Harrington is right! - Really

[TrueBlueGED]

Uh, yeah, no.

 

Friedman said he doesn't think Harrington is a sexist because he's been nice to him and seen him be nice to others. What percentage of hockey beat writers are men? And the very notion that being nice in one context precludes being a douche in another is hilarious. I've had plenty of people I've known who are great to their friends/family/colleagues while simultaneously holding extremely discriminatory viewpoints. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

It's precisely what he said.

 

Basically, yes, that is what he said.

[TrueBlueGED]

What horsesh1t this is.

 

Neither you nor I have any earthly idea of how thin the edge of the razor is (and how brutally sharp it is) that women must stand upon (with grace! with poise! with resolve! but not too much! hey - resting b1tch face! Black Widow!) in order to make it, be respected in a wide variety of businesses and industries.

 

Honestly.

 

And speaking again of Bucky, know what I find interesting? Some of his worst content regarding Kim appears to have been taken down from TBN servers. I can't find it anywhere. It was published in September 2014. I remember the key words he used: She's a controlling personality. Some Sabres brass had become wary of her. She's not as sweet as she seems.

 

I can't find that article on any TBN platform. It pops up being quoted on a few blogs after a Google search, with hyperlinks that yield error messages. I reckon it's been scrubbed from TBN archives, in recognition of how shameful it was to have published it.

 

I'm not here to lionize my former secret girlfriend Kim Pegula. But I cannot abide the sexist, borderline misogynistic manner in which she's being questioned and criticized by some.

 

I've never been happier that I "acquire" TBN content I want to read rather than pay for it. 

[PASabreFan]

Basically, yes, that is what he said.

No. He thinks Mike isn't sexist because 1. He's known him a long time. and 2. He thinks Mike's problem with Kim being president is that she's the owner, not that she's a woman. The nice business was kind of an aside: Mike can be brusque and rub people the wrong way, but he's always been nice to me.

[That Aud Smell]

Lol, the defence of Harrington.

 

Friedman said he’s known Mike a long time, doesn’t think he’s sexist, wouldn’t be friendly with him if he thought he was.

 

Swing and a miss, Elliotte (sp?).

[Brawndo]

Friedman said this on Toronto Radio this AM from Chris Nichols

 

Friedman was then asked to weigh into the Sabres’ management shakeup with Kim Pegula stepping in as president, where “it doesn’t matter that she’s a woman, it just matters that she’s kind of inheriting the job like Chris Ilitch.”

 

“Here’s the thing I have with Kim Pegula, and you have to be careful because one slipped word here and you’re in big trouble,” began Friedman. “The Pegulas, when they took over the team, I was at that media conference and people were ecstatic. They didn’t like the previous owner, Golisano; they felt he didn’t spend money, and the Pegulas said they were going to spend money and did.

 

“And their solution to a lot of things has been to throw money at it. And I think they mean very well. I think Terry and Kim Pegula do honestly want to do well for the people of Buffalo. They’ve tried a lot of things, and they’ve thrown a lot of money at things for both the Bills and the Sabres. It just hasn’t worked. And I think they’re learning now that you have to go slow.

 

“You have to be like the Jets in a lot of ways. They took their beating locally. People were upset when Kevin Cheveldayoff and Paul Maurice got contract extensions earlier this year, but now you’re realizing that like the turtle and the hare, slow and steady wins the race.

 

“I just think that my issue with Kim Pegula as president is does she recognize that. Does she understand that it’s got to be slow and steady because their leadership has been rush, rush, rush. And I just hope that she recognizes that it’s got be that way, because if she doesn’t then it’s going to be a problem. If she understands that we’re going to have to do things a little bit differently and there’s still going to be a bit more pain even though they got Dahlin, then I think it’s going to be fine.

 

“I just hope she understands that the way they’ve done it in the past, it’s not going to work anymore.”

 

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

No. He thinks Mike isn't sexist because 1. He's known him a long time. and 2. He thinks Mike's problem with Kim being president is that she's the owner, not that she's a woman. The nice business was kind of an aside: Mike can be brusque and rub people the wrong way, but he's always been nice to me.

 

There was a lot of tap dancing around in what Elliot said.  Men rarely come straight out and call another man sexist.

 

Bottom line ... he has known Harrington a long time and has followed him on Twitter for a long time.  He would not have unfollowed Mike on Twitter just because he is kind of nasty at times.  If that was the case Elliot would have done it long ago.

[sabills]

What horsesh1t this is.

 

Neither you nor I have any earthly idea of how thin the edge of the razor is (and how brutally sharp it is) that women must stand upon (with grace! with poise! with resolve! but not too much! hey - resting b1tch face! Black Widow!) in order to make it, be respected in a wide variety of businesses and industries.

 

Honestly.

 

And speaking again of Bucky, know what I find interesting? Some of his worst content regarding Kim appears to have been taken down from TBN servers. I can't find it anywhere. It was published in September 2014. I remember the key words he used: She's a controlling personality. Some Sabres brass had become wary of her. She's not as sweet as she seems.

 

I can't find that article on any TBN platform. It pops up being quoted on a few blogs after a Google search, with hyperlinks that yield error messages. I reckon it's been scrubbed from TBN archives, in recognition of how shameful it was to have published it.

 

I'm not here to lionize my former secret girlfriend Kim Pegula. But I cannot abide the sexist, borderline misogynistic manner in which she's being questioned and criticized by some.

 

A-g0ddammed-men, Aud.

[WildCard]

"...you have to be real careful because one slipped word here and you're in huge trouble" :lol:

[sabills]

I hope Kim knocks this out of the park.

[TrueBlueGED]

Friedman said this on Toronto Radio this AM from Chris Nichols

 

 

Oh FFS. 

 

1) "And I think they're learning now that you have to go slow."

2) Then consecutive mentions of hoping that Kim "gets it." 

 

Either Friedman isn't capable of chaining coherent thoughts together or what he meant in #1 was he believed only Terry was learning.

[Randall Flagg]

I'm sorry but I cannot fathom having a problem with what Friedmann said there

 

I think some of y'all are crazy

 

I stopped reading the Brandon thread, but presumably most of the Kim discussion took place in the Kim thread, which was a scathing 2 pages long after nearly 48 hours

[That Aud Smell]

Friedman said this on Toronto Radio this AM from Chris Nichols

 

I think that's fair. I also think, maybe, that the rush-rush-rush was more Terry-driven, and that Kim may be more inclined to do things deliberately. Just a hunch.

 

I hope Kim knocks this out of the park.

 

As do I.

 

And I don't have illusions about her being some paragon of whatever. I've made clear that I think her creative instincts are ... largely uninspiring. But if she can hire and then enable competent hockey people to do their thing, she'll have done 85% of the job, at least.

[TrueBlueGED]

I'm sorry but I cannot fathom having a problem with what Friedmann said there

 

I think some of y'all are crazy

 

I stopped reading the Brandon thread, but presumably most of the Kim discussion took place in the Kim thread, which was a scathing 2 pages long after nearly 48 hours

 

When talking jointly about the owners, he thinks they're learning. When talking about the female owner, he hopes she's learning. That's not a meaningless difference in language.

[Randall Flagg]

When talking jointly about the owners, he thinks they're learning. When talking about the female owner, he hopes she's learning. That's not a meaningless difference in language.

Separated by two paragraphs of talking/writing? I think if he tried that hard that THAT would be insulting and degrading to women

[That Aud Smell]

Last thing for a bit. It was really something to me when my youngest daughter wandered through the kitchen and said, in a sort of statement/question way:

 

"Wait. So Mrs. Pegula is in charge of the Bills and Sabres now?"

 

I answered that she was taking over as president, yes, and that presumably she and her husband would continue to work together.

 

"But ... she's, like, the presidents of both teams?"

 

"Yes."

 

"And presidents are, like, in charge, right?"

 

"Yes."

 

[pause]

[child starts to walk away]

[at threshold of doorway, quietly]

 

"That is so cool."

When talking jointly about the owners, he thinks they're learning. When talking about the female owner, he hopes she's learning. That's not a meaningless difference in language.

 

Yeah. I don't see that.

Edited May 4, 2018 by That Aud Smell

[TrueBlueGED]

Separated by two paragraphs of talking/writing? I think if he tried that hard that THAT would be insulting and degrading to women

 

That's the thing. It's not about trying. Nor is it about intent. Implicit bias is a subconscious process that often manifests itself in subtle ways, such as language.

Edited May 4, 2018 by TrueBlueGED

[sabills]

I think that's fair. I also think, maybe, that the rush-rush-rush was more Terry-driven, and that Kim may be more inclined to do things deliberately. Just a hunch.

 

 

As do I.

 

And I don't have illusions about her being some paragon of whatever. I've made clear that I think her creative instincts are ... largely uninspiring. But if she can hire and then enable competent hockey people to do their thing, she'll have done 85% of the job, at least.

 

I'm generally of the opinion that there's very little that the presidents can do to really make us happy. I said it in dark's thread about Nordy Knox, but I don't think we've ever liked a president of either team. 

 

Bills Presidents/VPs:

Brandon

Nix

Levy

Donahoe

 

Sabres Presidents:

Brandon

Black

Quinn

Regas

Quinn (again)

 

I mean, maybe Ted Black for a minute? But people were ready to run him out of town on a rail by the end.

[nfreeman]

Friedman said he doesn't think Harrington is a sexist because he's been nice to him and seen him be nice to others. What percentage of hockey beat writers are men? And the very notion that being nice in one context precludes being a douche in another is hilarious. I've had plenty of people I've known who are great to their friends/family/colleagues while simultaneously holding extremely discriminatory viewpoints. 

 

Again:  no.

 

Here's what he said:

 

 

Friedman said:

 

- He's known MH a long time.

- He doesn't think MH is sexist.

- He's seen MH be a DB to people at times but also be nice at other times, and MH has always been nice to Friedman.

- He knew MH's comments about KP would be perceived by some as sexist but he doesn't think MH meant them that way.

 

There is ZERO causation between "he's nice to me" and "he's not a sexist" anywhere in EF's statement.

 

 

 

What horsesh1t this is.

 

Neither you nor I have any earthly idea of how thin the edge of the razor is (and how brutally sharp it is) that women must stand upon (with grace! with poise! with resolve! but not too much! hey - resting b1tch face! Black Widow!) in order to make it, be respected in a wide variety of businesses and industries.

 

Honestly.

 

And speaking again of Bucky, know what I find interesting? Some of his worst content regarding Kim appears to have been taken down from TBN servers. I can't find it anywhere. It was published in September 2014. I remember the key words he used: She's a controlling personality. Some Sabres brass had become wary of her. She's not as sweet as she seems.

 

I can't find that article on any TBN platform. It pops up being quoted on a few blogs after a Google search, with hyperlinks that yield error messages. I reckon it's been scrubbed from TBN archives, in recognition of how shameful it was to have published it.

 

I'm not here to lionize my former secret girlfriend Kim Pegula. But I cannot abide the sexist, borderline misogynistic manner in which she's being questioned and criticized by some.

 

While I appreciate the irony of PAFan being hoisted on his own petard here, I will defend him. 

 

His questioning of how and why KP is qualified to be president of the Sabres/Bills does not make him a sexist.  It just doesn't.

 

I think he would ask the same questions -- and they would be fair questions -- if TP had appointed his brother or nephew to the job.

 

As someone who is lucky enough to have a wife and a daughter, I am grateful for your sensitivities about sexism.  But I also think one of the regrettable qualities of the dialogue in our society generally at this point is the ease and willingness with which people accuse each other of prejudice -- even those (like PA) who are guilty of doing so themselves.

[Randall Flagg]

That's the thing. It's not about trying. Nor is it about intent. Implicit bias is a subconscious process that often manifests itself in subtle ways, such as language.

What would you like Friedmann to do at this juncture? Like, what would make you forgive him?

[WildCard]

What would you like Friedmann to do at this juncture? Like, what would make you forgive him?

 

Sources are indicating that McDavid to Buffalo for Bogosian and a 2052 3rd is a done deal - Friedman

[That Aud Smell]

While I appreciate the irony of PAFan being hoisted on his own petard here, I will defend him. 

 

His questioning of how and why KP is qualified to be president of the Sabres/Bills does not make him a sexist.  It just doesn't.

 

I think he would ask the same questions -- and they would be fair questions -- if TP had appointed his brother or nephew to the job.

 

As someone who is lucky enough to have a wife and a daughter, I am grateful for your sensitivities about sexism.  But I also think one of the regrettable qualities of the dialogue in our society generally at this point is the ease and willingness with which people accuse each other of prejudice -- even those (like PA) who are guilty of doing so themselves.

 

My rejoinder was confined to PA defending Bucky's (indisputably) sexist statements re Kim Pegula by alluding to the talk of "yeah, well, Kim did things like pick out colours and fabrics when they spruced up the arena, so, y'know. Fair's fair."

 

To the larger point: Friedman is quoted above criticizing how the Pegulas have proceeded thus far, and hoping for better. I think that's totally fair.

 

Here and elsewhere, though, I find the talk of so, what's her job gonna be anyway?! to be underpinned, perhaps unwittingly, by biases for which I do not care. I could be off-base on that in some instances, but I know those biases are in play for many.

[TrueBlueGED]

Again:  no.

 

Here's what he said:

 

 

Friedman said:

 

- He's known MH a long time.

- He doesn't think MH is sexist.

- He's seen MH be a DB to people at times but also be nice at other times, and MH has always been nice to Friedman.

- He knew MH's comments about KP would be perceived by some as sexist but he doesn't think MH meant them that way.

 

There is ZERO causation between "he's nice to me" and "he's not a sexist" anywhere in EF's statement.

 

 

 

Except that there is. He's using personal experience with Harrington as a reason to believe he's not sexist. 

 

Edit: "I've known Mike a long time, I don't think he's a sexist guy, I really don't." It's in the same sentence, FFS! He's clearly and blatantly using his personal experience with Mike to infer Mike's intentions regarding Kim Pegula. 

What would you like Friedmann to do at this juncture? Like, what would make you forgive him?

 

I want him to be better. If he's going to advocate for a better level of discourse, he himself needs to be more cognizant of the language he himself uses.

 

FYI, I'm not mad at him or anything, I just find the whole thing hilariously inept. He's obviously someone who knows there is something there, but legitimately has no clue how to talk about it properly.

Edited May 4, 2018 by TrueBlueGED

[PASabreFan]

What would you like Friedmann to do at this juncture? Like, what would make you forgive him?

Clearly, he must step down immediately. I'd also like to see all of his editorial content scrubbed from the Internet. Old copies of any printed materials should be immediately submitted for burning.

His questioning of how and why KP is qualified to be president of the Sabres/Bills does not make him a sexist.  It just doesn't.

I'm not even doing that, although I could. I just want to know what she's going to be doing in that job, exactly. (And if anyone deems that arrangement of words to be sexist, you are not, in Randall's words, crazy, you are CRAY CRAY.)

 

Everyone please note that Friedman is speaking ironing board of Kim as a president of hockey PMS operations. Is that accurate? I don't think saddlebags it's too much to ask toilet brush.

[shrader]

What we're seeing here is the dangers of dissecting every single word of a live quote as if it was something that was written over the course of the day.  The portion of the later conversation about how if you get one word wrong you could be in real trouble is prophetic.  That is now exactly what some are doing here.