The Italian Kid Did It!

[shrader]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Very likely true.  As Hammister was woefully undercapitalized and almost certainly would've become the owner there was a very good chance that he'd've pulled an Art Modell with the team just like he did with the Destroyers or else that he'd've sold to Balsillie who would've moved the club.

It definitely would've been even more tumultuous.

Let's not forget that Hamister's money guy is/was in jail for a while.  That tandem would have worked out so well for this organization.

[MattPie]

2 minutes ago, ISmelikZhitnik said:

Seems like it might have been warranted. When something goes wrong and a room full of highly paid professionals can't even muster a thought as to whose responsibility it was? Thats an accountability issue that wouldn't fly at Burger King. 

Maybe it makes Golisano a prick but I bet a lesson was learned that day: take ownership and treat it like its your own money.  If you don't want to stew for 45 minutes, take responsibility for your mistakes.  

I work in an environment where I feel 100% comfortable to say, "I F'd Up and this what we need to figure out to fix it." My leaderpeople will understand and work trhough it. I'm betting that's not the case with OSP. If you want open and honest communication with subordinates you don't play mind games with them during a meeting.

[ISmelikZhitnik]

4 minutes ago, MattPie said:

I work in an environment where I feel 100% comfortable to say, "I F'd Up and this what we need to figure out to fix it." My leaderpeople will understand and work trhough it. I'm betting that's not the case with OSP. If you want open and honest communication with subordinates you don't play mind games with them during a meeting.

Thats neat. I have a job too!  

I'm sure Golisano would be super interested in learning more about the leadership styles that made MattPie and SmelikZhitnik the message board phenoms that we are today.

[MattPie]

6 minutes ago, ISmelikZhitnik said:

Thats neat. I have a job too!  

I'm sure Golisano would be super interested in learning more about the leadership styles that made MattPie and SmelikZhitnik the message board phenoms that we are today.

I'm truly very happy for you!

[spndnchz]

Yawn

[inkman]

Golisano during meetings 

[Taro T]

44 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Why are you asking me why the insult?

I think in the big picture OSP left the events of July 2007 behind in August of 2007. I highly doubt it was top of mind then and certainly not at the time he wrote the book. The day of infamy lives on only in the minds of a few superfans.

Hardly anyone cares. I don't see why he wouldn't be telling the truth. To protect himself from scorn? Everyone knows who drove the franchise into a ditch... on purpose.

You know, this take is actually kind of funny.  He doesn't remember anything about the negotiation but yet he manages to summarize large portions of what others were doing while not including his role in it.  Really?  He manages to recollect what others were doing but forgot his role.  In HIS OWN BIOGRAPHY. 

What was his thought process in that, PA?  Well, clearly people aren't interested in what B Thomas Golisano was doing at the time nor his role in the events, but here's what others were doing.  Are the rest of the chapters written that way as well?  Must be one heck of a page turner if that's the case.  Wouldn't a better title for the book then be "the Italian Kid Got Swept Up by It?"

Strains credulity; especially when 2 points are considered: this negotiation was a clear break from the previous policy of no in-season negotiations and his role in this failed negotiation in large part set in motion the dismantling of one of the best teams the Sabres ever had.  But, surely that was merely an oversight and not in any way intentional in the man's own biography.  🙄

[Pimlach]

13 hours ago, woods-racer said:

He made his money in the check cashing business. Cashed checks and made a lot of money doing it to the people that could least afford it and then got lucky when he took a chance on a hockey team. He is what he is. OSP sums him up.

Thank you for sharing. I'm surprised anyone would actually read a book about him.

He made some of his money by starting an innovative company (Paychex) that provides payroll and HR solutions to other companies that chose not to do this work themselves.  The payroll part produces the accounting and payroll paycheck generation, most of which is direct deposit anyway.  You make it sound like he is exploiting poor people by charging excessive fees to cash a check.  

It’s clear you don’t like him but can you explain the comments in bold or clarify?   

[woods-racer]

5 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

He made some of his money by starting an innovative company (Paychex) that provides payroll and HR solutions to other companies that chose not to do this work themselves.  The payroll part produces the accounting and payroll paycheck generation, most of which is direct deposit anyway.  You make it sound like he is exploiting poor people by charging excessive fees to cash a check.  

It’s clear you don’t like him but can you explain the comments in bold or clarify?   

I have some family in Rochester that said the beginning where as I stated, then the back room came into play. I can in no way verify his $3,000.00 company start  up first 2 years. 

I/they can be completely wrong. He may have been the fore front of all back room payroll and tax reporting from the very beginning.

[PASabreFan]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

You evidently have a bizarre (or maybe no) understanding of how "the truth" works when pushed through the sausage grinder of an individual's ego and subjectivity. Even wonkier still when we add in the passage of time.

I wish I had your profound understanding of the truth. Maybe someday when I'm older.

I merely see no reason for Golisano to lie about it. If OSP 2022 has any vivid memory of a controversy surrounding the co captains, I'd be surprised.

He's done too many things in his life, including Monica ***** Seles.

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Why are you asking me why the insult?

I think in the big picture OSP left the events of July 2007 behind in August of 2007. I highly doubt it was top of mind then and certainly not at the time he wrote the book. The day of infamy lives on only in the minds of a few superfans.

Hardly anyone cares. I don't see why he wouldn't be telling the truth. To protect himself from scorn? Everyone knows who drove the franchise into a ditch... on purpose.

I asked you about the insult because it seemed unwarranted and strange.

I agree that Black Sunday isn't top of mind for OSP at present, but since he took the time to write about it in his memoirs, he clearly cares enough about it to present his version of events.

As for why he wouldn't be telling the truth -- this has been asked and answered.  I'll just add that someone tone-deaf enough to brag about making a huge profit on flipping the Sabres in a deal involving substantial public money from a state with a crippled economy is also likely to think that the public will eventually start to believe him if he keeps insisting on a version of events that whitewashes his culpability.

 

2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

By all accounts and by his own words, Golisano is/was a monstrous as*hole.

He was also an enormously effective and successful (and, yes, imperfect) owner of my favourite hockey team.

Nosirree, unless you define success as making a ton of cash on the purchase and sale of the team.  He was in the right place and right time to buy the team with almost zero financial risk, and for the magical 05-06 run, which he followed up on by providing terrible stewardship and running the team into the ground before cashing out.

 

1 hour ago, ISmelikZhitnik said:

Thats neat. I have a job too!  

I'm sure Golisano would be super interested in learning more about the leadership styles that made MattPie and SmelikZhitnik the message board phenoms that we are today.

This is obnoxious.

[Porous Five Hole]

10 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

As for why he wouldn't be telling the truth -- this has been asked and answered.  I'll just add that someone tone-deaf enough to brag about making a huge profit on flipping the Sabres in a deal involving substantial public money from a state with a crippled economy is also likely to think that the public will eventually start to believe him if he keeps insisting on a version of events that whitewashes his culpability.

 

 

This part isn’t correct. In the book, Golisano specifically railed against the Hamister public/private partnership (50M in public money) that fell apart.  
 

BTG explicitly stated no public money was part of his purchase of the team.  

[MattPie]

55 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I wish I had your profound understanding of the truth. Maybe someday when I'm older.

I merely see no reason for Golisano to lie about it. If OSP 2022 has any vivid memory of a controversy surrounding the co captains, I'd be surprised.

He's done too many things in his life, including Monica ***** Seles.

You don't see a reason for someone writing their own biography to paint themselves in the best possible light on a controversial topic? Truly?

[nfreeman]

7 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

This part isn’t correct. In the book, Golisano specifically railed against the Hamister public/private partnership (50M in public money) that fell apart.  
 

BTG explicitly stated no public money was part of his purchase of the team.  

OSP saying this isn't the same as it being true -- and in fact it's of a piece with his description of the Drury debacle.

The state forgave $25MM in debt as part of the deal:  https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/tom-saved-hockey-in-buffalo-how-the-golisano-years-rescued-the-sabres/article_6ae709fc-fac8-5e61-bb8d-ea60ff8e35cb.html

 

Quote

Golisano reached an agreement with the league in March 2003 to buy the Sabres. The deal was valued at $92 million, though the actual cash payment was $15 million. The rest of that figure, Quinn explained recently to The News, was calculated by including $22 million in assumed debt, $25 million in debt that was forgiven, $10 million that each team had to set aside in advance of the impending 2004-05 lockout season, and other factors.

 

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/en/Daily/Issues/2003/04/02/Franchises/NY-May-Pave-Way-For-Golisano-Purchase-With-$25M-Writeoff

Quote

Prospective Sabres Owner B. Thomas Golisano has asked the state of NY "to write off a $25[M] loan to the government provided to construct HSBC Arena," something state officials "say they are inclined to do," according to Tom Precious of the BUFFALO NEWS. State officials indicated that "no one has ever paid a dollar on that loan anyway" and noted that Golisano "promises to keep the Sabres in Buffalo for at least 25 years." Golisano told NY Gov. George Pataki's administration officials that "he should not be saddled with the (Former Sabres Owner John) Rigas loan." Empire State Development Corp. Chair Charles Gargano said of the writeoff, "If it means making a deal, we're inclined to do that." Golisano: "This is a financial failure that happened prior to our involvement. It was never our assumption this would be part of the purchase price (of the Sabres) because, quite frankly, I would never have paid it."

 

[ISmelikZhitnik]

42 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I asked you about the insult because it seemed unwarranted and strange.

I agree that Black Sunday isn't top of mind for OSP at present, but since he took the time to write about it in his memoirs, he clearly cares enough about it to present his version of events.

As for why he wouldn't be telling the truth -- this has been asked and answered.  I'll just add that someone tone-deaf enough to brag about making a huge profit on flipping the Sabres in a deal involving substantial public money from a state with a crippled economy is also likely to think that the public will eventually start to believe him if he keeps insisting on a version of events that whitewashes his culpability.

 

Nosirree, unless you define success as making a ton of cash on the purchase and sale of the team.  He was in the right place and right time to buy the team with almost zero financial risk, and for the magical 05-06 run, which he followed up on by providing terrible stewardship and running the team into the ground before cashing out.

 

This is obnoxious.

What do you call it when people trade anecdotes comparing their own employment experience to running an NHL an franchise as a basis for supporting an opinion that the guy who built a $40 billon company is an unscrupulous, psycho that doesn't know anything about leadership or management? 

We have people using this one story as a basis for all sorts of judgements and "insights" into his psyche. Perhaps Tom should have cut the story about holding Darcy's feet to the fire for 45 minutes and gone with the chapter about the time payroll processing was late and a meeting was held with all the department leads to diagnose the issue and enable protocols to avoid similar issues in the future.  That would be a real page turner.  

[That Aud Smell]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

I wish I had your profound understanding of the truth. Maybe someday when I'm older.

I merely see no reason for Golisano to lie about it. If OSP 2022 has any vivid memory of a controversy surrounding the co captains, I'd be surprised.

He's done too many things in his life, including Monica ***** Seles.

I do peddle in the truth, and how it gets shaded, massaged, enhanced … okay, I’ll stop.

Golisano doesn’t need a reason to lie in order to remember things in a self-serving way. He just needs to be human. 

And the tendency to self-serve with memory is stronger when you’re a rich as*hole.

Also, you argue at cross purposes when you say Golisano would have no clear memory of the fallout of 7/1/07. It’s even more difficult to be truthful when you don’t have a clear memory — some would say damn near impossible.

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Nosirree, unless you define success as making a ton of cash on the purchase and sale of the team.  He was in the right place and right time to buy the team with almost zero financial risk, and for the magical 05-06 run, which he followed up on by providing terrible stewardship and running the team into the ground before cashing out.

Fair!

Sometimes better to be lucky than good.

Edited July 12, 2022 by That Aud Smell

[MattPie]

1 hour ago, ISmelikZhitnik said:

What do you call it when people trade anecdotes comparing their own employment experience to running an NHL an franchise as a basis for supporting an opinion that the guy who built a $40 billon company is an unscrupulous, psycho that doesn't know anything about leadership or management? 

We have people using this one story as a basis for all sorts of judgements and "insights" into his psyche. Perhaps Tom should have cut the story about holding Darcy's feet to the fire for 45 minutes and gone with the chapter about the time payroll processing was late and a meeting was held with all the department leads to diagnose the issue and enable protocols to avoid similar issues in the future.  That would be a real page turner.  

Treating people with respect costs nothing, you'd think OSP would be all over it. But he (based on this account and the goose follies) appears to be just another rich dude that can't treat people he has power over as human beings.

Edited July 12, 2022 by MattPie

[Porous Five Hole]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

OSP saying this isn't the same as it being true -- and in fact it's of a piece with his description of the Drury debacle.

The state forgave $25MM in debt as part of the deal:  https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/tom-saved-hockey-in-buffalo-how-the-golisano-years-rescued-the-sabres/article_6ae709fc-fac8-5e61-bb8d-ea60ff8e35cb.html

 

 

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/en/Daily/Issues/2003/04/02/Franchises/NY-May-Pave-Way-For-Golisano-Purchase-With-$25M-Writeoff

 

This is true that the state did that, but that could have just as much been a part of the BK restructure proceedings versus a purchase contingency. 
 

I assume the loan was in default from two owners ago.  

[Buffalonill]

 

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, ISmelikZhitnik said:

What do you call it when people trade anecdotes comparing their own employment experience to running an NHL an franchise as a basis for supporting an opinion that the guy who built a $40 billon company is an unscrupulous, psycho that doesn't know anything about leadership or management? 

We have people using this one story as a basis for all sorts of judgements and "insights" into his psyche. Perhaps Tom should have cut the story about holding Darcy's feet to the fire for 45 minutes and gone with the chapter about the time payroll processing was late and a meeting was held with all the department leads to diagnose the issue and enable protocols to avoid similar issues in the future.  That would be a real page turner.  

Well, no one said unscrupulous or psycho or that OSP didn't know anything about leadership or management.

What did happen is that a number of posters -- all of whom almost certainly have not built a company the size of Paychex -- criticized the management technique that OSP was bragging about in that episode and compared it with their own professional experiences.  If you disagree with those comparisons, you might characterize them as "inappropriate" or even "ill-considered" -- but not obnoxious, which is how your last couple of posts in this thread read.

Welcome to the board, and you are free to defend OSP all you like (as I have done on many occasions), but this is not how we communicate here.

 

15 minutes ago, MattPie said:

Treating people with respect costs nothing, you'd think OSP would be all over it. But he (based on this account and the goose follies) appears to be just another rich white dude that can't treat people he has power over as human beings.

What does his race have to do with it?  Are members of other races immune from this type of poor behavior?

 

5 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

This is true that the state did that, but that could have just as much been a part of the BK restructure proceedings versus a purchase contingency. 
 

I assume the loan was in default from two owners ago.  

You are probably correct that the loan was already in the default, but OSP was the one who got the benefit of the loan forgiveness, which was borne by the state.

[MattPie]

1 minute ago, nfreeman said:

What does his race have to do with it?  Are members of other races immune from this type of poor behavior?.

Fair, I edited my original post.

[SwampD]

6 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

FTR my quote was sarcastic. Tom's a straight shooter. When he bought the team he said he didn't know a puck from a meatball. 15 years after the Drury affair he has no motive to lie. Unlike some fans he was probably over the whole thing within weeks. No need to cover things up years later. The owner vs. the stick boy's gf's uncle? I weigh the owner's word more.

Just because he remembers it differently, doesn’t mean he is lying. Do people really believe that there was an agreement literally sitting on his desk? And he just ignored it? 

5 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Why are you asking me why the insult?

I think in the big picture OSP left the events of July 2007 behind in August of 2007. I highly doubt it was top of mind then and certainly not at the time he wrote the book. The day of infamy lives on only in the minds of a few superfans.

Hardly anyone cares. I don't see why he wouldn't be telling the truth. To protect himself from scorn? Everyone knows who drove the franchise into a ditch... on purpose.

Obviously, it lives on in his mind as well. Otherwise, why write about it in your own memoire? 

 

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

He made some of his money by starting an innovative company (Paychex) that provides payroll and HR solutions to other companies that chose not to do this work themselves.  The payroll part produces the accounting and payroll paycheck generation, most of which is direct deposit anyway.  You make it sound like he is exploiting poor people by charging excessive fees to cash a check.  

It’s clear you don’t like him but can you explain the comments in bold or clarify?   

I might be remembering this incorrectly, but I believe the HR stuff was implemented after he sold it. Your point still stands, though.

[PASabreFan]

Tom's account is more plausible than, as Swamp points out, a contract sitting on the owner's desk as he snores, the feather going up and coming back down on his nose time and again. Or however the old cartoon went.

Yeah Chris and his agent were really antsy to get that deal done.

[Taro T]

24 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Just because he remembers it differently, doesn’t mean he is lying. Do people really believe that there was an agreement literally sitting on his desk? And he just ignored it? 

Obviously, it lives on in his mind as well. Otherwise, why write about it in your own memoire? 

 

I might be remembering this incorrectly, but I believe the HR stuff was implemented after he sold it. Your point still stands, though.

Don't believe anybody said that he ignored it; if they did it was hyperbolic.  But this would have been far and away the biggest & longest player contract he had handed out and he was still professing he thought EVERYBODY should be on a 1 day contract (even though the CBA & reality made that an impossibility).  He mulled it over too long & might as well have ignored it as the excessive length of the delay is why Drury backed out.  You honestly don't see where he'd want to mull this over a bit?  Well, mulling it over too ####ing long started a domino chain that to a certain degree we still feel today.  He didn't negotiate the deal but he darn sure was the one who would or wouldn't sign off on it.  And he didn't want to lose money in ANY season and told his people that was the mandate.  No way a contract like this doesn't give him pause.  Unfortunately for all of us, it gave him too much.

[nfreeman]

No one is saying OSP ignored the Drury deal or fell asleep at the switch.  I, and I think others, believe that OSP felt like he had a free option sitting on his desk that he could exercise whenever he wanted -- and it was in his interest to wait to exercise it.  He waited too long, and Drury, who was ambivalent about staying but willing to do so, got PO'd and bolted.