Center vs. Winger

[7+6=13]

Not to beat a dead horse but I've admitted that I'm still learning about hockey.  I played street hockey everyday in the winter growing up in Buffalo but never played organized hockey.  Grew up loving the Sabres but never really totally understood hockey.  I've learned a ton from you guys, so wanted to ask serious questions that I don't know the answers to.  

 

What are a centers responsibilities vs a wingers?  I heard Liger say one time that contrary to what most people think -  a center doesn't mean he plays in the middle.  Can you help me better understand?

 

What skills make a center a center vs a winger?  In other words what does a player need in order to play there?

 

Why are centers hard to find?  I was listening to WGR today and Simon was saying Darcy once said, centers don't just fall out of trees.  This question is related to the second, but what makes them so rare?

 

Please feel free to go beyond the questions I've posed to help me.  I appreciate it.

Edited April 12, 2018 by 7+6=13

[North Buffalo]

Centers are more responsible for going 200 feet helping D in front of the net, carrying the puck and having offensive prowess. Wingers tend to cover the points and rarely are responsible for going below the face off circle on D. On offense more responsible for going into corners digging out puck on Offense though Centers do it all and need to be your best skaters plus they take the majority of faceoffs. Wingers need to be able to be your best shots on offense. Some of the differences.

[Taro T]

In addition to taking faceoffs, centers typically skate more than wingers. Simplistically: They have more defensive responsibility as they are the forward that plays lower in the zone helping the D. The wings responibility is to cover the D and the high slot.

 

On the forecheck, the forwards become interchangeable with F1 attacking the puck carrier, F2 providing support tight, & F3 staying higher in the zone. Depending on where the puck goes, the responsibility of each forward can morph quickly.

 

They all then cycle around in the zone when they have the puck.

 

Centers traditionally are the best passer on their line.

 

Hopefully that isn't too simplistic.

[Eleven]

Can I add that centers need to be able to backskate better than wings?  Yes, I know that in the NHL they all can backskate perfectly, but in a local league, maybe not so much.

[bunomatic]

I think what makes centers rare is the fact that all through the development leagues right up to the N.H.L. there are two wingers for every center or 8 wingers to 4 centers on a typical team so theres just more wingers being developed. Call me Cpt. Obvious. Also centers can usually move to wing quite easily while its generally harder for a winger to move to center. 

[North Buffalo]

I think what makes centers rare is the fact that all through the development leagues right up to the N.H.L. there are two wingers for every center or 8 wingers to 4 centers on a typical team so theres just more wingers being developed. Call me Cpt. Obvious. Also centers can usually move to wing quite easily while its generally harder for a winger to move to center.

 

Generally because a center has responsibilities and tend to see the ice better. Passing is one example of this, backcheck on D is is another.

[LTS]

I might get lost writing this response but here goes.

 

The first thing you should do is not associate a player with a position so much as understand what the position means relative to the play on the ice.  What I mean is that while a player may line up at center on the face-off they may also NOT always have the center responsibilities during the shift and their responsibilities may change based on the situation of the game.  I will explain this later.

 

The center, generally speaking, is a defensive zone position that indicates the player who acts as the 3rd defender.  Wingers are generally tasked with covering the top 50-60% of the defensive zone (basically, cover the point men and close off the cross zone pass).  The centers primary responsibility is to roam around the defensive zone acting as the second body to the primary defender.  If the puck is in the LD zone, the C backs the left D, looking to cause a turnover.  Same is true with RD, RW, LW.  From a defensive zone responsibility aspect, the center is your most important person because if they cannot keep up with the play, cannot read the play, there will be openings all over the place.

 

In the offensive zone it works a lot like Taro said (especially these days).  It USED to be you wanted your C carrying the puck, dishing it off, all that crap.  However, the pace of play indicates that you switch to a F1/F2/F3 scenario (without the puck).  The F1 (first player in) creates the pressure.  F2 will move in accordance to the forechecking scheme (1-2-2, 2-1-2, etc.).  F3 follows suit.  When the offense controls the puck in the offensive zone then it really becomes a game of cycle, find the open spot, and move the puck.  Generally speaking you will see the players stay within a certain area, however a puck carrier has to move to avoid the defense and the other players adjust as well so it can end up a free for all with each player eventually seeking to return to their general defensive position.  This either happens while retaining puck control or almost immediately after the puck is turned over and the play changes direction.  Players will communicate and adjust as they back check and eventually get into their defensive positions.

 

The one overriding piece of this is when a coach sets a certain directive for a player.  In that case the remaining players adjust their responsibilities and so what you normally see a C or a winger do might deviate from the norm.  It is not uncommon for Housley to have Eichel move up to the winger spot and cycle with a winger in the hopes that his best player gets the puck and can carry it up ice.  Earlier in the year there when Fasching was called up he was tasked with being in front of the net in the offensive zone.  What you'll notice is that even during plays where it would see he SHOULD go get the puck, he would not because his job was to cause problems in front of the net.  The remaining players, knowing this, will adjust their play to go get the puck.  In theory this works because the defending team risks leaving a man open in front of their net.  So, if they assign someone to Fasching it becomes a 4 on 4 in the rest of the zone.

 

Love that you ask the questions... some of us really love to talk about the game of hockey.  :)

[PASabreFan]

Why did Sam become a winger?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Why did Sam become a winger?

Because centre is the hardest position to play in the NHL and even if you have played at centre throughout your junior career you may not make it as one in the NHL.

[PASabreFan]

Because centre is the hardest position to play in the NHL and even if you have played at centre throughout your junior career you may not make it as one in the NHL.

Why not wingre?

 

Yup, Imma be all up in N S' grille all day.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Why not wingre?

 

Yup, Imma be all up in N S' grille all day.

:w00t:

[MattPie]

A simple way to say it is the D couver the Wingres and vice vresa, and the centres cover each outher. Even if that's not strictly true, in the defencive zone one of the forwards has to account for the 3rd forward while the D have the outher two.

 

* Note I used Canadian spelling in the post

Edited April 12, 2018 by MattiPaj

[dudacek]

You spelled covre wrong.

[That Aud Smell]

I have a long, ongoing debate with a couple of guys over whether and to what extent you want to organize your team around an elite centre versus an elite winger.

 

I always point to Crosby -v- Ovechkin as a case in point as to why centres are more important. (In fairness, that was Crosby+Malkin -v- Ovechkin.)

 

Laine-Matthews is a more recent case study, I think.

 

Oh, and the fact that Taylor Hall is up for MVP consideration has muddied the waters as well.

[7+6=13]

Thanks so much for the responses - they were most helpful.  LTS, really appreciate you taking that much time.

 

I'm looking forward to watching games with a better understanding of what to look for.  

 

Shout out to the long time posters - there's likely more people like me that depend on you for information than you think.  Keep it up.  

[Taro T]

I might get lost writing this response but here goes.

 

The first thing you should do is not associate a player with a position so much as understand what the position means relative to the play on the ice.  What I mean is that while a player may line up at center on the face-off they may also NOT always have the center responsibilities during the shift and their responsibilities may change based on the situation of the game.  I will explain this later.

 

The center, generally speaking, is a defensive zone position that indicates the player who acts as the 3rd defender.  Wingers are generally tasked with covering the top 50-60% of the defensive zone (basically, cover the point men and close off the cross zone pass).  The centers primary responsibility is to roam around the defensive zone acting as the second body to the primary defender.  If the puck is in the LD zone, the C backs the left D, looking to cause a turnover.  Same is true with RD, RW, LW.  From a defensive zone responsibility aspect, the center is your most important person because if they cannot keep up with the play, cannot read the play, there will be openings all over the place.

 

In the offensive zone it works a lot like Taro said (especially these days).  It USED to be you wanted your C carrying the puck, dishing it off, all that crap.  However, the pace of play indicates that you switch to a F1/F2/F3 scenario (without the puck).  The F1 (first player in) creates the pressure.  F2 will move in accordance to the forechecking scheme (1-2-2, 2-1-2, etc.).  F3 follows suit.  When the offense controls the puck in the offensive zone then it really becomes a game of cycle, find the open spot, and move the puck.  Generally speaking you will see the players stay within a certain area, however a puck carrier has to move to avoid the defense and the other players adjust as well so it can end up a free for all with each player eventually seeking to return to their general defensive position.  This either happens while retaining puck control or almost immediately after the puck is turned over and the play changes direction.  Players will communicate and adjust as they back check and eventually get into their defensive positions.

 

The one overriding piece of this is when a coach sets a certain directive for a player.  In that case the remaining players adjust their responsibilities and so what you normally see a C or a winger do might deviate from the norm.  It is not uncommon for Housley to have Eichel move up to the winger spot and cycle with a winger in the hopes that his best player gets the puck and can carry it up ice.  Earlier in the year there when Fasching was called up he was tasked with being in front of the net in the offensive zone.  What you'll notice is that even during plays where it would see he SHOULD go get the puck, he would not because his job was to cause problems in front of the net.  The remaining players, knowing this, will adjust their play to go get the puck.  In theory this works because the defending team risks leaving a man open in front of their net.  So, if they assign someone to Fasching it becomes a 4 on 4 in the rest of the zone.

 

Love that you ask the questions... some of us really love to talk about the game of hockey.  :)

And to build off that excellent description, when the puck transitions back into the defensive zone the 1st forward back (if it isn't the C) will typically assume the C's role until there is an opportunity for them to switch.

 

And the stronger your C & D are in defensive zone coverage the more your W's can cheat & cover the other D to the exclusion of watching for a forward coming open in the high slot.

 

And from all of this you can get into far greater nuance of how you are creating (or taking away when defending) time & space. And regardless of where the puck is, the C is rarely stationary for long. Typically the D don't skate as much as the W's in the offensive zone & the W's don't skate as much as the D in the defensive zone, but the C usually is in near constant motion regardless of where the puck is at 5v5.

[North Buffalo]

I have a long, ongoing debate with a couple of guys over whether and to what extent you want to organize your team around an elite centre versus an elite winger.

 

I always point to Crosby -v- Ovechkin as a case in point as to why centres are more important. (In fairness, that was Crosby+Malkin -v- Ovechkin.)

 

Laine-Matthews is a more recent case study, I think.

 

Oh, and the fact that Taylor Hall is up for MVP consideration has muddied the waters as well.

Hall is an anomoly and plays a hybrid winger center because he can skate as well as most centers and sees the ice so well which is why most centers can play wing but wingers tend to be more myopic in their play and rigid with their positioning.

[LTS]

From a youth coaching perspective I'll put it this way as well.

 

 

My best skaters end up at D first, then C, then wing.

My worst skaters end up at wing.. always.

 

My lowest hockey IQ ends up at wing even if they are great skaters.

 

Wingers are the bass players of hockey?  ;)

[Sabel79]

And the stronger your C & D are in defensive zone coverage the more your W's can cheat & cover the other D to the exclusion of watching for a forward coming open in the high slot.

And from all of this you can get into far greater nuance of how you are creating (or taking away when defending) time & space. And regardless of where the puck is, the C is rarely stationary for long.

Which is why, when your centers are terrible or don't do defense, much like some teams I can name, your wings either end up A. getting sucked deeper into the zone, thus making zone exits / transition near impossible to do well when you do get hold of the puck or B. lotsa goals against from unmarked dudes in the slot or C. an infuriating combination of both.

 

This is exactly why two consecutive coaches have damn near killed ROR every season he's been a Sabre.

[7+6=13]

From a youth coaching perspective I'll put it this way as well.

 

 

My best skaters end up at D first, then C, then wing.

My worst skaters end up at wing.. always.

 

My lowest hockey IQ ends up at wing even if they are great skaters.

 

Wingers are the bass players of hockey?  ;)

 

I like that analogy.  

[SwampD]

From a youth coaching perspective I'll put it this way as well.

 

 

My best skaters end up at D first, then C, then wing.

My worst skaters end up at wing.. always.

 

My lowest hockey IQ ends up at wing even if they are great skaters.

 

Wingers are the bass players of hockey?  ;)

 

I like that analogy.  

You are both dead to me.

[That Aud Smell]

Wingers are the bass players of hockey?  ;)

 

Look at the left-wing lock. There's sadness in that left-wing lock.

 

[PASabreFan]

I haven't thought about this much, but before a big offensive zone faceoff, maybe down a goal late and no timeout left, does the center look to the bench and receive a signal for a set play? In that sense, can the center be thought of in quarterback terms? He has to communicate well and quickly with his teammates before most if not all draws. And might even have to have the ability to "draw a play in the dirt." You need ton of that hockey IQ to play this position.

[Doohickie]

I haven't thought about this much, but before a big offensive zone faceoff, maybe down a goal late and no timeout left, does the center look to the bench and receive a signal for a set play? In that sense, can the center be thought of in quarterback terms? He has to communicate well and quickly with his teammates before most if not all draws. And might even have to have the ability to "draw a play in the dirt." You need ton of that hockey IQ to play this position.

 

A lot of the time you'll see a center talk to other players prior to the faceoff to let them know which way he plans to pull the puck on the draw, so the players know which way to go upon faceoff.  If you watch Jack, he will occasionally push the puck forward.  For a Dzone faceoff it's an effort to start a quick break rush if he can catch the opposing Dmen napping; in the Ozone it can push the puck down below the goal line where Jack can then pass it back to the point or to the slot (or even go directly on goal himself).  It's rare but he does it once in a while.

[LTS]

I haven't thought about this much, but before a big offensive zone faceoff, maybe down a goal late and no timeout left, does the center look to the bench and receive a signal for a set play? In that sense, can the center be thought of in quarterback terms? He has to communicate well and quickly with his teammates before most if not all draws. And might even have to have the ability to "draw a play in the dirt." You need ton of that hockey IQ to play this position.

 

On every face-off the center should be the one deciding where he will attempt to win the draw and communicate it to his teammates.  This is why they study the habits of those they will go up against.  

 

As far as set plays.. they may communicate a few during a timeout but after that I would think that the players themselves are picking what they want to do from a pool of things they have worked on.  It's usually one or two that are in charge of determining the play and they know who it is. My guess is that they'll mostly be in agreement (this isn't football with a huge playbook) based on seeing what the other team is doing from their lineup perspective.

 

In almost all cases the set play will be to get the puck to Jack (in the Sabres case).  If you have a few back to back to back face-offs they'll likely switch it up because the other team will shade toward Jack.  Kind of like a catcher calling pitches for the pitcher.