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sweetlou

Reinhart, sign him or trade him?

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10 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

What makes no sense is paying a guy 7-8m/yr because he puts up 65pts next to Eichel.

How many points would he have playing with Johansson?  45-50 at most?  That's what I would base his contract on.

Eichel is on pace for 110 points, Reinhart only on pace for just better than half that, playing on the same line just isn't good enough.

IF he's asking for +6m then I'm looking to move him.  A true sniper would put up 50g on Eichels wing... and thats what playoff teams have.  Eichel needs his Mogilny.

Do better, don't settle.

Just so we are all clear. If Sam Reinhart requests more than 6mil in money going forward you would not sign him? You would move on? You would let him walk free. Is this correct?

Edited by LGR4GM

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14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Just so we are all clear. If Sam Reinhart requests more than 6mil in money going forward you would not sign him? You would move on? You would let him walk free. Is this correct?

@pi2000 can certainly speak for himself, but I interpreted him to mean that he would trade Reino (not let him leave in FA for nothing) rather than give him a big contract.

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42 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

How many points would he have playing with Johansson?  45-50 at most?  That's what I would base his contract on.

We can check and see  if this has merit or if you're just making stuff up - in the last 3 seasons, Reinhart has spent 38% of his ES time away from Eichel. 

He has 25 goals and 67 points with Eichel and 20 goals and 21 assists without him. Prorating these rates out for a full season, we would have: 

With Eichel: 82 games, ~16 even strength goals, ~42 even strength points
Without Eichel: 82 games, ~21 even strength goals, ~43 even strength points

This includes the time he spent centering Griffith and Moulson in 2017-18, as well as his stretches with last year's Sobotka and Sheary/Rodrigues. So I don't really buy your random guessing. 

It makes sense that his assists spike with a guy like Jack and his shot (as well as Olofsson/Skinner when he's up there) but when he's NOT with Jack his linemates have generally been horrendous, aside from stints with ROR in the first year of this analysis (which was his worst ES year of the 3 by FAR, and so doesn't contribute heavily). 

These statistics indicate why we were so anxious to see Reinhart drive his own line in the first place, and the fact that I'm seeing the conclusion that he can't being drawn from the simple fact that our coaches don't DO it rather than actually seeing what happens, I am inclined to ignore the rest of what the people saying this have to say on the subject

By the way, Sam averages ~15-20 PP points per season in the last 3, and there's no need to remove Eichel from the equation there, so that gives us the ~60 point player we see in that span. And he's gotten better at piling up points every season of his career and will approach 70 this one

Edited by Randall Flagg
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I actually don't even want Reinhart to drive his own line. I want to build a second line with 3 Reinhart-tier players that all complement each other. We shouldn't have to put one of our 4 good forwards with trash year after year

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8 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I actually don't even want Reinhart to drive his own line. I want to build a second line with 3 Reinhart-tier players that all complement each other. We shouldn't have to put one of our 4 good forwards with trash year after year

Wanting 3 more 60 point players is settling... he said sarcastically. 

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I really do not get the Reinart hate going on here: Granted Sam was a #2 pick overall, and with picks that high, you are hoping for a 70+ point player minimum and a possible franchise guy. We get that Sam isn't that guy, but 60+ point players don't grow on trees.

Sam is a clear top 6 forward, something that has been an issue for Buffalo for many years now.

There are problems on this roster for the now and going forward. in no way do I feel Sam is a part of the problem. He can easily be part of the solution.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

What makes no sense is paying a guy 7-8m/yr because he puts up 65pts next to Eichel.

How many points would he have playing with Johansson?  45-50 at most?  That's what I would base his contract on.

Eichel is on pace for 110 points, Reinhart only on pace for just better than half that, playing on the same line just isn't good enough.

IF he's asking for +6m then I'm looking to move him.  A true sniper would put up 50g on Eichels wing... and thats what playoff teams have.  Eichel needs his Mogilny.

Do better, don't settle.

So, in Pi World, neither Skinner not Olofsson is a "sniper?". Interesting.

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58 minutes ago, Taro T said:

So, in Pi World, neither Skinner not Olofsson is a "sniper?". Interesting.

Look.. it's important that you get 50 goals... that's a requirement.  So much so that the only true snipers in the league since 2010 are:

Ovechkin x5
Stamkos x2
Crosby - x1
Perry - x1
Malkin - x1
Draisaitl - x1

Those guys grow on trees.. you can get them anywhere.  🙂

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2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Jack's gonna enter that list this season

Cool.. so he's good enough to score 50 and set up another guy to score 50...  🙂

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6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Just so we are all clear. If Sam Reinhart requests more than 6mil in money going forward you would not sign him? You would move on? You would let him walk free. Is this correct?

Myself I wouldn't let him walk for free, but I do have some doubts about whether or not I want him as one of the top 5 highest players on my team.

I really, REALLY, really, really want to see him get some prolonged ice time on a line without Eichel though before I make that decision. At least 10 games, closer to 20 games would be better.

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6 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

We can check and see  if this has merit or if you're just making stuff up - in the last 3 seasons, Reinhart has spent 38% of his ES time away from Eichel. 

He has 25 goals and 67 points with Eichel and 20 goals and 21 assists without him. Prorating these rates out for a full season, we would have: 

With Eichel: 82 games, ~16 even strength goals, ~42 even strength points
Without Eichel: 82 games, ~21 even strength goals, ~43 even strength points

This includes the time he spent centering Griffith and Moulson in 2017-18, as well as his stretches with last year's Sobotka and Sheary/Rodrigues. So I don't really buy your random guessing. 

It makes sense that his assists spike with a guy like Jack and his shot (as well as Olofsson/Skinner when he's up there) but when he's NOT with Jack his linemates have generally been horrendous, aside from stints with ROR in the first year of this analysis (which was his worst ES year of the 3 by FAR, and so doesn't contribute heavily). 

These statistics indicate why we were so anxious to see Reinhart drive his own line in the first place, and the fact that I'm seeing the conclusion that he can't being drawn from the simple fact that our coaches don't DO it rather than actually seeing what happens, I am inclined to ignore the rest of what the people saying this have to say on the subject

By the way, Sam averages ~15-20 PP points per season in the last 3, and there's no need to remove Eichel from the equation there, so that gives us the ~60 point player we see in that span. And he's gotten better at piling up points every season of his career and will approach 70 this one

This is wonderful.

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42 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Myself I wouldn't let him walk for free, but I do have some doubts about whether or not I want him as one of the top 5 highest players on my team.

I really, REALLY, really, really want to see him get some prolonged ice time on a line without Eichel though before I make that decision. At least 10 games, closer to 20 games would be better.

Yep. They did the same thing to Skinner last season before signing him to a long term big money big cap hit contract ...

 

 

🤔

 

Edited by Zamboni

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Sam’s ears must have been burning.  He seems to have found himself lately or is it just the 2nd half thing

Edited by GASabresIUFAN
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I'm indifferent to Reinhart to be honest. If he stays, great. If he's moved, I'm equally as fine with it. I don't perceive him as irreplaceable at this time, but he is a top 2 line winger worthy of keeping. Just not for anything over 6.5/7 a season.

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I’ve noticed he has been scoring with his one timers, something he hadn’t don’t much of in first few years in the league.  Don’t have the fancy stars to back it up but certainly seems to have a much improved shot. 

 

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A couple simple Reinhart stats worth noting:

1. He is currently ranked 49th in the NHL for points.

2. He is currently ranked 3rd in the 2014 NHL draft class for career points (behind Draisatl and Pastrnak).

So no, he's not in the untouchable talent tier of Eichel and Dahlin. But he's clearly a top line NHL forward. There are technically only 93 of these types of players, and they don't often become available through unrestricted free agency or even through the trade market. You pay him his market value and only trade him in an obviously favorable deal. No more O'Reilly trades, JNot!!

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Sam Reinhart. I believe he has been called lazy, a passenger, weak, and if we keep him we are settling. All things which I quite frankly think are bull##it. But anyways

https://theathletic.com/1550914/2020/01/21/evaluating-sam-reinharts-value-as-he-approaches-restricted-free-agency/

Quote

Sabres coach Ralph Krueger backed up that compliment.

“His conditioning is among the top of our team,” Krueger said. “He works as hard as anybody on his body and his overall professional package, which is an example for everybody.”

“What we love about Sam is how he’s embraced the necessity of playing without the puck and staying above it when the others are below it, tracking back hard and working with our D if called upon, being low if Jack’s high in the D-zone,” the coach said. “All those things, Jack and Sam are an amazing duo. Sam’s offense is growing out of that defense, which is nice for us to see.”

 

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From the same article:

The 175-game mark on the above chart is Jan. 1, 2018, when Reinhart scored at the Winter Classic and really kickstarted his career. Since that day, he’s 40th among forwards in points (all stats are through Jan. 19). There are significant players surrounding him.

 

1118sam.thumb.jpg.b9fed6cef69b2a13ac9505b5d87dc47c.jpg

Monahan $6.3 over 7 starting in 2016

Stone $9.5 over 8 in 2019

Connor $7.1 over 7 in 2019

Duchene $8 over 7 in 2019

Guentzel $6 over 5 in 2019

Voracek $8.2 over 8 in 2016

Couture $8 over 8 in 2019

Radulov $6.2 over 5 in 2017

Tkachuk $7 million over 3 in 2019

(Barzal's entry-level deal expires this summer)

 

The article states the 50th highest-paid forward in the league right now makes $6.7 million

 

Like it or not, these are his peers Sabrespace.

Good luck signing him to that $6 million ceiling this summer. Good luck finding an upgrade.

Edited by dudacek
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31 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Good luck signing him to that $6 million ceiling this summer. Good luck finding an upgrade.

If he signs for 6+ years at anything under $7M, I think that’s an absolute bargain.  

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1 hour ago, dudacek said:

From the same article:

The 175-game mark on the above chart is Jan. 1, 2018, when Reinhart scored at the Winter Classic and really kickstarted his career. Since that day, he’s 40th among forwards in points (all stats are through Jan. 19). There are significant players surrounding him.

 

1118sam.thumb.jpg.b9fed6cef69b2a13ac9505b5d87dc47c.jpg

Monahan $6.3 over 7 starting in 2016

Stone $9.5 over 8 in 2019

Connor $7.1 over 7 in 2019

Duchene $8 over 7 in 2019

Guentzel $6 over 5 in 2019

Voracek $8.2 over 8 in 2016

Couture $8 over 8 in 2019

Radulov $6.2 over 5 in 2017

Tkachuk $7 million over 3 in 2019

(Barzal's entry-level deal expires this summer)

 

The article states the 50th highest-paid forward in the league right now makes $6.7 million

 

Like it or not, these are his peers Sabrespace.

Good luck signing him to that $6 million ceiling this summer. Good luck finding an upgrade.

 

40th?  Do better.

Any of those players would out produce him alongside Eichel, and it wouldn't even be close.

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6 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

 

40th?  Do better.

Any of those players would out produce him alongside Eichel, and it wouldn't even be close.

Wow didn't know you were Dr Strange. Maybe you should use that power to see all possible alternatives for something useful like the draft. 

giphy.gif

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20 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

40th?  Do better.

Any of those players would out produce him alongside Eichel, and it wouldn't even be close.

giphy.gif

Edited by Doohickie

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1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

giphy.gif

Please stop with the cyberbullying.   I've developed an extreme sensitivity to that type of stuff, I'm fragile, handle with care plz thanks.

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