Shopping Jack Eichel: Minnesota

[dudacek]

Will they be interested?

Highly. Minnesota has been surprisingly successful this year despite not having a clear-cut top line centre. In fact, it’s been the story for them pretty much their entire existence. General feeling is they see an Eichel as a bridge to becoming a true contender.

Do they have the pieces?

There seems to be a sweet spot in the Eichel trade market buzz for prospects who aren’t sure stars, but do have first line potential. The Wild have two such prospects in Matt Boldy and Marco Rossi. They have NHL pieces the Sabres could use like Foligno, Greenway, Erickson Ek, Fiala and Matt Dumba, who is vulnerable to the expansion draft. And they have two firsts this year.

Would this work?

Boldy, Rossi, Dumba and a 1st for Eichel

When the report surfaced that the Sabres were looking for the equivalent of 4 firsts in an Eichel trade, this certainly fits the bill. Boldy and Rossi certainly show every sign of being a Pominville/Roy level combo and Dumba effectively is a replacement and upgrade for Risto. Doctors would have to clear Rossi, just as they would Eichel. The Wild give up a hefty chunk of their future, but console themselves with Jack Eichel. It’s not as sexy as some proposals fans might prefer, but it is a solid, competitive offer.

Is there a deal to be made with the Wild?

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by dudacek

[#freejame]

I don’t have much to say other than I like Boldy more than Rossi but I don’t want either to be the centerpiece of an Eichel deal. Turcotte is better than both of them. 

[fiftyone]

I had posted something similar a couple weeks ago, but replaced the first with Fiala. 

It seems like a trade that you're not really sure about, which probably means it's pretty close to fair. Though, from Minnesota's perspective, that may mean they'll feel like they're giving up too much.

[LGR4GM]

Rossi... Marco Rossi.... yes all the yeses. 

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, #freejame said:

I don’t have much to say other than I like Boldy more than Rossi but I don’t want either to be the centerpiece of an Eichel deal. Turcotte is better than both of them. 

I don’t know that I agree with that.

Boldy outscored him in both college and the minors, and IMO looked better at the WJC. He’s an underrated and very complete player. Rossi’s draft year was better than Turcotte’s.

I think it’s pretty hard to argue Turcotte is on a higher tier. And part of the appeal with this deal is two Turcotte-level prospects.

[Thorny]

The health status of Rossi is a concern to me. The deal gives us nothing in the way of now-NHL forward talent. I don't like this deal very much at all, but I can see why some would say the value seems higher than some of the other deals. 

[#freejame]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don’t know that I agree with that.

Boldy outscored him in both college and the minors, and IMO looked better at the WJC. He’s an underrated and very complete player. Rossi’s draft year was better than Turcotte’s.

I think it’s pretty hard to argue Turcotte is on a higher tier. And part of the appeal with this deal is two Turcotte-level prospects.

I should have rephrased—I like Turcotte more than both of them. I am not as enamored with Rossi as others are, but I do like Boldy a lot. I’m almost to the point where unless an Eichel trade swings wildly in either direction, I will be ambivalent. 

[steveoath]

This has appeal.  I wouldn't be upset at all.  I like the idea of boldy and rossi. And along with Cozens, quinn, casey, dahlin, jokiharju etc the sabres could progress as a solid unit together under the tutelage of development guru Granato. I would even offer to swap firsts this year if it would seal the deal. 

[Weave]

Duda, I want to say thank you for doing this.  I know what a trade for Jack that I approve of looks like conceptually, but 10 years of garbage hockey has left me uninterested in the NHL generally so I really can’t attach actual players to my conceptual idea of a good trade.  The responses here help me get an idea of what other teams have to offer.

[dudacek]

Apologies for bringing the Wild thread over to the Rangers, but when I see names like Turcotte, Rossi and Caufield being taken for granted as part of their team’s package, I can’t see the Rangers even getting a seat at the table if Lafreniere and Kakko are  not part of the conversation.

If they are serious, those names have to be involved because other teams will certainly be offering better centrepieces than  Filip Chytil.

[nfreeman]

19 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Apologies for bringing the Wild thread over to the Rangers, but when I see names like Turcotte, Rossi and Caufield being taken for granted as part of their team’s package, I can’t see the Rangers even getting a seat at the table if Lafreniere and Kakko are  not part of the conversation.

If they are serious, those names have to be involved because other teams will certainly be offering better centrepieces than  Filip Chytil.

I remain skeptical that another team will part with premium assets before seeing Eichel back 100% from his injury.  

[thewookie1]

2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I remain skeptical that another team will part with premium assets before seeing Eichel back 100% from his injury.  

Then we can't trade him

[dudacek]

Just now, nfreeman said:

I remain skeptical that another team will part with premium assets before seeing Eichel back 100% from his injury.  

Entirely fair.

But I think this conversation has to be predicated on the supposition that the acquiring team is OK with Eichel’s health.

[Thorny]

19 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Entirely fair.

But I think this conversation has to be predicated on the supposition that the acquiring team is OK with Eichel’s health.

That's one way he gets traded, for sure. 

The other way is Adams being OK with a return inclusive of the injury uncertainty. Not saying that's what'll happen, but it's a possibility. 

[miles]

The wild really have cap issues and need parise gone before they can even consider anything. He is there until 2025.

Dumba Has been trade bait by fans for a couple of years but he continues to stay in Minnesota. However even if the wild dump 2  young studs and dumba and a first, the wild still have a cap problem by several million and put them in impossible situations to sign fiala and kaprizov long term 

I don't see the wild trading 3 including dumba and fiala for jack either. Its too much. 

Parise would need to part of the deal for minnesota to do anything strictly to free up space on the cap for the wild to afford jack within cap requirements 

Or suter

 

Btw I follow the wild as much as the sabres. That said as strictly a wild fan, there is no way i give up fiala at all. I think he is untouchable. 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Mike Honcho

[PerreaultForever]

I have a question. You say the "general feeling" is they need an Eichel/top center to be a true contender but 1. aren't they already a contender? They are looking pretty good at the moment. and 2. Isn't their model entirely based on the opposite idea of a star center? Rather a solid team approach with multiple mid level stars rather than a few superstars?  I'm not sure a desire for a top 1C is their goal. I'm thinking that's just a fan thing. 

I mean every team wants a great player if you can just pop him in there but gutting your roster/prospect pool to get one guy is a whole other thing. 

Relying on a few star players certainly hasn't worked here. There's a lesson in that. 

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I have a question. You say the "general feeling" is they need an Eichel/top center to be a true contender but 1. aren't they already a contender? They are looking pretty good at the moment. and 2. Isn't their model entirely based on the opposite idea of a star center? Rather a solid team approach with multiple mid level stars rather than a few superstars?  I'm not sure a desire for a top 1C is their goal. I'm thinking that's just a fan thing. 

I mean every team wants a great player if you can just pop him in there but gutting your roster/prospect pool to get one guy is a whole other thing. 

Relying on a few star players certainly hasn't worked here. There's a lesson in that. 

We currently have 1 star player and no roster depth because we draft like a trash plate that was left in the sun while seagulls pooped on it for a month. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Do the Wild have any former Mooseheads?

I don't have time to check, but if they do then they better be included in this deal, eh.

[dudacek]

7 hours ago, Mike Honcho said:

I dont see the wild giving up the farm for jack. They really have cap issues and need parise gone before they can even consider anything. He is there until 2025.

Dumba Has been trade bait by fans for a couple of years but he continues to stay in Minnesota. However even if the wild dump 2  young studs and dumba and a first, the wild still have a cap problem by several million and put them in impossible situations to sign fiala and kaprizov long term 

I don't see the wild trading 3 including dumba and fiala for jack either. Its too much

 

Well, they seem poised to trade Dumba for a much more insignificant return than Jack prior to the expansion draft deadline.

And trading Jack for Dumba leaves them with about $14 million to sign Kaprizov, Fiala and Erikson Ek, which doesn’t seem impossible to me.

Maybe a one-year cap dump like Rask would have to play a part, but their cap situation doesn’t look dire to me.

Suter and Parise are bad contracts, but they will be there with or without Jack, who certainly makes their team better.

Edited May 28, 2021 by dudacek

[dudacek]

9 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I have a question. You say the "general feeling" is they need an Eichel/top center to be a true contender but 1. aren't they already a contender? They are looking pretty good at the moment. and 2. Isn't their model entirely based on the opposite idea of a star center? Rather a solid team approach with multiple mid level stars rather than a few superstars?  I'm not sure a desire for a top 1C is their goal. I'm thinking that's just a fan thing. 

I mean every team wants a great player if you can just pop him in there but gutting your roster/prospect pool to get one guy is a whole other thing. 

Relying on a few star players certainly hasn't worked here. There's a lesson in that. 

You may be right, but it certainly is a fan thing.

That said, the Insiders have listed the Wild among the teams heavily interested in Eichel. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by dudacek

[miles]

Dumba makes 6 million, they are losing quite a bit after this season but they still would be +4 million in salary. 

I still think short of parise or suter coming off the books, i dont see it happening. 

Kaprizov will probably ask and get 8 million. Fiala will be close to that too, maybe 6 or 7 million.  

 

Really buffalo should try to get someone like greenway. They need someone with his toughness. 

I honestly, just don't see it.  It also depends on Seattle. would they take dumba. There is no way they protect him

Edited May 27, 2021 by Mike Honcho

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We currently have 1 star player and no roster depth because we draft like a trash plate that was left in the sun while seagulls pooped on it for a month. 

You keep saying that, but that simply isn't true any longer.  Jbot, for all his faults, did draft well.  He also added Thompson, R2 and Jokiharju.  By the end of last season he already had 7 prospects on the Sabres.  Most look like solid players and many have star potential like Cozens, Dahlin, Mitts, UPL and R2.  He also has more on the way.  Laaksonen (AHL all-star), Weissbach, Rousek, Portillo and Huglen are legit prospects.  Add late bloomers like Asplund, Murray and Borgen and we have organizational depth for the first time in a decade.  

The 23 and under crowd that played for the Sabres last season include Dahlin, Mitts, Thompson, Asplund, Cozens, Bryson, Jokiharju, R2, UPL, Samuelsson, and Murray.  That's a fair amount of talent, depth and cap bargains.

Mitts, Asplund, and R2 all played at a 20 goal pace last season and Thompson nearly so.

 

[Hoss]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Rossi... Marco Rossi.... yes all the yeses. 

What do we know about his health?

[dudacek]

14 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Dumba makes 6 million, they are losing quite a bit after this season but they still would be +4 million in salary. 

I still think short of parise or suter coming off the books, i dont see it happening. 

Kaprizov will probably ask and get 8 million. Fiala will be close to that too, maybe 6 or 7 million.  

 

Really buffalo should try to get someone like greenway. They need someone with his toughness. 

I honestly, just don't see it.  It also depends on Seattle. would they take dumba. There is no way they protect him

What would you say to Fiala, Dumba and Rossi?

[Thorny]

42 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You keep saying that, but that simply isn't true any longer.  Jbot, for all his faults, did draft well.  He also added Thompson, R2 and Jokiharju.  By the end of last season he already had 7 prospects on the Sabres.  Most look like solid players and many have star potential like Cozens, Dahlin, Mitts, UPL and R2.  He also has more on the way.  Laaksonen (AHL all-star), Weissbach, Rousek, Portillo and Huglen are legit prospects.  Add late bloomers like Asplund, Murray and Borgen and we have organizational depth for the first time in a decade.  

The 23 and under crowd that played for the Sabres last season include Dahlin, Mitts, Thompson, Asplund, Cozens, Bryson, Jokiharju, R2, UPL, Samuelsson, and Murray.  That's a fair amount of talent, depth and cap bargains.

Mitts, Asplund, and R2 all played at a 20 goal pace last season and Thompson nearly so.

 

Most of the guys listed here are dime a dozen across other teams' prospect pools. We don't make up ground with our "Weissbach and Rousek" because other teams have their own versions of that guy, more less. We have a few stand outs like Cozens and Dahlin and perhaps Mitts, but I'm not ready to count on any of the others to be impact players at this stage. I'm sure some will be, be we aren't making up any ground versus other teams in this regard unless an abnormal amount hit. 

Maybe if Ruotalainen reaches his "star" potential??

We have been at such a dearth on the real roster in terms of high end talent that we are going to need more than we can even get from Cozens, Dahlin, Mittelstadt et all to make up the *significant* ground we need to. But I know this is where we differ, the view of whether we need significantly alter the roster or more less stand pat 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Thorny