Patrick Kane

[Andrew Amerk]

On 6/24/2022 at 8:45 AM, JohnC said:

People get irritated when I bring up the Ullmark negotiation. So, I apologize for the belabored responses on this issue.  Many don't understand what my position is on this goalie issue. Ullmark was an UFA player. And it was apparent that his contract demands were increasing (as you noted). My criticism of the GM on this issue is that he didn't have an adequate fallback position if a deal couldn't be worked out with the goalie. Finding an adequate goalie is not an easy task under any circumstances. But when your primary goalie is an UFA, and he is equivocating in his negotiations, then a better backup option should have been prepared prior to the conclusion of the futile negotiations. 

I'm hoping this offseason the GM will be able to come up with a better option for the position. In my view, how he addresses the issue will be the most significant transaction he will make this offseason. 

We lost a very good poster over the Ullmark issue. 

This tells me the Sabres were the problem. 

[PerreaultForever]

10 hours ago, Brawndo said:

No, Kane should come in at 3x6million. Forsberg is 27 and Fiala is 25, meaning they will be higher AAV with longer term. 
 

Besides Kane’s Actual Salary the His Contract’s Last Three Years was 7 Million, 6.9 Million and 6.9 Million. 

That definitely makes sense to me. regarding Kane. 

Forsberg might, but I will be curious to see if Fiala gets anywhere near what you are projecting. I don't think he will. 

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, SwampD said:

My point is that we won’t get him for free in a year, because we won’t get him at all. He will be moved by then.

This makes no sense. He will still be a UFA after the year is over, even if he does agree to be moved to a contender for a cup run at deadline. I doubt he'd care about that though, he already has a bunch of rings. He's only going to do what is right for him and his family. 

The only scenario where we give up anything bigger is IF by some miracle we are in the playoff hunt at the deadline. Then maybe. and only maybe. 

[Rasmus_]

Pass.  If he was walking into UFA and wanted to come to Buffalo; great.  However, he'll cost premium assets.  No interest in overpaying for an over 33 year old player.  Regardless of how amazing he is. He doesn't put this team over.

[North Buffalo]

1 hour ago, Rasmus_ said:

Pass.  If he was walking into UFA and wanted to come to Buffalo; great.  However, he'll cost premium assets.  No interest in overpaying for an over 33 year old player.  Regardless of how amazing he is. He doesn't put this team over.

I dont pass, but like buying a used car you have to be ready to walk maybe multiple times if the deal isnt worth it... The UFA part is the leverage... Im okay giving up 28th, and and AHLer not named Quinn or Peterka... something to kick the tires on... Im ok if it doesnt happen.

[Curt]

7 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

We lost a very good poster over the Ullmark issue. 

This tells me the Sabres were the problem. 

Really?  A poster got mad, so that’s proof that the Sabres were in the wrong.  That’s a hilarious notion.

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, tom webster said:

It definitely makes sense for the players to sign shorter term, especially if they are confident in their abilities  but most of them stupidly jump at what they see as financial security and guarantees and a lot of their agents push for it as well.

Dahlin is a player who was confident in his abilities (as you smartly and concisely stated) was amenable to a short-term bridge deal. It didn't take him too long under the tutelage of his new coach to demonstrate that he has the talent and to be considered one of the elite defenders in the league. His strategic approach to negotiating contract will pay off handsomely for him. 

[tom webster]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Dahlin is a player who was confident in his abilities (as you smartly and concisely stated) was amenable to a short-term bridge deal. It didn't take him too long under the tutelage of his new coach to demonstrate that he has the talent and to be considered one of the elite defenders in the league. His strategic approach to negotiating contract will pay off handsomely for him. 

Exactly.

[nfreeman]

49 minutes ago, Curt said:

Really?  A poster got mad, so that’s proof that the Sabres were in the wrong.  That’s a hilarious notion.

He was joking you hoser.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

55 minutes ago, Curt said:

Really?  A poster got mad, so that’s proof that the Sabres were in the wrong.  That’s a hilarious notion.

He was a friend of Linus and were from the same town in Sweden.  They were tight and he was a fan of Linus and when Linus became a Sabre he became a Sabre fan.  He came to Buffalo and Rochester and was universally liked and respected.

He had first hand knowlwedge of what went down between the Sabres and Linus and said it was bad.

He was not mad that Linus left, but how it happened.  He not only left this board.  He left the Sabres and Buffalo.

[Curt]

4 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

He was a friend of Linus and were from the same town in Sweden.  They were tight and he was a fan of Linus and when Linus became a Sabre he became a Sabre fan.  He came to Buffalo and Rochester and was universally liked and respected.

He had first hand knowlwedge of what went down between the Sabres and Linus and said it was bad.

He was not mad that Linus left, but how it happened.  He not only left this board.  He left the Sabres and Buffalo.

I recall that he was from Sweden and claimed to have heard things from people locally.  I don’t recall him ever claiming to be friends or tight with Linus.  I do recall him being so relentlessly negative/tiresome that I had him blocked much of the time.

In my opinion he wasn’t much of a Sabres fan, but was a fan of Ullmark.

[Curt]

18 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

He was joking you hoser.

I don’t believe that he was.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

11 minutes ago, Curt said:

I recall that he was from Sweden and claimed to have heard things from people locally.  I don’t recall him ever claiming to be friends or tight with Linus.  I do recall him being so relentlessly negative/tiresome that I had him blocked much of the time.

In my opinion he wasn’t much of a Sabres fan, but was a fan of Ullmark.

He travelled to Buffalo and Rochester to see his fellow Sabre and Americans fans.  To spend time in the Buffalo and area.  To attend a Sabre game and Americans game.  I don't think someone that was a fan of one player would do all that.

27 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

He was joking you hoser.

I think you are wrong.

8 minutes ago, Curt said:

I don’t believe that he was.

I think that you are right.

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

We lost a very good poster over the Ullmark issue. 

This tells me the Sabres were the problem. 

Player movement in sports is an inescapable part of the business. Organizations act in their best interest, as do players. Money considerations is a major factor for organizations, as it is for players. It's a business as much as it is a sport. There is no doubt that the Sabres were known as a tumultuous and unstable franchise. That was clearly reflected in their record. 

More and more after his departure it appears that Ullmark wanted to leave. That shouldn't be surprising. So did Jack, Risto, Reinhart, McCabe, ROR, Hall etc. That shouldn't be surprising for players who have been stuck in losing franchises for their whole careers. My point is that Ullmark who was a UFA acted in his best interest. He had the leverage and he acted on it. More power to him. 

My basic point is that very often it is misguided to look for who is the good guy or the bad guy. It's the nature of the business where players and organizations have to make tough decisions in what they perceive to be their best interest. 

[Taro T]

38 minutes ago, Curt said:

I recall that he was from Sweden and claimed to have heard things from people locally.  I don’t recall him ever claiming to be friends or tight with Linus.  I do recall him being so relentlessly negative/tiresome that I had him blocked much of the time.

In my opinion he wasn’t much of a Sabres fan, but was a fan of Ullmark.

Pretty sure that the background was that he was a fan of Ullmark's because Linus had played for his local team MODO.  When he came stateside, he & several other Sabrespacers got to meet Ullmark courtesy of Mrs. iT after an Amerks game.  Those 2 had quite a long conversation & IIRC they did end up becoming friends and hung out in Sweden some during the summers when Linus & his family headed back for the off-seasons.  Maybe MODO was full of doo-doo about that last part or there's misremembering here, but doubt he'd lie about something like that.

[Curt]

28 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Pretty sure that the background was that he was a fan of Ullmark's because Linus had played for his local team MODO.  When he came stateside, he & several other Sabrespacers got to meet Ullmark courtesy of Mrs. iT after an Amerks game.  Those 2 had quite a long conversation & IIRC they did end up becoming friends and hung out in Sweden some during the summers when Linus & his family headed back for the off-seasons.  Maybe MODO was full of doo-doo about that last part or there's misremembering here, but doubt he'd lie about something like that.

Definitely not accusing anyone of lying.  Like I said, I found him so tiresomely negative that I usually had him blocked, so I probably missed some stuff.

[Taro T]

Just now, Curt said:

Definitely not accusing anyone of lying.  Like I said, I found him so tiresomely negative that I usually had him blocked, so I probably missed some stuff.

And not accusing you or anyone else of calling him a liar.  Poor choice of words.  That meetup was something like 4 years ago now.

🍺

 

[Marvin]

11 hours ago, SwampD said:

Oh, yeah.

 

I don't understand why people are so upset about violins on television.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I don't understand why people are so upset about violins on television.

Nor why people are so concerned about natural race horses.  What about other horses & ponies too?

[Cheektorado]

8 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

I dont pass, but like buying a used car you have to be ready to walk maybe multiple times if the deal isnt worth it... The UFA part is the leverage... Im okay giving up 28th, and and AHLer not named Quinn or Peterka... something to kick the tires on... Im ok if it doesnt happen.

Agree.  Get negotiations going and get Kane's input.  It COULD put pressure on Chicago to go for something a lot less than they hoped for.

Also, negotiations could give KA a good opportunity to line out what a Kane future with the Sabres would look like.  I agree with some posters that brought up the point that if Kane signs an extension and his play falls off it will affect their ability in future signings.  If Kane was willing to sign a reasonable 2023-2024 one-year extension with the caveat of signing one-year deals after that, it could be a great deal for the Sabres.

If Chicago and or Kane laugh this off KA can always just walk away.  I say all this believing that a decent GK and Kane put the Sabres "back on the map" and into the playoffs next year.

[Doohickie]

On 6/23/2022 at 8:59 PM, Brawndo said:

Ullmark’s Camp kept moving the goalposts in negotiations, something to keep in mind. 

Really?  Were you privy to the negotiations?

[Doohickie]

On 6/25/2022 at 8:31 AM, SwampD said:

Is that the cool way of saying, “I don’t think we should try to get Kane,” because you won’t get him if that is your plan.

Teams don’t let their top assets walk for nothing. Not smart teams, anyway (the Sabres have done it a few times.)

In July of 2023 Kane will be available as a FA unless he re-signs with Chicago or is traded by Chicago and signs with his new club.  But... if his goal is to finish his career in his hometown the Sabres could sign him next summer without giving up any assets. 

Sure, maybe Chicago trades him at the deadline but the Sabres could still sign him during free agency the following summer.

[tom webster]

Just now, Doohickie said:

In July of 2023 Kane will be available as a FA unless he re-signs with Chicago or is traded by Chicago and signs with his new club.  But... if his goal is to finish his career in his hometown the Sabres could sign him next summer without giving up any assets. 

Sure, maybe Chicago trades him at the deadline but the Sabres could still sign him during free agency the following summer.

Or, they trade him this off-season and he decides to re-up with the team he gets traded to. A lot of people seem to be assuming it’s now or next off-season but there’s no guarantee he’s free next year.

[Doohickie]

21 hours ago, SwampD said:

My point is that we won’t get him for free in a year, because we won’t get him at all. He will be moved by then.

He will be moved by then but will still be a free agent next July.

18 hours ago, tom webster said:

but most of them stupidly jump at what they see as financial security

If you can't be financially secure at $6 million x 6 year contract, you need help.

[Doohickie]

15 hours ago, SwampD said:

Oh, yeah.

 

Ditto.  😛