Golden Knights at Sabres 11-10-22 7PM

[That Aud Smell]

57 minutes ago, Weave said:

Part of player growth is getting them to adapt to what the other teams change on the ice.  I am not getting the impression that DG is changing things system-wise to adapt to the opponent or personnel we have on the ice.  I think that is a big mistake.  We have enough players with 3+yrs as a pro that we should be able to expect them to handle adjustments based on personnel and opponents.  I feel like DGs coaching balance is too far to the side leaning “make mistakes”, and not enough towards “its time to learn how to do what it takes to win”.

This is a great post. A sobering post. C'mon, Sabres.

Edited November 11, 2022 by That Aud Smell

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Thanksgiving.  We’ll know what we really have around the last week in November.  That will likely be enough sample size post-every team is feeling things out.

There are some disappointing elements of our play that seem to be recurring frequently enough to resemble a pattern.  Odd man rushes being the worst of them. Not responding to our key players getting hammered is another.

Im not going to pull the eject lever until we see what happens when Mule returns and sends a AAAA D man back to Rochester.  But the excessive odd man rushes were happening when Mule was in the lineup as well.  Right now I am perceiving the issue as a fault in DGs system rather than a player growth issue.  
 

Im becoming disappointed in Granato. Part of player growth is getting them to adapt to what the other teams change on the ice.  I am not getting the impression that DG is changing things system-wise to adapt to the opponent or personnel we have on the ice.  I think that is a big mistake.  We have enough players with 3+yrs as a pro that we should be able to expect them to handle adjustments based on personnel and opponents.  I feel like DGs coaching balance is too far to the side leaning “make mistakes”, and not enough towards “its time to learn how to do what it takes to win”.

I agree with 99% of this and the Granato comment seems spot on to me. At what point does Granato flip the switch from 99% development to more of a balanced approach of develop and win? Is he trying to force the players to learn to win by letting them figure it out with minimal guidance? The defensive zone coverage is a mess and outside of the breakout, the coaching of the defensive is alllllll higgledy-piggledy.

[eman]

11 hours ago, CallawaySabres said:

This is my biggest concern, I have already sold games 2 weeks out because of the 4th loss in a row. The players are going to get accustomed to an empty building and losing. When will the cycle be broken? Dahlin will probably laugh at extending his current contract and won't put up with this non-stop failure. What is to stop him from pulling an Eichel?

Especially if he still comminicates with Ullmark. Linus will tell him how the grass is much greener elsewhere.

[eman]

2 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Some of you sound like a Jealous X its good the guy is back to normal and not dealing with any  side effects.

 

 

 

Plus he is healthy to start an entire season and he has very good supporting teammates in Vegas. This season we will see the Jack Eichel that Buffalo should have had.

 

[LGR4GM]

31 minutes ago, eman said:

Especially if he still communicates with Ullmark. Linus will tell him how the grass is much greener elsewhere.

I wouldn't worry about it. This team is going to be streaky this year because they lack depth and they lack experience. Dahlin is a leader and a good leader knows that success is supposed to be easy in the NHL. 

First step is to stop the slide and the way to do that is to be better in their own zone which is the biggest failure right now. They can play offensively with any team in the league but the d zone is a nightmare, Adams needs to trade for a defender, sooner rather than later and honestly Joker and Samuelsson coming back doesn't change that. 

[Pimlach]

11 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Krebs is not an NHL level player yet. I think he would benefit from at least another couple months playing in Rochester.

I haven't seen him play at all this year, but maybe Sheahan can take his spot for a while.

Why single out Krebs?  What is Quinn doing that is any better?  Nothing.  He looks worse to me. 
 

Peterka is playing only a little bit better than these two,  After a good start he is fading away. 
 

So the question is at what level is best to develop them?  Not just Krebs, all three are in the same boat. 

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Why single out Krebs?  What is Quinn doing that is any better?  Nothing.  He looks worse to me. 
 

Peterka is playing only a little bit better than these two,  After a good start he is fading away. 
 

So the question is at what level is best to develop them?  Not just Krebs, all three are in the same boat. 

You would be wrong. Sorry but that is the truth. Jack Quinn is one of the Sabres top 5 forwards at suppression and generating chances. Quinn has greatly improved his play in the last little bit, by mid December, I think your post will feel silly. 

 

[mjd1001]

So many goals allowed last night, I rewatched them but just don't feel like putting a huge breakdown of every single goal and going frame-by-frame through the replays, so just some general observations on what cost the Sabres on the goals specifically:

-Comrie. He had a bad game, gave up a lot of rebounds, BIG rebounds, and you would want him to make more big stops than he did.  Bad game.

-Power, i don't want to say he is 'lost' in his own end because he isn't, but his positioning isn't great all the time. On Eichels goal Lyubushkin goes into the corner and Power goes to the other side to cover..not the bad play. But when Lyubushkin comes back toward the net, Power is very slow to get back to his side, leaving Eichel open for the goal.  Not an Awful play, but as he gets better hopefully his reaction time on positioning will get better on plays like this.

Overall, you just want Comrie to be better. Even though the Sabres gave up a lot of chances, if they had good goaltending they should win this game with 4 goals scored.

[K-9]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You would be wrong. Sorry but that is the truth. Jack Quinn is one of the Sabres top 5 forwards at suppression and generating chances. Quinn has greatly improved his play in the last little bit, by mid December, I think your post will feel silly. 

 

I appreciate the Quinn analytics as they dovetail with what I see on the ice. Any idea how Krebs’s analytics are looking lately? IIRC, his underlying numbers were also favorable when someone posted them here not too long ago. Is that still the case with Krebs?

[Pimlach]

14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You would be wrong. Sorry but that is the truth. Jack Quinn is one of the Sabres top 5 forwards at suppression and generating chances. Quinn has greatly improved his play in the last little bit, by mid December, I think your post will feel silly. 

 

I just don't see it in the games or on the scoresheet.   I did miss the 3 straight wins while i was on a cruise. 

A lot of these advanced stats are new to me, but stats usually don't lie.   I won't feel silly, I will be happy.  I want to see him become an NHL forward.   

[LGR4GM]

19 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I appreciate the Quinn analytics as they dovetail with what I see on the ice. Any idea how Krebs’s analytics are looking lately? IIRC, his underlying numbers were also favorable when someone posted them here not too long ago. Is that still the case with Krebs?

I don't have Krebs in front of me but I think it was better than last year. 

11 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I just don't see it in the games or on the scoresheet.   I did miss the 3 straight wins while i was on a cruise. 

A lot of these advanced stats are new to me, but stats usually don't lie.   I won't feel silly, I will be happy.  I want to see him become an NHL forward.   

the short version is he is creating chances and suppressing chances at some of the best rates. I think the issue with his counting stats like goals and assists, is just some luck and some getting more to the middle of the ice (his shot will come soon). Quinn is going to breakout after Christmas if he keeps this up. 

[JoeSchmoe]

31 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't have Krebs in front of me but I think it was better than last year. 

I just checked. The stats aren't as bad as what the eye test would have you think. His on ice expected goals for is 53.5% on Moneypuck.

Something on the site doesn't add up though. Almost all the forwards besides the 4th liners are above 50%, and almost all the D except Dahlin and Clague(?!?!) are below 50%. Mathematically, you'd think it should be proportional both ways since there's always a proportional number of D and F's on the ice at all times. The only thing I can think is Moneypuck expected goal % isn't 5 on 5 only. If it's not, it seems like a bit of a meaningless stat since it would be so highly skewed based on time spent on PP and PK.

[That Aud Smell]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

The defensive zone coverage is a mess and outside of the breakout, the coaching of the defensive is alllllll higgledy-piggledy.

Being in-person - and sitting in-line with the goal line of the opponent-shoots-twice zone - gave me a better appreciation for this. The number of times that the Sabres were scrambly in their own end with GK players just occupying open space was unnerving.

Also, shoutout higgledy-piggledy.

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

-Comrie. He had a bad game, gave up a lot of rebounds, BIG rebounds, and you would want him to make more big stops than he did.  Bad game.

It's hard to say that when he stoned Eichel twice on breakaways. And yet it's true.

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't have Krebs in front of me but I think it was better than last year. 

the short version is he is creating chances and suppressing chances at some of the best rates. I think the issue with his counting stats like goals and assists, is just some luck and some getting more to the middle of the ice (his shot will come soon). Quinn is going to breakout after Christmas if he keeps this up. 

The First Chart is the 2021-22 Season for Krebs, the Second is this Season. 
 

There has been improvement 

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

I just don't see it in the games or on the scoresheet.   I did miss the 3 straight wins while i was on a cruise. 

A lot of these advanced stats are new to me, but stats usually don't lie.   I won't feel silly, I will be happy.  I want to see him become an NHL forward.   

The most important thing to remember about Jack Quinn’s Career thus far is it takes Him Time to adjust to the next level of play. 
He went from 32 points in His First Year in the OHL to 89 in His Second. 
He played 15 games in His First Year in Rochester and had 9 points, last season He played 45 games and had 61 points. 

He has 5 points in 11 games with the Sabres thus far.  When His Offense catches up with His Defense, it’s gonna be fun 

[triumph_communes]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I agree with 99% of this and the Granato comment seems spot on to me. At what point does Granato flip the switch from 99% development to more of a balanced approach of develop and win? Is he trying to force the players to learn to win by letting them figure it out with minimal guidance? The defensive zone coverage is a mess and outside of the breakout, the coaching of the defensive is alllllll higgledy-piggledy.

I was saying this a month ago. Glad others are seeing it now

[Taro T]

13 hours ago, SwampD said:

They were terrible against the Habs, and for 5/6ths of the Chicago game too.

Disagree.

They had stretches where they flat out dominated the Habs.  The difference in the game being a rebound going right off Power's ankle into the net.  They did not get to the front of the net like they needed to as Montembeault was a rebound factory.  But it is hyperbolic to say they were terrible.

They weren't terrible against the Hawks either.  They simply weren't scoring.

They were terrible against Seattle & against the Yotes.

[SwampD]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

Disagree.

They had stretches where they flat out dominated the Habs.  The difference in the game being a rebound going right off Power's ankle into the net.  They did not get to the front of the net like they needed to as Montembeault was a rebound factory.  But it is hyperbolic to say they were terrible.

They weren't terrible against the Hawks either.  They simply weren't scoring.

They were terrible against Seattle & against the Yotes.

I didn’t see that when everyone here was saying those things, and I didn’t see it when the intermission guys were saying that. And I still don’t see the domination that everyone is talking about. I mean, unless their game-plan is to just get as many perimeter shots as possible and hope for a flukey goal?

Same with the Chi game.

 

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

So many goals allowed last night, I rewatched them but just don't feel like putting a huge breakdown of every single goal and going frame-by-frame through the replays, so just some general observations on what cost the Sabres on the goals specifically:

-Comrie. He had a bad game, gave up a lot of rebounds, BIG rebounds, and you would want him to make more big stops than he did.  Bad game.

-Power, i don't want to say he is 'lost' in his own end because he isn't, but his positioning isn't great all the time. On Eichels goal Lyubushkin goes into the corner and Power goes to the other side to cover..not the bad play. But when Lyubushkin comes back toward the net, Power is very slow to get back to his side, leaving Eichel open for the goal.  Not an Awful play, but as he gets better hopefully his reaction time on positioning will get better on plays like this.

Overall, you just want Comrie to be better. Even though the Sabres gave up a lot of chances, if they had good goaltending they should win this game with 4 goals scored.

Thanks for the review of the 1st Eichel goal.  Saw Eichel all alone & knew somebody f'ed up.  (Didn't go back to watch the play develop.)  Knew Lyubushkin was very far to the left side of the zone, but hadn't seen how he ended up there.  Seems Power should've shifted more to his right.

[Taro T]

Just now, SwampD said:

I didn’t see that when everyone here was saying those things, and I didn’t see it when the intermission guys were saying that. And I still don’t see the domination that everyone is talking about. I mean, unless their game-plan is to just get as many perimeter shots as possible and hope for a flukey goal?

Same with the Chi game.

 

Guess the game looks different when one is in the building.  

It wasn't like they were all doing their Miro Satan imitations.  Nor were they staying to the far perimeter when controlling the puck like they did against the Yotes.  They were getting to the slot & they were getting good shots.  They (exception being Skinner, & he just seemed to be at the wrong spot) just weren't getting enough bodies to the net front.  And when they did, the rebound squirted out the other side or it was one of thehandful of shots Montembeault stopped clean & didn't give up a rebound.

[SwampD]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

Guess the game looks different when one is in the building.  

It wasn't like they were all doing their Miro Satan imitations.  Nor were they staying to the far perimeter when controlling the puck like they did against the Yotes.  They were getting to the slot & they were getting good shots.  They (exception being Skinner, & he just seemed to be at the wrong spot) just weren't getting enough bodies to the net front.  And when they did, the rebound squirted out the other side or it was one of thehandful of shots Montembeault stopped clean & didn't give up a rebound.

I just don’t see a bunch of skating around for a one and done as domination. 

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, JohnC said:

I didn't watch the game last night so I can't fairly comment on it. However, I did see the clips of the game. Without getting into the circular good or bad guy argument about him (my minority position is well known) what is evident to me is that Jack was right in his steadfast stance regarding his surgery preference. From the few glimpses of him from a variety of games it seems as if he has completely regained his physical capabilities. In one broadcast on another game it was pointed out following his surgery and successful results two other players had a similar procedure done. It seems that Jack was right on the treatment issue. 

You don't know that.

The concern w/ the surgery that he chose is there isn't much data on whether there will be a failure of the artificial disk given the type of hits he'll receive and the the number of them.  Should it fail, there is a serious risk of it being catastrophic. 

He wanted it because the recovery time was less than that of the fusion surgery plus he'd have better range of movement of the neck relative to the other procedure.  But, if he ends up paralyzed, those other advantages won't really matter now will they.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Taro T

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I just don’t see a bunch of skating around for a one and done as domination. 

Well, if that's what you saw, we werewatching different games.

[SwampD]

16 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Well, if that's what you saw, we werewatching different games.

IMO, the whole “they simply weren’t scoring” was because the goalie never seemed out of position for the shot. With all this puck control and “domination,” did they honestly ever look dangerous to you? If so, then we are absolutely watching different games.

I really need to see some good hockey soon. I’m tired of excuses. Maybe someone could tell the team they are already knocked out of the playoffs.😂

Edited November 11, 2022 by SwampD

[SwampD]

On a completely different note, how the hell was Eichel so wide open on the first goal? I mean,…