What Should the Goals be Next Season?

[Taro T]

11 hours ago, OverPowerYou said:

The goals next season? Well if they play 82 games they should score at least 3 goals a game. So I’d say 246

They're already at 248 (probably actually 247 as that likely includes a goal for their 1 shootout victory).  They'll likely end the year close to 280 goals.  Do they need that as a target again next year?  Really doubt only 248 would get it done.

Does Thompson need to be a 50 goal scorer next year to get them where they need to be there?  How many 30 goal scorers do they need?

How much do they need to reduce the goals against?  Getting a #1 G and a 4D will help there alot.  Assuming the starter plays 50 games.  If he gives up 2.8 per game (140 on the year) is that low enough to get them where they need to be?

[Sidc3000]

4 minutes ago, French Collection said:

I know many have sad that even a good goalie would have poor numbers behind this team but a few huge saves per game can lift the entire team up.

I like your comment on defensive growth. Power will take the biggest step, he can improve by quite a bit by getting stronger and training for 82 game stamina. Mule has room to grow too. Dahlin is not a finished product either.

They still need a top 4 Dman. One who excels at the PK would be great.

Don’t even use Boston as an example. Use a team that (for now) is below them in the standings. The Flyers. They barely let the Sabres into the offensive zone all night 

[Thorny]

8 minutes ago, French Collection said:

I know many have sad that even a good goalie would have poor numbers behind this team but a few huge saves per game can lift the entire team up.

I like your comment on defensive growth. Power will take the biggest step, he can improve by quite a bit by getting stronger and training for 82 game stamina. Mule has room to grow too. Dahlin is not a finished product either.

They still need a top 4 Dman. One who excels at the PK would be great.

Biggest straw man going in Sabresland right now, here, Twitter, or otherwise “Even prime hasek”

the absolute gall to suggest the best goalie of all time wouldn’t improve (substantially) on guys putting up “nearly average” numbers. It’s honestly hilarious, the amount I’ve seen people tweet: “look, our goalies are almost average, what about the rest?” WHY is goalies the only thing we’d be ok with being “almost average.” My word in heaven. 

It’s like, “could hasek replicate his numbers EXACTLY with a poor D? No? HAH! I guess we don’t need improvement in goal at all!” It just makes zero sense. An utterly terrible straw man. 

it’s like “good being the enemy of great” as Creed. Worse than even the band. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Thorny

[Taro T]

11 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Same things they needed going into this season. 

- a solid starting goalie

- a solid D partner for Power

- a 2 way checking 3C

- grit and toughness in the bottom 6

- defensive depth

We added a tiny bit of D depth with Stillman, but really just swapped him in to fill the spot Fitzgerald had. 

Which is what Adams needs to be doing.  Any thoughts on what do the players and coaches need to do to get into the dance and, more importantly, do some damage once they're there?

[Randall Flagg]

I just want to hear them say, without reservation, that the team needs to make the playoffs and win as many games as possible. Every year they've been able to couch their language allowing for success in the event that the playoffs were missed. I don't want to hear a word about development outside of the context that the development will put us over the hump. And I want their actions to back this up unambiguously. I don't want to hear another word about blocking prospects, I don't want to see mediocre signings for short term that obviously are meant to keep a spot warm for someone. 

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

A commitment to a defensive system. Change the assistant coaching staff. Like to see Peca promoted.

Top to bottom Boston aren’t more talented then Buffalo but they play a committed system that allows them to consistently win.

Nah, we need a system that priorities our strengths and players good enough to offset the weaknesses relative to the weaknesses of other teams 

The Boston comment is wild. They are, assuredly, significantly more talented, “apt” (whatever word you wanna use) than Buffalo. It’s not even close. All around ability is also ability. Goaltending is also part of the roster.

You basically said outright that there’s no difference in talent, and that the difference between a 21st place team and the greatest regular season of all time is system. That’s wild. 

[Taro T]

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The Goal is to make the playoffs!  That's the only relevant goal at this point.

How do we get there?

1) Get better goaltending.  

2) Get better defensemen.

3) Learn to play tougher.  A legit 4th line center who can win draws and kill penalties is now crucial.

4)KA now needs to focus less on development and more on winning.

That means that outside of Dahlin, Power, Mule, Tuch, Cozens, Quinn, and TNT, every asset in the organization is available for the right price.  Levi, Savoie, and Kulich will also be very difficult but not impossible to acquire.  However, everyone else and every draft pick is available for the right price. Östlund, Rosen, Johnson, UPL, Mitts, VO, JJP, Greenway, Jokiharju, Krebs, Jost, our 1st in 2023 and 24, and both 2nds this year are available, but we have to get the right pieces back.

This is going to be KA's biggest challenge.  He has no experience building a winning team.  This is his first attempt.   

I said before the season that we need to not only score more goals but learn how to limit them as well.  The Sabres are allowing a whopping 3.63 GA per game.  Our team save % is .891.  Our PK is now down to 71.88%.  Incredibly these are all worse than last year.  

To make matter worse, this team has regressed just when they needed to gel and play their best hockey of the season.  DG needs to look in the mirror and so do the players. 

Agree that these are the sort of things that Adams needs to be doing.  But what are the goals that the rest of the crew needs to make doing well in the playoffs a reality?

Would agree that a little introspection (and at the maangement level, a lot) will be beneficial across the board.

But what are some more tangible subgoals which will be necessary to make the big goal a reality?

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

Agree that these are the sort of things that Adams needs to be doing.  But what are the goals that the rest of the crew needs to make doing well in the playoffs a reality?

Would agree that a little introspection (and at the maangement level, a lot) will be beneficial across the board.

But what are some more tangible subgoals which will be necessary to make the big goal a reality?

A tangible goal is Dahlin not going 8 games without points. We generally win when he contributes points and doesn’t when he does not. Not running him into the ground minutes wise should greatly aid, and that means defensive additions and assuredly not rookies. 

[TageMVP]

Get a checking line 

[TageMVP]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

A tangible goal is Dahlin not going 8 games without points. We generally win when he contributes points and doesn’t when he does not. Not running him into the ground minutes wise should greatly aid, and that means defensive additions and assuredly not rookies. 

Dahlin can play those minutes if he doesn't get cross checked in the back repeatedly which causes a lingering issue the rest of the way. Teams know they can still do that with little to no repercussions. 

He was great before that cross check 

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, TageMVP said:

Dahlin can play those minutes if he doesn't get cross checked in the back repeatedly which causes a lingering issue the rest of the way. Teams know they can still do that with little to no repercussions. 

He was great before that cross check 

There is no chance we could ever build up enough deterrent to prevent that type of play multiple times throughout an 82 game grind. It’s not THAT shot that functionality ended his norris push. No more than it truly being a straw that breaks the camels back 

the meaning of that saying isn’t about the strength of a twig it’s about the cumulative effect of all those twigs to Dahlin’s back over 82 that all “go to guys” face and until we have MORE go to guys Dahlin will face a disproportionate amount 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Thorny

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Marvin said:

Goal?  Make the playoffs.  That is my expectation for the next decade with the talent on the team -- and he should be able to keep the pipeline continually stocked.  Therefore, Adams needs a plan which preserves most of our futures but makes a couple of big moves.

Far and away the top need is goaltending.  This team is probably in the playoffs with just mediocre goaltending.  Because of Adams's experience in Carolina, I am dubious that he will get a goaltender of the caliber I want; it is far more likely that he hunts in the 2nd and 3rd tiers for goalkeepers.  IMHO, he must get a sure thing.

Because Adams went after Chychrun, he knows that he needs a legitimate top 4 D.  He needs someone who does all the boring stuff well.  I would prefer a heavier set of defencemen in the 5-8 slots overall.  I would also prefer that Bryson, Clague, et al. start in 9th position.

A competent defencive centre who is competent at face-offs is also a must.  Face-offs don't necessarily matter when you are not statistically significantly different from 50%.  But when a team is as bad as the Sabres are, it puts them back on their heels far too often.

Next season, there had better be an emphasis on team defence, from structure through positioning to awareness.  I am sick of opponemts routinely cruising down the slot or on the weak side being totally uncovered.  If this comes at the price of some offence, then so be it.  I would start by teaching the youngsters not to overpursue in the defencive zone.  Heck, start now.

A very reachable goal is to rebalance the team with more rugged player.  This team needs to learn how to play playoff-type hockey.

The PK has to stop being embarrassing.  I know that they have been experimenting with players to figure out who should be doing it after Girgensons and Okposo leave, but the coaches had all season to correct the glaring mistakes.

Do we need a different defensive coach next year or merely the increase in emphasis on that portion of the game?  Teams are exploiting the D's tendency to overplay the puck below the goal line (often getting both D below the goalline along with the puck carrier) so that when the puck bounces back out (either to the point or the slot) there is an opening in the low slot for the opponent and the low F is slow in reacting to that and the D are too deep to recover.

They also leave the backside open, but that is better than leaving the slot open.  Had seen games where they were better at covering those but recently they've been as bad as that as they have been all year.  Hoping that additional top 4 D man coming in and Power being a year more experienced helps them get back to taking that sort of play away.  That alone might drop the GA by at least 20 and possibly 30.

[Xzy89c]

1 hour ago, Quint said:

The roster is full of finesse players who can skate, shoot and pass, with many more coming up in the pipeline. But even the biggest and most talented guys are getting pushed around. They are essentially weak. Need to balance the roster out with gritty checkers and guys who can set an example on how to play defensive hockey. Need a policeman or two. Greenway is not it. I'd like to see three new physical defensemen, one #1 goalie with Levi as backup (goodbye UPL and Comrie), and emphasis on the boring things in hockey...defensive structure, responsibility, checking, blocking shots, faceoffs and the penalty kill. So far, these boys have been fed a steady diet of ice cream and cake (shooting and making plays) but they need a basis of meat and potatoes (defensive hockey). Trade some prospects and guys who have grown stale here. Balance the lineup.

by saying Levi should be backup next year is the dumbest thing you will read on this thread. MAybe on the board. Anything else you say is now required to be ignored.

[Thorny]

@Xzy89cwhat don’t you like about my post and the others?

Edited March 20, 2023 by Thorny

[PASabreFan]

3 hours ago, tom webster said:

I don’t put stock in many of the axioms associated with development but I do believe there is a learning curve. I also believe that greater depth allows your stars to not be as relevant every game. I don’t get excited when a team goes on a crazy run when they are eliminated, I don’t get excited when they collapse after realizing the season is coming to an end.

But when did the collapse start? They were on the cusp if not in a spot points percentage wise.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

ONE GOAL -  That goal should be playoffs.  Nothing else.   How they get there is debatable.  
 

Fixing the way they play at home is a must and probably key to reaching that one goal. 
 

If no playoffs next year, then I take a serious look at the coaching staff and put them on the clock.   

Yes, the goal is the playoffs.  But without a plan and goals that work towards that it isn't saying much.

Agree that fixing the home record is going to be paramount to getting into the playoffs.  They likely won't improve the road record much if at all and even if the team is better next year they might not have as good of a road record.

[Carmel Corn]

12 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Do we need a different defensive coach next year or merely the increase in emphasis on that portion of the game?  Teams are exploiting the D's tendency to overplay the puck below the goal line (often getting both D below the goalline along with the puck carrier) so that when the puck bounces back out (either to the point or the slot) there is an opening in the low slot for the opponent and the low F is slow in reacting to that and the D are too deep to recover.

They also leave the backside open, but that is better than leaving the slot open.  Had seen games where they were better at covering those but recently they've been as bad as that as they have been all year.  Hoping that additional top 4 D man coming in and Power being a year more experienced helps them get back to taking that sort of play away.  That alone might drop the GA by at least 20 and possibly 30.

Possibly, but if the same asst. coach is also responsible for the PK, then I would favor a change there.  Defense zone lapses 5-on-5 plus a passive/ineffective PK are wearing on me and I think the easiest way to fix that is an asst. coach change.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Directive to Don: coach to win. Always. Before during and after games. Show you belong or there isn't another kick at the can.

The coach's turkey thermometer is also up. He's been basted.

Feast!

 

Would agree that this is what Granato needs to do this coming season.

[Taro T]

31 minutes ago, Thorny said:

A tangible goal is Dahlin not going 8 games without points. We generally win when he contributes points and doesn’t when he does not. Not running him into the ground minutes wise should greatly aid, and that means defensive additions and assuredly not rookies. 

Now this is the sort of stuff was hoping to see when starting this thread.

How many games do we need to see his longest pointless streak be while still being able to get to the dance?  Would say 3.  More, less?

[GASabresIUFAN]

11 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

To make matter worse, this team has regressed just when they needed to gel and play their best hockey of the season.  DG needs to look in the mirror and so do the players. 

 

10 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Would agree that a little introspection (and at the maangement level, a lot) will be beneficial across the board.

So yes, I believe that a little introspection is necessary.  I’ve called on DG for months to alter the system to protect the goalies and try to limit the odd man rushes.  

I actually think KA has a basic idea of what to do.  Getting Greenway and Stillman at the deadline was about getting tougher.  Getting Lyubushkin was as well. Trying to get Chychrun was about upgrading the top 4.  All of these are good signs for the off-season.  Whether or not he can execute the vision is another question.  

From an off-season standpoint, the weight room is key for our young group. We have 8 players, many of them core players, under 24.  Power, Joki, Dahlin, Mule, Cozens, Quinn, JJP and Krebs all play an important roles for this team. but because of being physically immature, they tend to get knocked around, including Mule.  Just wait until he fills out.  They need to hit the weight room and get stronger.  

For the remaining games, DG needs to get them refocused.  He needs to tell them not to worry about the playoffs, but just go out play hard each period and try to win each period. They aren’t making the playoffs, but they need to learn to fight through adversity and play hard.  

[Taro T]

31 minutes ago, TageMVP said:

Get a checking line 

They have one.  Do you mean a better checking line or a scoring line that can also consistently check.  They don't  have the latter.

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

So yes, I believe that a little introspection is necessary.  I’ve called on DG for months to alter the system to protect the goalies and try to limit the odd man rushes.  

I actually think KA has a basic idea of what to do.  Getting Greenway and Stillman at the deadline was about getting tougher.  Getting Lyubushkin was as well. Trying to get Chychrun was about upgrading the top 4.  All of these are good signs for the off-season.  Whether or not he can execute the vision is another question.  

From an off-season standpoint, the weight room is key for our young group. We have 8 players, many of them core players, under 24.  Power, Joki, Dahlin, Mule, Cozens, Quinn, JJP and Krebs all play an important roles for this team. but because of being physically immature, they tend to get knocked around, including Mule.  Just wait until he fills out.  They need to hit the weight room and get stronger.  

For the remaining games, DG needs to get them refocused.  He needs to tell them not to worry about the playoffs, but just go out play hard each period and try to win each period. They aren’t making the playoffs, but they need to learn to fight through adversity and play hard.  

I don't want this. They need to be better in coverage (which we have seen in spurts) but I don't think they need to alter the system because the goalies are so atrocious any decent chance goes in. 

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

From an off-season standpoint, the weight room is key for our young group. We have 8 players, many of them core players, under 24.  Power, Joki, Dahlin, Mule, Cozens, Quinn, JJP and Krebs all play an important roles for this team. but because of being physically immature, they tend to get knocked around, including Mule.  Just wait until he fills out.  They need to hit the weight room and get stronger.  

One of these things is not like the others, one of these things doesn't belong. 

[Zamboni]

Change goalies to protect the system?

Change the system to protect the goalies?

 

i’d rather do the first choice … 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Zamboni

[French Collection]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't want this. They need to be better in coverage (which we have seen in spurts) but I don't think they need to alter the system because the goalies are so atrocious any decent chance goes in. 

Defensive awareness.

@Taro Tmentioned in another thread about both D going below the goal line and the forwards being slow to support.

They have speed and skill to burn, just improve their defensive responsibilities.

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Change goalies is to protect the system?

Change the system to protect the goalies?

 

i’d rather do the first choice … 

Exactly