coaching.  The PP was lights out for about 6 weeks and beyond abysmal the rest of the season.  There is WAY too much talent for the PP to disappear for months at time.  Entries were bad and there was way too little movement.  Everybody and their brother knew the team was setting up for Thompson's 1 timer.

They really have no business blaming anything on “injuries” when we were among the least injured teams in the league this last season. It’s not an area likely to find improvement, in fact it’s likely to regress. They absolutely shouldn’t be counting on that avenue for any improvement they are seeking 

[...]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

They really have no business blaming anything on “injuries” when we were among the least injured teams in the league this last season. It’s not an area likely to find improvement, in fact it’s likely to regress. They absolutely shouldn’t be counting on that avenue for any improvement they are seeking 

Didn't the majority of those injuries occur during the same period affecting mainly the defense plus the one goalie who it was hoped would "emerge"?

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, ... said:

Didn't the majority of those injuries occur during the same period affecting mainly the defense plus the one goalie who it was hoped would "emerge"?

That happens to every team. We just had it happen less 

And our lack of D depth more exposed 

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

They really have no business blaming anything on “injuries” when we were among the least injured teams in the league this last season. It’s not an area likely to find improvement, in fact it’s likely to regress. They absolutely shouldn’t be counting on that avenue for any improvement they are seeking 

Yes and no.  

Primarily IMHO because of the youth in the F ranks and only having 1 guy that is clearly past his prime and only 2 others arguably past it, they stayed astonishingly healthy at F this season.  Thompson and Tuch both missed time, but can't think of any others that missed more than a game or 2 due to injury up front.

The guy that was supposed to get the lion's share of the net this year was out for 1/2 the season and then didn't work back into the rotation until late in the year.  So, they were not one of the least injured at that position.

They also had a lot of D-men losing time to injury, mainly all at roughly the same time, and had at least 2 (and likely 3) that played significant time while hobbled by injuries they played through.  Expect that they likely were towards the middle of the pack on that front but also were likely on the more injured end of the middle 1/3 of teams.

Would expect overall the team to have roughly the same quantity of man games lost next year (the team is likely going to be even younger than last year overall) but will a bit of a more normal distribution by position.

[Flashsabre]

 

[Kr632]

55 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

 

The defense should continue to develop and Adams should improve it but this is the biggest reason I don't want to give up a lot for him. 

[Norcal]

Nah. I'd get a vet G though, if I were KA. 

[Quint]

Hunter Shepard is looking really good as goaltender for the Hershey Bars. Zach Fucale's there too. I am not a huge fan for spending big bucks on a goalie. By the time they're earning big bucks and they're available, their best days are usually behind them. Look at Bobrovsky, Matt Murray, etc. etc.. But the Sabres don't need an all-world goalie. Look at Adin Hill. He bounced around from team to team before backstopping Vegas to a cup. The key is the big, solid veteran defense and the defensive buy-in at forward. You don't have to be a great goalie to win a cup. You just have to have the right formula as a team. 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Quint

[inkman]

33 minutes ago, Quint said:

Hunter Shepard is looking really good as goaltender for the Hershey Bars. Zach Fucale's there too. I am not a huge fan for spending big bucks on a goalie. By the time they're earning big bucks and they're available, their best days are usually behind them. Look at Bobrovsky, Matt Murray, etc. etc.. But the Sabres don't need an all-world goalie. Look at Adin Hill. He bounced around from team to team before backstopping Vegas to a cup. The key is the big, solid veteran defense and the defensive buy-in at forward. You don't have to be a great goalie to win a cup. You just have to have the right formula as a team. 

So you want to go into the season with Levi and UPL?

[Brawndo]

On 6/14/2023 at 4:06 PM, Flashsabre said:

 

Kevin Woodley from InGoal Magazine was on the Jeff Marek Show on Thursday and he said basically the same thing that Hellebuyck struggles with down low east-west cross ice passes and breakaways. The Sabres gave up the 5th most cross ice passes and the most breakaways in the league.

Some defensive adjustments will be necessary should they acquire him 
 

[Weave]

4 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Kevin Woodley from InGoal Magazine was on the Jeff Marek Show on Thursday and he said basically the same thing that Hellebuyck struggles with down low east-west cross ice passes and breakaways. The Sabres gave up the 5th most cross ice passes and the most breakaways in the league.

Some defensive adjustments will be necessary should they acquire him 
 

Are there fancy stats that say there are goalies that don’t struggle with cross ice passes?  It seems to me that this is typical strategery to get a goalie moving.

[Brawndo]

Just now, Weave said:

Are there fancy stats that say there are goalies that don’t struggle with cross ice passes?  It seems to me that this is typical strategery to get a goalie moving.

Juuse Saros , Shesterkin  are two examples of goalies who have quick lateral movement post to post and are better at defending them. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

No.

[Taro T]

18 minutes ago, Weave said:

Are there fancy stats that say there are goalies that don’t struggle with cross ice passes?  It seems to me that this is typical strategery to get a goalie moving.

 

13 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Juuse Saros , Shesterkin  are two examples of goalies who have quick lateral movement post to post and are better at defending them. 

The big goalies struggle with them more than the smaller guys do typically at the NHL level because the smaller guys have to have better reflexes / reactions simply to get to the NHL.  The behemoths square up and there's nothing to shoot at.  Plus, it's tougher for the big guys to get moving when they are set (inertia is real).

And you're right that it's better to get any goalie moving, but the guys with better reflexes are going to handle the need for movement better.

PS - Levi has great lateral movement too.

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

Juuse Saros , Shesterkin  are two examples of goalies who have quick lateral movement post to post and are better at defending them. 

They happen to be two of the smaller guys, just like Levi.

[Brawndo]

2 minutes ago, French Collection said:

They happen to be two of the smaller guys, just like Levi.

This may or may not be the reason those two were specifically mentioned 

[Quint]

2 hours ago, inkman said:

So you want to go into the season with Levi and UPL?

No, Levi and Shepard.

[inkman]

2 minutes ago, Quint said:

No, Levi and Shepard.

That’s certainly a roll of the dice 

[Buffalonill]

20 minutes ago, Quint said:

No, Levi and Shepard.

That might be one of the worst ideas.  

Two rookies ?

What could go wrong

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, Quint said:

Hunter Shepard is looking really good as goaltender for the Hershey Bars. Zach Fucale's there too. I am not a huge fan for spending big bucks on a goalie. By the time they're earning big bucks and they're available, their best days are usually behind them. Look at Bobrovsky, Matt Murray, etc. etc.. But the Sabres don't need an all-world goalie. Look at Adin Hill. He bounced around from team to team before backstopping Vegas to a cup. The key is the big, solid veteran defense and the defensive buy-in at forward. You don't have to be a great goalie to win a cup. You just have to have the right formula as a team. 

You may not need a great goalie, but you certainly need great goaltending. The logical fallacy is saying that just because goaltending can be unpredictable, that there aren’t some goalies more likely than others to provide that great performance. You can’t just throw your hands up at the position and pretend any old UPL might randomly go on a Hill like run, and call it a day. Not only is Hill the exception to the rule, he was still significantly more established than the Comrie’s of the world, coming into the season 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Kevin Woodley from InGoal Magazine was on the Jeff Marek Show on Thursday and he said basically the same thing that Hellebuyck struggles with down low east-west cross ice passes and breakaways. The Sabres gave up the 5th most cross ice passes and the most breakaways in the league.

Some defensive adjustments will be necessary should they acquire him 
 

Those adjustments are necessary regardless though. The data just says that Hellebuyck struggles with the most difficult shots. Dunno why folks would be surprised by this. 

All goalies struggle more the more difficult the shot. If the exceptions to that rule are only the truly elite, like Shesterkin, ie their sv% goes down on these chances but not as relatively so, it’s not a mark against acquiring Hellebuyck, unless those guys are available. Hellebuyck’s relative “weakness” in that area is still stronger than the field, the goalies we’ve been rostering of late.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Thorny