mjd1001 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, French Collection said: Here is a curveball. If he has surgery and is ready just in time for the Olympics, who’s insurance covers him during that tournament? I thought there was special insurance paid for by the IOC and the IIHF to cover guys. Playing well in the Olympics would raise his trade value without having to dress for the Sabres. That might not even be possible anymore. Even if he had Surgery this week...the Olympics are what....just over 4 months away? Between rehab from surgery and just time to get in 'hockey shape' and practice with teammates, the Olympics are quickly becoming an impossibility also. I thought the olympics would be a big push/incentive for him to get something done. No one in the NHL got to play in 2018, if he misses 2022, his next chance won't be until 2026. He'll be what, 29 or 30 by then? Edited September 28, 2021 by mjd1001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 39 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: He absolute has the authority but why would he assume the risk. If he does that, the team is liable for a procedure that the doctors said no on. Thus, he doesn’t have the authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 22 minutes ago, French Collection said: Here is a curveball. If he has surgery and is ready just in time for the Olympics, who’s insurance covers him during that tournament? I thought there was special insurance paid for by the IOC and the IIHF to cover guys. Playing well in the Olympics would raise his trade value without having to dress for the Sabres. Even if you gave Jack his surgery teams would still be skeptical and not offer anything of value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 1 hour ago, COSabreFan said: If he can’t overrule this, it might help to publicly say so. Something like, “I understand Jacks position, but I don’t have the authority to make it happen. It’s out of my hands.” Adams has deferred to the medical advice put forth by team doctors nearly every time he’s been asked about the impasse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, darksabre said: No. They won't. Because if they do, then it would be a tacit admission that they now accept the risk of the ADR procedure. Which they never will. If Jack gets the ADR surgery, his contract will be terminated before he's out of the operating room. The team doctors will never look at him. And his NHL career will be over until his contract with the Sabres is up. Yes. They will. Because if they don't, then it would be a tacit admission that they don't feel he's healthy enough to play again. If Jack gets the ADR surgery, his contract will be terminated only if the team doctors determine the procedure was a failure. Edited September 28, 2021 by pi2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 1 hour ago, K-9 said: Thus, he doesn’t have the authority. That is not accurate. Saying he does not have the authority means he cannot do it. The truth is he will not do it because of the liability it would place on him. Can not versus will not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 1 minute ago, pi2000 said: Yes. They will. Because if they don't, then it would be a tacit admission that they don't feel he's healthy enough to play again. If Jack gets the ADR surgery, his contract will be terminated only if the team doctors determine the procedure was a failure. I don't know what part of this you don't understand, but your logic is terribly flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 1 hour ago, darksabre said: No. They won't. Because if they do, then it would be a tacit admission that they now accept the risk of the ADR procedure. Which they never will. If Jack gets the ADR surgery, his contract will be terminated before he's out of the operating room. The team doctors will never look at him. And his NHL career will be over until his contract with the Sabres is up. If Jack Eichel gets ADR, he will be suspended. He will remain suspended until he proves himself healthy enough to play hockey. The Sabres will never terminate that deal because they would then lose the asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 Just now, LGR4GM said: If Jack Eichel gets ADR, he will be suspended. He will remain suspended until he proves himself healthy enough to play hockey. The Sabres will never terminate that deal because they would then lose the asset. They don't lose the asset. He's still their property until his contract expires. The only way he becomes a UFA is if they waive him. He's still their asset if they void his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 Just now, darksabre said: I don't know what part of this you don't understand, but your logic is terribly flawed. Your lack of a substantive response is telling. Look at this way... the only way KA gets anything close to his desired return for him is if he's healthy. If Jack goes rogue and gets the ADR and it's successful, it benefits the Sabres if their doctors examine him and declare him healthy. What does Buffalo gain by voiding his contract at that point? If the surgery is a success, they have everything to gain if he passes a physical, and nothing if he fails it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, darksabre said: They don't lose the asset. He's still their property until his contract expires. The only way he becomes a UFA is if they waive him. He's still their asset if they void his contract. I am not sure that's true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoath Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) Not sure how true this is.... but.... One thing I heard on a podcast was speculation that if Jack went ahead with adr, against sabres wishes, and then he was deemed unfit this season they could slide this year of his contract. Meaning that next year would be the first of his 5 remaining years and the no movement clause wouldn't kick in until the year after. Anyone know if that's bs or potentially legit? Edited September 28, 2021 by steveoath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 14 minutes ago, steveoath said: Not sure how true this is.... but.... One thing I heard on a podcast was speculation that if Jack went ahead with adr, against sabres wishes, and then he was deemed unfit this season they could slide this year of his contract. Meaning that next year would be the first of his 5 remaining years and the no movement clause wouldn't kick in until the year after. Anyone know if that's bs or potentially legit? I have seen that speculated but cannot confirm if that is how things would work. Someone with more CBA knowledge would need to chime in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 46 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: I am not sure that's true Thats the punishment he gets nothing but his rights are buffalos for 5 more years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 15 minutes ago, Buffalonill said: Thats the punishment he gets nothing but his rights are buffalos for 5 more years Because he would be in breach of contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 1 hour ago, LGR4GM said: That is not accurate. Saying he does not have the authority means he cannot do it. The truth is he will not do it because of the liability it would place on him. Can not versus will not. I understand what you’re saying, but I’m looking at it from a strictly practical viewpoint. IMO, one cannot say a person has full authority to do something and then proceed to give reasons why he can’t. Adams doesn’t have final say as he keeps deferring to the medical professionals that do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 16 minutes ago, K-9 said: I understand what you’re saying, but I’m looking at it from a strictly practical viewpoint. IMO, one cannot say a person has full authority to do something and then proceed to give reasons why he can’t. Adams doesn’t have final say as he keeps deferring to the medical professionals that do. Yes, he literally does have final say. Adams could call Eichel right now and give him the go ahead. He has final say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 16 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Yes, he literally does have final say. Adams could call Eichel right now and give him the go ahead. He has final say. And yet, he can’t do that. For reasons often outlined in this forum. Round and round we go. Best just to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 I learned today that if jack has the fusion he’s looking at several more surgeries once his career is over. The disc replacement should last his lifetime. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted September 29, 2021 Report Share Posted September 29, 2021 2 hours ago, pi2000 said: Your lack of a substantive response is telling. Look at this way... the only way KA gets anything close to his desired return for him is if he's healthy. If Jack goes rogue and gets the ADR and it's successful, it benefits the Sabres if their doctors examine him and declare him healthy. What does Buffalo gain by voiding his contract at that point? If the surgery is a success, they have everything to gain if he passes a physical, and nothing if he fails it. Here’s the thing. It may not become readily apparent the ADR surgery was a success or not. Sure, if the patient survives without any complications, then the surgery was a success. But what happens after a year or two when/if we realize Jack never really regained his former dominant self? We never authorized the surgery, so can we then void it? Or, let’s say he’s playing lights-out, but 1-2 years post-op he sustains a mid-ice hit and the ADR dislodges and his career is done. Can we void it then, or do we still owe Jack 30-40M? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 29, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2021 38 minutes ago, K-9 said: And yet, he can’t do that. For reasons often outlined in this forum. Round and round we go. Best just to move on. You don't understand what the word authority means or you just want to argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted September 29, 2021 Report Share Posted September 29, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, aristocrat said: I learned today that if jack has the fusion he’s looking at several more surgeries once his career is over. The disc replacement should last his lifetime. Not sure where you learned that. Over a 10-year period, only an estimated 25% of ADCF patients will experience degeneration of their adjacent spinal segment and about 2/3 of these patients will require additional surgical intervention. https://journals.lww.com/jbjsjournal/Fulltext/1999/04000/Radiculopathy_and_Myelopathy_at_Segments_Adjacent.9.aspx?__hstc=215929672.82af9c9a98fa600b1bb630f9cde2cb5f.1528502400314.1528502400315.1528502400316.1&__hssc=215929672.1.1528502400317&__hsfp=1773666937 Edited September 29, 2021 by kas23 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 29, 2021 Report Share Posted September 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: You don't understand what the word authority means or you just want to argue. No, I don’t want to argue. Not at all. I fully get where you’re coming from. Let me put it this way, how authoritative is authority if it can’t be freely exercised by one who holds it? KA has to defer to medical experts and legal experts before he can even begin to think of using that authority. So great, KA has the authority. But it is feckless authority. Lets just let this go, ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 29, 2021 Report Share Posted September 29, 2021 3 hours ago, steveoath said: Not sure how true this is.... but.... One thing I heard on a podcast was speculation that if Jack went ahead with adr, against sabres wishes, and then he was deemed unfit this season they could slide this year of his contract. Meaning that next year would be the first of his 5 remaining years and the no movement clause wouldn't kick in until the year after. Anyone know if that's bs or potentially legit? Way back Alexei Yashin tried to wait out his contract and was suspended. The league ruled if he refused to play then he still owed them that year. Ive seen it argued that the same thing would apply to Eichel if he went rogue and got suspended. I do not know if the rule is still in place but I suspect it would be. Whether it would apply, I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted September 29, 2021 Report Share Posted September 29, 2021 6 hours ago, COSabreFan said: If he can’t overrule this, it might help to publicly say so. Something like, “I understand Jacks position, but I don’t have the authority to make it happen. It’s out of my hands.” What would that help? It’s not going to help Eichel get better, and it wouldn’t help make a trade happen. Isnt that sort of throwing the team doctors under the bus? Hasnt he already said that the team’s position is based on the recommendations of their doctors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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