What Should the Goals be Next Season?

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Defensive awareness.

@Taro Tmentioned in another thread about both D going below the goal line and the forwards being slow to support.

They have speed and skill to burn, just improve their defensive responsibilities.

Olofsson did exactly that the other day. Also the below the goal line is how I want the PP run. You force all 4 defenders and the goalie to turn and then they lose coverage. 

[French Collection]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Also the below the goal line is how I want the PP run. You force all 4 defenders and the goalie to turn and then they lose coverage. 

Haven’t seen much of that, any teams do it consistently?

Gretzky probably got 500 points this way.

[Pimlach]

24 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Yes, the goal is the playoffs.  But without a plan and goals that work towards that it isn't saying much.

Agree that fixing the home record is going to be paramount to getting into the playoffs.  They likely won't improve the road record much if at all and even if the team is better next year they might not have as good of a road record.

No individual goals are included because Individual success must be a byproduct of team success.   Not the other way around.  Teams’ goal is playoffs.  Simple. 
 

We know we need goaltending, better team defense, and more from the vets - I really do think different vets is part of that.  
 

The concern is that whenever player additions come up Adam’s worries about the room and/or blocking his prospects.     Ullmark is gone, in part because of prospect blocking.   The Stahl/ Hall additions still haunt him.  These things concern me about the off season.  
 

Fixing the home record is entirely up to the players.   Let’s start with Pride and bringing their lunch bucket to work.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

There are plenty of personal milestones to reach.  30 goals is still possible for VO, Skinner and Cozens.  15 for Quinn.  10+ for Krebs and JJP. 50 is still possible for Tage, who also only needs 13 points from 100 for the season.  Dahlin needs 1 goal for 15 and 12 points for 75. Power needs 2 points for 30. Mitts 8 for 50.

The last Sabres with 50+ goals and/or 100 pts were Patty and Alex in 1992/93.  Last Sabre with 90+ points was Briere in 2006/7.  Only 4 Sabres have ever scored 50. Alex, Patty, Rico and Danny.  Only 5 Sabres have ever reached 100 pts in a season; Gilbert (2), Alex, Patty, Robert and Turgeon. Only 9 players have had a 90+ point season; Gilbert (5)  Patty (3), Hawerchuk (2), Briere, Turgeon, Andreychuk, Martin, Mogilny and Robert with 1 each.

Last D with 70+ points was Housley in  1989/90.  Last D to 15 goals was Zhitnik in 1997/98 and last D to 60 points was Housley as well. Only 3 D in Sabres history have had 60+ in a season.  Dahlin (1), Van Boxmeer (2), Housley (8).  

From a team standing point, winning 7 games down the stretch will give them 40 wins; the most since 43 in 2010-2011.  Scoring 8 more goals will give them their highest output since 2006-07’s 308.  Scoring 34 more goals will match the output from 1993-94 with 282, besting 2005-06’s 281.  

They have allowed 256 goals against.  Right now we are a minus 8 for the season. If they can keep it here, they’ll finish with their best differential since 2011-12 when they were -12 for the season.

Edited March 20, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[thewookie1]

This year: Finish the season good, break out of this slump

Next year: Make the playoffs barring crippling injuries to Dahlin/Thompson for half the year

Use everything at your disposal besides Savoie, Kulich, Levi and (likely this year's 1st prospect) to generally upgrade the team as a whole.

[PASabreFan]

16 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

This year: Finish the season good, break out of this slump

Next year: Make the playoffs barring crippling injuries to Dahlin/Thompson for half the year

Use everything at your disposal besides Savoie, Kulich, Levi and (likely this year's 1st prospect) to generally upgrade the team as a whole.

Just to play Devil's Advocate, why are we taking marketable pieces off the table in an attempt to get better now? How far out are we pushing the window? Wheni is Kulich a contributor on a playoff team?

I suppose I have to agree Levi is untouchable, but beyond that...

[thewookie1]

14 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Just to play Devil's Advocate, why are we taking marketable pieces off the table in an attempt to get better now? How far out are we pushing the window? Wheni is Kulich a contributor on a playoff team?

I suppose I have to agree Levi is untouchable, but beyond that...

Kulich and Savoie are the next wave; we need them as replacements and skilled fillers.

Levi is our future in goal

If this years 1st is a Dman, then he'd likely also be in that untouchable category due to our lack of D prospects.

A protected 1st in 24' and all the other picks or prospects would be available. 

[French Collection]

45 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Kulich and Savoie are the next wave; we need them as replacements and skilled fillers.

Levi is our future in goal

If this years 1st is a Dman, then he'd likely also be in that untouchable category due to our lack of D prospects.

A protected 1st in 24' and all the other picks or prospects would be available. 

I would move Kulich if the return is Saros.

Trade assets: All draft picks, UPL, Comrie, Bryson, Olofsson (get him 30) and all prospects except Savoie and Kulich.

Bye bye: Comrie, Bryson, Clague, Hinostroza, Okposo. Greenway has a 20 game tryout next year.

I like KO but he is done. His leadership has helped but he has only played 24 playoff games in 16 years. Give the C to one of the young guns and bring in a vet with a winning pedigree + sandpaper. I’ve mentioned McDonagh before as an example.

 

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Do we need a different defensive coach next year or merely the increase in emphasis on that portion of the game?  Teams are exploiting the D's tendency to overplay the puck below the goal line (often getting both D below the goalline along with the puck carrier) so that when the puck bounces back out (either to the point or the slot) there is an opening in the low slot for the opponent and the low F is slow in reacting to that and the D are too deep to recover.

They also leave the backside open, but that is better than leaving the slot open.  Had seen games where they were better at covering those but recently they've been as bad as that as they have been all year.  Hoping that additional top 4 D man coming in and Power being a year more experienced helps them get back to taking that sort of play away.  That alone might drop the GA by at least 20 and possibly 30.

The evidence I have is that the emphasis from the entire staff is offence so that the players learn what they can do on the NHL level.  I think they flat out don't practice defence much for the forwards.  I presume it is not an incompetent coach but the emphasis of the staff on offence.

As I have noted before, many teams rise from the depths by learning offence in season 1 with the kids followed by learning defence in season 2.  This season, I would have preferred, say, 1 practice per week to have been specifically for a defencive structure.

Getting the personnel to play gritty defence game-in and game-out will help too.

[GASabresIUFAN]

The Sabres are at 72 points with 13 games left.  They finished with 75 points last year (32-39-11).  

DB's best team finished 2015/16 with 81 points (35-36-11).  

We have 33 wins YTD, but are going to need 5 more in the next 13 to top that 2015/2016 team.

[French Collection]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The Sabres are at 72 points with 13 games left.  They finished with 75 points last year (32-39-11).  

DB's best team finished 2015/16 with 81 points (35-36-11).  

We have 33 wins YTD, but are going to need 5 more in the next 13 to top that 2015/2016 team.

Low bar but I’ll take it.

They could still get close to 90 points with a short winning streak.

[Mango]

15 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Playoffs 

Playoffs

Playoffs

Thats it.

If they dont fire both adams and meatballs ***** the draft picks 

I don’t think playoffs are enough. The way they are finishing the season is leaving such a bad taste in my mouth, I think they’ve lost the wiggle room to just make it. They have to be in the thick of it. Somewhere around where the rangers are this year. 
 

We have to be tougher. The defense has to progress both individually and via structure. We have to give up less. I can’t believe I’m writing this, but the fact that effort has been such an issue is concerning. 

[pi2000]

Reason's to be optimistic.....

• Lowest spending cap team in the league was in the wildcard mix late into March
• If they simply had average goaltending on home ice, they'd be securely in a wildcard spot:
• Levi
• One of the top scoring teams in the league with a deep pipeline of young offensive talent
• Youngest team in the league; most of these players have never played this much hockey over the course of a full season; this late season slump is not unexpected.

[mjd1001]

17 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Stay at home second pair dman.

                      +

Actual starting quality goalie.

                      =
                  Playoffs 

I think that pretty much is it.

Some more detail"

-Hope for a heathy (healthier) back end (Dahlin must be playing hurt, he is a different player the last few weeks.) Healthy Samuelsson, add one, maybe 2 quality mid pair guys back there.

-Continued offensive end growth by Peterka and Quinn.

-Better D-zone and neutral-zone-without-the-puck play by the young forwards. Peterka, Krebs, Cozens, VO (if he is playing)...all must have a full season of much better play without the puck.

I think the shortcomings of this team are obvious and not too difficult to address.  I'm not overly worried.  This team could have been better right now had more been done this past offseason, but I don't think that was 'part of the plan'.  The plan was to put this young team together on the ice and see what they can (and can't) do.  I also think the plan always was THIS offseason coming up was when you start addressing needs in a bigger way. Hopefull that is what we'll see.

Edited March 20, 2023 by mjd1001

[Sabres73]

I think this season's goal has always been to have this young group play "meaningful" games in March. So mission accomplished, now they have been exposed to what it takes. This is a good thing, despite us all being disappointed we're not a playoff team.

Next year's goal will be making the playoffs, while further developing our young core and adding a couple more pieces.

I honestly don't get the anger towards the franchise, we're on pace and following the plan. Many of you would have us fire/trade everyone and putting us back to square one again.

 

[SabresVet]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The Sabres are at 72 points with 13 games left.  They finished with 75 points last year (32-39-11).  

DB's best team finished 2015/16 with 81 points (35-36-11).  

We have 33 wins YTD, but are going to need 5 more in the next 13 to top that 2015/2016 team.

Buffalo is 12-19-4 against top-16 NHL teams (as of 19 March), have a -39 goal differential, score 0.6 less goals per game, and allow more than 4 on average in those games.  They were 5-11-3 at home against the top end teams.     

Need to be much more competitive there to demonstrate being playoff worthy.    

 

[TageMVP]

6 hours ago, Taro T said:

They have one.  Do you mean a better checking line or a scoring line that can also consistently check.  They don't  have the latter.

Yes

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, SabresVet said:

Buffalo is 12-19-4 against top-16 NHL teams (as of 19 March), have a -39 goal differential, score 0.6 less goals per game, and allow more than 4 on average in those games.  They were 5-11-3 at home against the top end teams.     

Need to be much more competitive there to demonstrate being playoff worthy.    

 

Subtract out the 2 Boston and 1 Dallas game and the numbers are far less ugly. -19 goals are from those 3 games.

12-16-4 vs the top 16 with a -20 isn’t exactly awful for a young team. It means they were mostly within 1.5 goals in every game

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, Taro T said:

Which is what Adams needs to be doing.  Any thoughts on what do the players and coaches need to do to get into the dance and, more importantly, do some damage once they're there?

Well yes, but Adams has to do those things first. I think it's hard to build properly and fit people into real roles if there are line up holes. For an overt example, you can't ask a team to play a solid checking game if they have zero faith in their goaltending to hold a one goal lead or they have to come back from early deficits. Everything has to be built in layers, and imo we are doing it backwards. I've said ages ago, you prioritize and fix goalie FIRST. Then the D then the scoring. 

Anyway, assuming he fixes (most of) the holes, Granato has to stop being the kind teacher to some extent and has to demand effort and excellence. You don't give full effort and do your job you sit. He needs to teach them a proper defensive system and put that first and make them play it. Play your position, do your job. This is all on the coaching, and if the players don't buy in they are the wrong players. 

Once he clearly defines each player's role, they have to do their job as I said. Again though I'm not sure it's possible without filling the holes first. For example, I want Cozens and Dahlin and Krebs and so forth (everyone actually) to play big and be aggressive, push back, but I'm not sure they can and will continue to do that without more grit in the line up so that they know they will not be alone and guys will step in. Everything kind of feeds back on itself and one thing leads to another. This is why Philly signed a meathead like DesLauriers. It's not that he's a good player, but just being there, players knowing he's there for them, that makes other guys in their lineup unafraid and thus they can push a team like we have around with impunity. Same thing happened in Minnesota with Reaves. Reaves talent makes him marginal at this point, maybe even a liability, but since they got him that team has been winning and guys up and down their line up are playing more physical. The team got better. We desperately need physicality for the 4th line. 

I know the soft skill no fights contingent will scream old school out dated hooligan blah blah blah but look at what all the playoff teams in the division did. Every single one of them, even Boston, added more, not less toughness for the playoffs. It is still part of what hockey is, like it or not. 

Yes, ideally I want Brad May not Rob Ray, but until I find Brad May if Rob Ray is all I can get I'm still adding him. It'll still help, and think about how nasty and fearless Krebs will get if he's got that guy on his wing to help fight his battles against the bigger guys when they emerge. It'll be contagious. 

(and switch to the goat heads 🙂 )

[PerreaultForever]

19 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

So they give up Savoie for Chrychrun plus this years first-   They still are unlikely to make the playoffs with current goaltending 

if they did make the playoffs and quickly got disposed by the Bruins im betting the same posters are spewing the same rhetoric as they are today.  it’s tiresome 

Of course,  in 2 years when Chychrun leaves and Savoie and the first rounder and making contributions for another team.  The same guys will be “I can’t believe they traded 2 first round players for a guy  who bolted  after 2 years” 

What's actually tiresome is missing the playoffs for the longest streak in league history and being the joke of the league. 

Of course the same rhetoric keeps getting posted, because it's the same problems every season. 

As for Chychrun leaving, well anybody might leave, but if you start winning you reverse that desire. Chychrun would have made the team instantly better. Savoie? who tf knows. 

[CallawaySabres]

My goal for this team would be to not suck so badly and that you never make me have to call WGR EVER again because we hate the team so much for destroying our fandom.

[Marvin]

40 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well yes, but Adams has to do those things first. I think it's hard to build properly and fit people into real roles if there are line up holes. For an overt example, you can't ask a team to play a solid checking game if they have zero faith in their goaltending to hold a one goal lead or they have to come back from early deficits. Everything has to be built in layers, and imo we are doing it backwards. I've said ages ago, you prioritize and fix goalie FIRST. Then the D then the scoring. 

Anyway, assuming he fixes (most of) the holes, Granato has to stop being the kind teacher to some extent and has to demand effort and excellence. You don't give full effort and do your job you sit. He needs to teach them a proper defensive system and put that first and make them play it. Play your position, do your job. This is all on the coaching, and if the players don't buy in they are the wrong players. 

Once he clearly defines each player's role, they have to do their job as I said. Again though I'm not sure it's possible without filling the holes first. For example, I want Cozens and Dahlin and Krebs and so forth (everyone actually) to play big and be aggressive, push back, but I'm not sure they can and will continue to do that without more grit in the line up so that they know they will not be alone and guys will step in. Everything kind of feeds back on itself and one thing leads to another. This is why Philly signed a meathead like DesLauriers. It's not that he's a good player, but just being there, players knowing he's there for them, that makes other guys in their lineup unafraid and thus they can push a team like we have around with impunity. Same thing happened in Minnesota with Reaves. Reaves talent makes him marginal at this point, maybe even a liability, but since they got him that team has been winning and guys up and down their line up are playing more physical. The team got better. We desperately need physicality for the 4th line. 

I know the soft skill no fights contingent will scream old school out dated hooligan blah blah blah but look at what all the playoff teams in the division did. Every single one of them, even Boston, added more, not less toughness for the playoffs. It is still part of what hockey is, like it or not. 

Yes, ideally I want Brad May not Rob Ray, but until I find Brad May if Rob Ray is all I can get I'm still adding him. It'll still help, and think about how nasty and fearless Krebs will get if he's got that guy on his wing to help fight his battles against the bigger guys when they emerge. It'll be contagious. 

(and switch to the goat heads 🙂 )

No to the demonic goat.  Yes to everything else here.  Even if you don't like that kind of player, I can't imagine anyone being unhappy with a couple of guys Mike Grier being added to the team or the Sabres icing a line akin to Mair-Gaustad-Kaleta.

[Crusader1969]

37 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

What's actually tiresome is missing the playoffs for the longest streak in league history and being the joke of the league. 

Of course the same rhetoric keeps getting posted, because it's the same problems every season. 

As for Chychrun leaving, well anybody might leave, but if you start winning you reverse that desire. Chychrun would have made the team instantly better. Savoie? who tf knows. 

Glad you aren’t managing the team. You blow your whole load just trying to make the playoffs once

The reality is that though no matter who they brought in they weren’t beating Boston 

That’s even if made the playoffs   

 

28 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

My goal for this team would be to not suck so badly and that you never make me have to call WGR EVER again because we hate the team so much for destroying our fandom.

I hope you realize you don’t speak for every Sabres fan 

[thewookie1]

God, I wish it were possible to get ROR back this offseason..... he'd literally solve our vet, lack of playoff experience, defensive forward and faceoff guy in one fell swoop. 

[Crusader1969]

10 hours ago, Pimlach said:

ONE GOAL -  That goal should be playoffs.  Nothing else.   How they get there is debatable.  
 

Fixing the way they play at home is a must and probably key to reaching that one goal. 
 

If no playoffs next year, then I take a serious look at the coaching staff and put them on the clock.   

Omg. I’m agreeing with every one of your posts.  Not sure that’s a good thing or not lol