COVID-19

[pi2000]

25 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

The vaccine is just going to prevent deaths. It’s a respiratory disease — it’s not going to stop transmission. If this hasn’t been clear you’ve been wishful thinking and not listening to the unbiased scientists this whole time. 
 

There is a good argument we should have not done anything significant and let it run it’s course and we’d be better off. Just quarantine the elderly. Didn’t help standard medical protocol accelerated people’s deaths early on.

There are countries like Sweden who followed this approach on and they’re doing fine. 

agism

[darksabre]

13 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

I do know all that and appreciate that the vast majority of people out there have had a much worse go of it and it breaks my heart.  I don't think it had to be this bad.

It didn't have to be this bad. Problem is, we've now reached a point where we can fix it and we don't want to. That must say something about us, like, existentially, right? 

[nfreeman]

11 minutes ago, Eleven said:

We're quite sure that we need to listen to what 95%+ of scientists and doctors are saying rather than what facebook, Tik Tok, and certain entertainment personalities are saying, and that 's all.  You know those so-called "sovereign citizens" with their degrees from YouTube Law?  The people recommending against vaccination are pretty much the same.

If that in fact were all, @New Scotland (NS) and I, among others, wouldn't be so put off and disappointed by the tone and statements made by a small, but vocal, group of posters in here.

There has been quite a bit of invective and ad hominem attacking going on in here, including by you, that has gone well beyond noting that the scientific community generally has recommended getting vaccinated.

[pi2000]

2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

It didn't have to be this bad. Problem is, we've now reached a point where we can fix it and we don't want to. That must say something about us, like, existentially, right? 

20 years ago (sans social media)... the vaccination rates would probably be much higher

[darksabre]

2 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

20 years ago (sans social media)... the vaccination rates would probably be much higher

There are so many other factors at play here. The current negative status of public trust in institutions starts at least as far back as Vietnam. 

[Eleven]

6 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

If that in fact were all, @New Scotland (NS) and I, among others, wouldn't be so put off and disappointed by the tone and statements made by a small, but vocal, group of posters in here.

There has been quite a bit of invective and ad hominem attacking going on in here, including by you, that has gone well beyond noting that the scientific community generally has recommended getting vaccinated.

That's because there are two people distributing misinformation that will result in people dying.  Why don't you focus on that and not my tone?

[nfreeman]

2 minutes ago, Eleven said:

That's because there are two people distributing misinformation that will result in people dying.  Why don't you focus on that and not my tone?

If you think someone is distributing misinformation, perhaps a better approach would be to calmly and respectfully point out, in a reasoned and supported manner, why their statements constitute misinformation.

Scorning, lashing out, calling people liars, exulting in people contracting serious illnesses -- in addition to constituting poor behavior, these are tactics that are pretty much guaranteed not only to fail but to harden the other person's stance.

[Eleven]

9 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

If you think someone is distributing misinformation, perhaps a better approach would be to calmly and respectfully point out, in a reasoned and supported manner, why their statements constitute misinformation.

Scorning, lashing out, calling people liars, exulting in people contracting serious illnesses -- in addition to constituting poor behavior, these are tactics that are pretty much guaranteed not only to fail but to harden the other person's stance.

I have.  It didn't work.  So my voice got bolder.

Maybe a moderator could, you know, remove misinformation that will result in people dying or something like that.  I hear it's a popular technique just about everywhere else on the Internet.

EDIT:  Example:  

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Eleven

[nfreeman]

2 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I have.  It didn't work.  So my voice got bolder.

Maybe a moderator could, you know, remove misinformation that will result in people dying or something like that.  I hear it's a popular technique just about everywhere else on the Internet.

Perhaps I missed the respectful and reasoned responses that apparently predated your voice becoming "bolder."

I'm sure a mod would be happy to remove "misinformation that will result in people dying" if and when someone cares to take the time to establish it as such, instead of simply throwing out "bold" statements characterizing it as such.

[darksabre]

1 minute ago, nfreeman said:

Perhaps I missed the respectful and reasoned responses that apparently predated your voice becoming "bolder."

I'm sure a mod would be happy to remove "misinformation that will result in people dying" if and when someone cares to take the time to establish it as such, instead of simply throwing out "bold" statements characterizing it as such.

You're a joke.

[SwampD]

3 hours ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

First off, the only time I've ever actually stepped in for someone was for NS when I was cheering HIS decision, which is sound. He was being unnecessarily bullied and I don't like seeing that at all. 2nd, no, I am not out here agreeing with conspiracies and nonsense; my sister is a huge anti-vaxxer and conspiracist and I tell her where she can shove it all the time. 

The truth is that ever since this pandemic started, there has been a lot of muting of people with sound questions, yes there are many many that are just dumb and we can't do anything to fix that; what I'm dealing with, as I've stated before is the less that ideal bullying of those with actual sound concerns. 

Lastly, please quit questioning my medical knowledge on here, I've been here long enough and know a lot of people here personally, I've built hospitals in 3rd world countries out of my own heart and funds, I do medicine the best I can, but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion and also not standing up against bullying. 

Woody, I just skimmed over every post since this one, because, well it's just pissing into the wind, but nobody was bullying NS for not getting vaccinated. You must have been skimming posts as well. 

I like NS. He's a good dude and really hope that he doesn't think I begrudge him for not getting jabbed (although, rereading some of my posts, I could see how he might think that.) If you don't get vaxxed, look at him on how to do it right, and if i were in his position, i might do the same.

We were riding him because he was passing along information that was patently false. That's all.

[Wyldnwoody44]

7 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Woody, I just skimmed over every post since this one, because, well it's just pissing into the wind, but nobody was bullying NS for not getting vaccinated. You must have been skimming posts as well. 

I like NS. He's a good dude and really hope that he doesn't think I begrudge him for not getting jabbed (although, rereading some of my posts, I could see how he might think that.) If you don't get vaxxed, look at him on how to do it right, and if i were in his position, i might do the same.

We were riding him because he was passing along information that was patently false. That's all.

Fair enough, at this point it has become a blur, there are many here that I enjoy having convos with even in disagreement, but there are many that I would just rather not get involved with. There's so much crap going on in here (plus we all know text is not a great language in general) many people come off as rude or angry when they're not and some are ticked but are passive aggressive in nature. 

Maybe this thread should be moved away from the main forum next to the politics thread that I never visit. I'm here for hockey and a distraction from life. This thread isn't helping. I try to avoid it but it just keeps popping back up to and then I get dragged in 😂😂😂

[nucci]

30 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Fair enough, at this point it has become a blur, there are many here that I enjoy having convos with even in disagreement, but there are many that I would just rather not get involved with. There's so much crap going on in here (plus we all know text is not a great language in general) many people come off as rude or angry when they're not and some are ticked but are passive aggressive in nature. 

Maybe this thread should be moved away from the main forum next to the politics thread that I never visit. I'm here for hockey and a distraction from life. This thread isn't helping. I try to avoid it but it just keeps popping back up to and then I get dragged in 😂😂😂

just when you thought you were out....

Edited August 26, 2021 by nucci

[Sabres Fan in NS]

@SwampD, we're good.  I never though you or anyone else, as far as I recall, attacked me personally for not being vaccinated, although thinking back (I am not prepared to revisit those pages of this thread) some did sort of blame me for being part of the problem.  Anyway, we are good.

This thread is a good reflection of society in general where there are two polar opposite opinions and very little middle ground.  There is no way anyone will convince the other side.  It's really quite sad.  I suppose, I am in that middle ground area, where I am not really anti-vaxx and am fortunate to be in a position to wait it out a bit longer.

[Eleven]

11 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

@SwampD, we're good.  I never though you or anyone else, as far as I recall, attacked me personally for not being vaccinated, although thinking back (I am not prepared to revisit those pages of this thread) some did sort of blame me for being part of the problem.  Anyway, we are good.

This thread is a good reflection of society in general where there are two polar opposite opinions and very little middle ground.  There is no way anyone will convince the other side.  It's really quite sad.  I suppose, I am in that middle ground area, where I am not really anti-vaxx and am fortunate to be in a position to wait it out a bit longer.

For the record, you are NOT one of the posters who are distributing disinformation, as far as I'm concerned.  You're making a personal choice that I wouldn't make, but you're not running around recommending Invermectin or telling people that the vaccine doesn't work.

47 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Perhaps I missed the respectful and reasoned responses that apparently predated your voice becoming "bolder."

I'm sure a mod would be happy to remove "misinformation that will result in people dying" if and when someone cares to take the time to establish it as such, instead of simply throwing out "bold" statements characterizing it as such.

1.  Apparently you did.

2.  It's basic epistemology.  We're entitled to our own opinions; we are not entitled to our own facts.  I'm sure you know exactly what I mean.  Here's what a MUCH larger forum is doing, since I suspect you didn't click the link I provided:

 

This post relates to the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic.

/r/NFL has an established position that commenters who attempt to downplay the pandemic, undermine widespread agreement among the scientific and medical communities about the efficacy of vaccines in preventing death and the spread of COVID-19, or anything which can be interpreted as having the potential to delay someone from receiving the vaccine will be moderated.

You can read more about this here.

While posts by NFL personalities are allowed in certain circumstances, this doesn't mean carte blanche for commenters to spread politicial, scientific or medical mistruths within the comments of those posts.

If you see a see a post or comment with this kind of misinformation, please report it to the moderators using the 'report' function underneath the post or comment, or message us.

From /r/Coronavirus here is a FAQ about the COVID-19 vaccine: Vaccine FAQ.

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Eleven

[Ogre]

2 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Well the one debate from the get go is vaccines that don’t kill only mitigate will accelerate the mutation of the strains and is why they’re getting strong enough now to get kids sick. 

Please don’t tell me that you are suggesting that the vaccines are accelerating the rise of variants. 
 

It’s a well known fact that the Delta variant got its rise in bodies of the millions of unvaccinated people passing the virus around like a hot potato in India. 
 

And where in the US has this Delta variant primarily affecting children? Texas, Alabama, Louisiana? Florida? All areas with a very low vaccination rate.

The vaccine uses mRNA technology if weren’t aware. The mRNA tells your healthy cells to produce the Covid spike protein which triggers your body to produce antibodies so (inner) triumph is ready to go and fight when Covid does invade. (and no it doesn’t do a damn thing to change your DNA as it never enters the nucleus of the cell to be able to do so)

Triumph’s overall viral load is far lower and far less cells are invaded so the virus has less time/space to multiply/mutate. As a benefit, triumph experiences less illness. 
 

The unvaccinated are driving the variants! 
 

If I knew where the ‘get go’ actually were I’d go there and tells those fools to shut the hell up. (I’m guessing it’s down the road from El Dorado, right around the corner from the fountain of youth).

Also as described, the vaccine greatly reduces overall viral load. CDC is pretty clear that the vaccinated can still transmit. They are saying that it is at a far lesser overall viral load. 
 

So infected vaccinated Ogre is transmitting X/cu. liter of air whereas infected unvaccinated Ogre is transmitting Y/cu. liter. The important thing to note is that Y>X by a huge amount.

Also unvaccinated Ogre is up sh!t creek (just down the river from the get  go) while vaccinated Ogre is going to be alright.

[darksabre]

People have been cogently rebuffing medical misinformation in this thread for days and freeman be like 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

13 minutes ago, darksabre said:

People have been cogently rebuffing medical misinformation in this thread for days and freeman be like 

I'm not sure why you are saying this.

@nfreeman is clearly pointing out that this is what he is seeing and he is advocating for a more calm approach.

[Eleven]

Just now, New Scotland (NS) said:

I'm not sure why you are saying this.

@nfreeman is clearly pointing out that this is what he is seeing and he is advocating for a more calm approach.

Freeman is ignoring the fact that people have tried a more calm approach for several weeks and now just want the disinformation campaign to stop.  Stop the lies, stop the invective.  It's pretty simple, really.  

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Freeman is ignoring the fact that people have tried a more calm approach for several weeks and now just want the disinformation campaign to stop.  Stop the lies, stop the invective.  It's pretty simple, really.  

I have done my best to stay out of this thread, so I am not sure what it was like weeks and months ago, but the last few days have been terrible and it's obvious that that is where the issues lie.

I am a bit surprised that this thread has not been locked for a cool down period.  Even more surprised that it has been very active on the main page for so long.  I know that recently several pages where moved to the Politics Club thread, but that is something that the mods should not need to do.  Some time ago the whole COVID thing became not so much about the disease, but all the politics.

[Eleven]

9 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

I have done my best to stay out of this thread, so I am not sure what it was like weeks and months ago, but the last few days have been terrible and it's obvious that that is where the issues lie.

I am a bit surprised that this thread has not been locked for a cool down period.  Even more surprised that it has been very active on the main page for so long.  I know that recently several pages where moved to the Politics Club thread, but that is something that the mods should not need to do.  Some time ago the whole COVID thing became not so much about the disease, but all the politics.

There is nothing political about telling people that a vaccine doesn't work, when it works.  You have your reasons for not taking it, but you haven't said it doesn't work, or that it makes the virus stronger, etc.  Others have.  There is nothing political about such lies.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

9 minutes ago, Eleven said:

There is nothing political about telling people that a vaccine doesn't work, when it works.  You have your reasons for not taking it, but you haven't said it doesn't work, or that it makes the virus stronger, etc.  Others have.  There is nothing political about such lies.

Okay.  I do think that just about everything in life comes down to politics.

Anyway, it's been really very quite in here for the past few hours.  Maybe some are with @Wyldnwoody44 and soking their heads in a cool pool to combat the heat.

We are having just oppressive heat and humidity here.  The whole province is under heat warnings.  We do not get this right here at the coast.  People would escape the heat by comming out here.  We moved here in part for the cooling ocean breezes.  It's not happening now and I imagine we will be having some hurricanes soon too.

[nfreeman]

38 minutes ago, Eleven said:

 

1.  Apparently you did.

2.  It's basic epistemology.  We're entitled to our own opinions; we are not entitled to our own facts.  I'm sure you know exactly what I mean.  Here's what a MUCH larger forum is doing, since I suspect you didn't click the link I provided:

 

 

I don't think anyone disputes that we are not entitled to our own facts.  The question, of course, is where "fact" ends and spin and opinion begin.  For example, it was asserted upthread that "the vaccine is now FDA-approved" -- but only one of the 3 main vaccines has been approved.  It was also asserted upthread that NY's government-issued covid numbers -- and what is more factual than a number? -- were trustworthy, which of course has now been disproven.

Similarly, concerns raised by me and others about this being the first vaccine to use the mRNA technology, and that the vaccines themselves are quite new and have been developed and produced on an unprecedentedly accelerated timeline, have been waved away as silly or fear-mongering (among other, less-pleasant responses).

For that matter, just a couple of posts upthread, you have asserted that "the vaccine works."  It seems awfully early to call that assertion a "fact."  So far, it seems to be working, but it's been generally available in this country for only a few months and worldwide for less time than that.  Maybe those who aren't ready to accord this vaccine the same reliability and safety as the polio vaccine -- which wasn't mandated for something like 25 years after its introduction, btw -- aren't "liars" but rather just want to see some more data before getting comfortable that it works.

As for knowing exactly what you mean -- I expect you know exactly what I mean as well.  For example, one of the few actual medical professionals here, who knows substantially more about this than you or I do, has been met with hostility and repeatedly insulted for giving his views on the virus and the vaccine.

 

[Ogre]

18 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Some time ago the whole COVID thing became not so much about the disease, but all the politics.

You’re one of the most empathetic posters on here so I know you’ll smell what I’m cooking here.

Your isolation has buffered you from the worst of Covid. It’s tearing families and friendships apart. 
 

Try spending your day on a crowded construction site with unsanitary conditions and the risk the hazards of the trade bring to begin with. Now add a deadly, highly contagious disease to the burden. 
 

Now to that burden you should add the threat that far less than half of the coughing, sneezing, spitting fools are vaccinated.

Add the whining when a customer mandates a mask, when a contractor institutes Covid protocols. The arguments over microchips and changed DNA and government conspiracies.

All of this after we have watched men our age that we know well suffer for weeks on ventilators. A few of them have even died and still with the nonsense!

 There’s no doubt in my mind that I will watch even more of them suffer and die from Delta and I don’t quite know how to handle it.

Its almost too much but then go home and watch your wife’s mental health suffer because the non profit she works and lives for is hanging by a thread because of outbreak after outbreak. 
 

Something needs to give or else we’re all going to NS. We’ll try not to pop your safety bubble but it’s going to be tough buddy.
 

[drnkirishone]

7 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

 

I don't think anyone disputes that we are not entitled to our own facts.  The question, of course, is where "fact" ends and spin and opinion begin.  For example, it was asserted upthread that "the vaccine is now FDA-approved" -- but only one of the 3 main vaccines has been approved.  It was also asserted upthread that NY's government-issued covid numbers -- and what is more factual than a number? -- were trustworthy, which of course has now been disproven.

Similarly, concerns raised by me and others about this being the first vaccine to use the mRNA technology, and that the vaccines themselves are quite new and have been developed and produced on an unprecedentedly accelerated timeline, have been waved away as silly or fear-mongering (among other, less-pleasant responses).

For that matter, just a couple of posts upthread, you have asserted that "the vaccine works."  It seems awfully early to call that assertion a "fact."  So far, it seems to be working, but it's been generally available in this country for only a few months and worldwide for less time than that.  Maybe those who aren't ready to accord this vaccine the same reliability and safety as the polio vaccine -- which wasn't mandated for something like 25 years after its introduction, btw -- aren't "liars" but rather just want to see some more data before getting comfortable that it works.

As for knowing exactly what you mean -- I expect you know exactly what I mean as well.  For example, one of the few actual medical professionals here, who knows substantially more about this than you or I do, has been met with hostility and repeatedly insulted for giving his views on the virus and the vaccine.

 

the same individual that at the start of the pandemic downplayed the severity of it? I am unsurprised by the stance you are taking.