Andrew Amerk Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: So the way to improve is to cave and give Eichel away? Okay. Or the way to improve is to stick Eichel in a cave and get nothing. I guess? Just now, mjd1001 said: Who is John? By context, I assume you mean Eichel? John Robert Eichel, yes. Jack, for short, somehow if you know him personally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, Hoss said: It’s obvious you and Webster are missing the entire point. The perception is the result of the failure. The failure is the problem, not the perception. So what's the point we're missing? The Sabres are the worst team in the league? People are laughing at us? We're totally incompetent? Sure, all true. So the answer is to set Jack Eichel free? Is that what you want? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 30 minutes ago, Pimlach said: You guys are arguing about who is the bad guy without any information. The “ respected” writer may only know what his source tells him, which likely is biased in some way. Eichel is sitting out the season. No GM is taking this in on with camps starting. There are no bad guys in this situation. Just an injured, highly talented player whom the Sabres want to trade and that just isn’t feasible given the nature of the injury, the constrictive nature of the CBA, and where we are in the current hockey year. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said: Or the way to improve is to stick Eichel in a cave and get nothing. I guess? As long as he's a Sabre he's an asset. Not a Sabre? You get nothing. So what would you do? Edited September 28, 2021 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, Hoss said: The mistake being made is the one where people assume Friedman’s rant wasn’t from dozens of conversations he’s had on this issue with many sources. Instead, Friedman’s “source” is mentioned singularly. That’s not how it works. It’s obvious you and Webster are missing the entire point. The perception is the result of the failure. The failure is the problem, not the perception. No, you are missing the point. Failure is making a deal just to make a deal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: As long as he's a Sabre he's an asset. Not a Sabre. You get nothing. So what would you do? It all depends on what other teams feel, I suppose. If other teams are okay with the surgery he wants, say okay and flip him for a top return. That’s their gamble. If teams don’t want him until he gets the traditional surgery, tell them to tell his agent so the Sabres and John can both move on. “Hey John, both the Bruins and Lightning will take you if you get the traditional surgery. What do you want to do?” Edited September 28, 2021 by Andrew Amerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashsabre Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 The whole thing is ridiculous from Jack’s end. His neck is injured. He needs surgery. There is a proven surgery for his injury. He doesn’t want it, he wants a very risky one with no history of its success in hockey. The reason: because he could get back sooner. But this dispute means even if he eventually gets “his” surgery by the time he gets back it will be way later then if he just got the trusted and approved surgery. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Andrew Amerk said: I understand that, but what would even be in there that isn’t already known about his injury? The severity of the injury, whether it’s improved at all with rest/time, what symptoms Eichel was/is feeling, probably a lot of other things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 19 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Absolutely. Show them to a team that is serious about making an offer. But do you show them to tire-kickers? At this point there is no purpose to withholding them unless you fear what’s inside of them will ruin all chances of a deal. If that’s the case then you should stop acting like a trade is possible and make it very clear he’s here until healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 13 minutes ago, tom webster said: No, you are missing the point. Failure is making a deal just to make a deal. Nobody is advocating for throwing him away but it’s time to get value for him which is very clearly not “four first-round equivalents.” It’s time to move on. This franchise will suffer the further this goes on. Beane is considered a mastermind because of how deliberate he has been. His moving players of consequence for what might have initially been perceived as below market value now looks absolutely masterful. He never had to trade THE guy but he’s dealt enough young starters to make it clear he knows how to do what needs to be done. Adams did it with Reinhart. It’s time to do it with Eichel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Curt said: The severity of the injury, whether it’s improved at all with rest/time, what symptoms Eichel was/is feeling, probably a lot of other things. He’s obviously good enough to skate in practices in Boston, but not good enough to pass a physical. The injury is severe enough to need a surgery. Seriously what would teams need to see? Everything is out in the public arena enough that me and you are talking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 For the purposes of conversation I'm defining Eichel's market value as the best offer on the table right now. I'm curious if people think Eichel's market value has some chance of increasing without a breakthrough in the surgery situation? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, dudacek said: For the purposes of conversation I'm defining Eichel's market value as the best offer on the table right now. I'm curious if people think Eichel's market value has some chance of increasing without a breakthrough in the surgery situation? What is the best offer on the table? A second round pick, a questionable prospect, and a La Nova arena pizza? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 11 minutes ago, Hoss said: Nobody is advocating for throwing him away but it’s time to get value for him which is very clearly not “four first-round equivalents.” It’s time to move on. This franchise will suffer the further this goes on. Beane is considered a mastermind because of how deliberate he has been. His moving players of consequence for what might have initially been perceived as below market value now looks absolutely masterful. He never had to trade THE guy but he’s dealt enough young starters to make it clear he knows how to do what needs to be done. Adams did it with Reinhart. It’s time to do it with Eichel. So you are advocating caving so you can move Eichel. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 17 minutes ago, Flashsabre said: The whole thing is ridiculous from Jack’s end. His neck is injured. He needs surgery. There is a proven surgery for his injury. He doesn’t want it, he wants a very risky one with no history of its success in hockey. The reason: because he could get back sooner. But this dispute means even if he eventually gets “his” surgery by the time he gets back it will be way later then if he just got the trusted and approved surgery. Eichel doesn’t want the “proven” surgery because it supposedly means he will need multiple surgeries for the rest of his life. He’s only 24. Most 24 year olds don’t need to make this kind of life decision. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 18 minutes ago, Hoss said: At this point there is no purpose to withholding them unless you fear what’s inside of them will ruin all chances of a deal. If that’s the case then you should stop acting like a trade is possible and make it very clear he’s here until healthy. If anything, the Sabres have acted like a trade isn’t possible as long as they have an injured player. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 19 minutes ago, Hoss said: At this point there is no purpose to withholding them unless you fear what’s inside of them will ruin all chances of a deal. If that’s the case then you should stop acting like a trade is possible and make it very clear he’s here until healthy. HIPAA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 Brisson, the NHL media and the other NHL GMs all want the Sabres to allow Jack his surgery so they assume all the risk. Setting aside any insurance or liability issues, say the Sabres allow Jack to get his ADR. Great. he's skating and can pass a physical. Then the story turns into "Well, how do we know Jack's surgery will stay that way? One hit and he could be a cripple. We'll give you a 6th round pick." So now we rolled the dice but still can't get anything for Eichel. But I guess it's worth it so reporters and NHL fans on Twitter stop calling us the worst franchise in hockey. Oh wait, that won't change either. In fact we'll look even worse because we got played. 6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said: What is the best offer on the table? A second round pick, a questionable prospect, and a La Nova arena pizza? Does it matter? The Sabres have been actively trying to trade Eichel, reportedly to multiple bidders for at least five months; they know his current market value. Do you think his value is going to increase without a breakthrough in the surgery standoff? Does anyone? Edited September 28, 2021 by dudacek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said: Eichel doesn’t want the “proven” surgery because it supposedly means he will need multiple surgeries for the rest of his life. He’s only 24. Most 24 year olds don’t need to make this kind of life decision. Funny how ADR surgery has become getting your tonsils out. Maybe because all you hear is how great it is. No one talks about the risk. It's very possible Jack is finished as an NHL player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 10 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: So you are advocating caving so you can move Eichel. Caving to the reality of the situation indeed. Shouldn’t be in a position to cave. Adams is clearly not living in reality. 5 minutes ago, pi2000 said: HIPAA Has nothing to do with the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 Just now, Hoss said: Caving to the reality of the situation indeed. Shouldn’t be in a position to cave. Adams is clearly not living in reality. Again, how would YOU have played it? Tell me the obvious right way this should have been handled. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norcal Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 So he failed his physical. Does that mean surgery is the only way to repair the injury or could it still heal with rest? I know the Sabres prefer the fusion but are they recommending surgery? Could he potentially rest and rehab until say January? Then he could come back a couple weeks for Buffalo before playing in the Olympics? That would give teams a chance to see if he's healthy and allow him to play in the Olympics which he said are important to him. If teams aren't going to trade for an injured player then Eichel better heal up one way or the other if he wants out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 14 minutes ago, Hoss said: Caving to the reality of the situation indeed. Shouldn’t be in a position to cave. Adams is clearly not living in reality. Has nothing to do with the situation. Clearly, Adams is not living in your reality. I think that’s a good thing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 4 hours ago, Hoss said: Other fan bases, both involved and not involved in pursuit of Eichel. You’ve already done the research and my results would be the same. There’s no reason to believe there would be a change in circumstance there. All things change with time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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