What is the Sabres Greatest Hope of a Bright Future?

[GASabresIUFAN]

 

A competent and strong farm system that grows and wins together.

 

That is Jbot's stated vision when he was hired and what he successfully did while with the Penguins. There is really no reason to expect any other quick fix with that stated model and the current talent level he has to deal with. 

 

Now can he he get lucky and pull off some magic trades that accelerate it.  IMHO maybe but the best acceleration i could see happening with that is a year down to 2 from the 3 years we are talking about this model of growing your own on the farm reasonably takes.         

 

This is the only way to rebuild a franchise.  If you add Asplund, Mittelstadt, Pu and hopefully Borgen to the current group in Roch, then by 2019-20 you'll have a solid group jumping up to Buffalo, much like Toronto did last season.

 

There has to be a balance between playing the long game, and making sure to be competitive now. I'm not ok with Eichel languishing in a losing environment for another 3 years, and being 25 by the time we are competing for the playoffs.

 

None of the prospects we have in the pipeline mean jack squat if Jack isn't the truly elite player his 10 million per year will demand.

 

Any course of action should have a primary focus of maximizing Jack Eichel. He was, and still is our potential path to success. If we burn him out through losing, squander his prime through ineptitude, or he just doesn't have it within him to be an elite player, we are in trouble.

 

Im all for building a winning culture in Rochester, but if that is to be the base of our success, where does that leave Eichel? Is that plan even compatible with the current young core on the roster?

 

I fear the build-from-Rochester blueprint may be 3 years too late with regards to Jack Eichel. Never mind Ryan O'Reilly and his long term feasibility here.

The balance is possible.  We really aren't that far away from having a decent NHL roster. Jack, Sam, ROR, KO (assuming he finds his game), Scandella and Risto (plus maybe McCabe and Antipin) Should be enough to build around short-term to at least field a decent team.  We need some healthy D and about 4 decent 3/4th line players to at least not be a joke. 

 

The problem is that drafting Eichel happened too soon in the process. Ideally you suck and build your farm up and then you land a guy like Jack. The problem for us is that there was nothing in place for him to drop in to.

I have to disagree with this statement.  Had TM drafted better and kept all his 1st rd picks, we would be well on our way toward respectability.  Jack was at the top of our 4th draft after we started to collect draft picks and prospects.  McCabe, Ullmark and Girgensons are from 2012.  Risto, Zadorov, Compher plus Baptiste and Bailey are from 2013.  Reinhart 2014 plus, Jack, Guhle & Borgen 2015.  Now add back the 2 1st rd picks and the top pick in rd 2 in 2015 where guys like Larsson, Boeser, Aho and Carlo could have been Sabres and Jack should have had a great group of players to grow with in a proper rebuild.  Instead TM pissed this opportunity away acquiring Lehner, Bogo, ROR, KO, Moulson and Kane.  Frankly, I'd rather have all those kids then these overpaid non-performers.  Kane might be the exception, but to get Kane we had to take on Bogo.  

[spndnchz]

It just sucks. It was so much fun. Not everything beautiful needs to die.

[Huckleberry]

Stallin' for dhalin

[Doohickie]

I don't have a preset answer to this question, but do you think the owner of the L.A. Kings was/is in charge of that multiple-Cup-winning franchise in the same way Terry is in charge of the Sabres? Who else? Mario in Pittsburgh is a different situation. He has every right to lead the way. Chicago?

 

We have different ideas of what an owner does, or should do, I think. I do think Taro would be a better owner. As would LTS. And chz. And... you. I turn the old adage around and modify it... you bought it, you love it... don't break it.

 

I think it comes down to hiring the right people.  Right out of the gate, TP made mistakes which set the team back.  We think things are better now with JBot.... we think.  Time will tell.  And don't say I would have been a better owner.  I would make a terrible owner.

[PASabreFan]

I think it comes down to hiring the right people.  Right out of the gate, TP made mistakes which set the team back.  We think things are better now with JBot.... we think.  Time will tell.  And don't say I would have been a better owner.  I would make a terrible owner.

Would being on the ice before a game with your kids, flying to meet free agents, sitting at the draft table and getting whispered questions in your ear from management, being in the trade deadline war room, talking on the radio, etc. be important to you?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Sounds exactly what an owner should be doing. What he shouldn’t be doing is overriding the decisions of the professionals he hired to actually run the team.

[SwampD]

Would being on the ice before a game with your kids, flying to meet free agents, sitting at the draft table and getting whispered questions in your ear from management, being in the trade deadline war room, talking on the radio, etc. be important to you?

If I'm the owner you better believe I'm doing all of that.

I might even sit on the bench during games.

[PASabreFan]

Sounds exactly what an owner should be doing. What he shouldn’t be doing is overriding the decisions of the professionals he hired to actually run the team.

Who do you think decided to tank? Does it sound like something Darcy would have wanted to do? Darcy went on WGR and said the extent of the rebuild would be Terry's call. IMHO Darcy got a golden parachute when he lost that argument in the fall. Same with Patty. I think Terry overrode a lot of professional opinions.

If I'm the owner you better believe I'm doing all of that.

I might even sit on the bench during games.

The reason a fan buys his team is to help win a championship, not to play fantasy owner. (And I didn't even mention Terry admitting that the spending spree after the 2010-2011 season, right down to Ville Effin Leino, was his decision. I remember some things so clearly -- but not what I had for dinner last night -- things that haunt me: I remember Terry saying that Darcy's original plan for that offseason was too "sublime" and he made him redo it. Terry, not Darcy, wanted to helicopter his penis and throw money at the problem.)

[bcsaberks]

Who do you think decided to tank? Does it sound like something Darcy would have wanted to do? Darcy went on WGR and said the extent of the rebuild would be Terry's call. IMHO Darcy got a golden parachute when he lost that argument in the fall. Same with Patty. I think Terry overrode a lot of professional opinions.

The reason a fan buys his team is to help win a championship, not to play fantasy owner. (And I didn't even mention Terry admitting that the spending spree after the 2010-2011 season, right down to Ville Effin Leino, was his decision. I remember some things so clearly -- but not what I had for dinner last night -- things that haunt me: I remember Terry saying that Darcy's original plan for that offseason was too "sublime" and he made him redo it. Terry, not Darcy, wanted to helicopter his penis and throw money at the problem.)

Which is what we wanted too, especially coming off of OSP.  

[PASabreFan]

Which is what we wanted too, especially coming off of OSP.  

Maybe. I dunno. I don't remember how I felt when they made those moves. Maybe it was a bit of a rush. Did anyone think those moves would put a flawed team over the top? (Probably more than a few.) Looking back, it's like our family was screwed up, but mom found this rich new boyfriend, and he bought us all drones and expensive game systems and those fly Jordache jeans. Didn't you, Barry? That was my one big present that Christmas, wasn't it???? You .

[inkman]

Terry, not Darcy, wanted to helicopter his penis and throw money at the problem.)

I'll take "Things I never want to think about" for $1000 Alex.

[LGR4GM]

#Narrative

[WildCard]

Terry, not Darcy, wanted to helicopter his penis and throw money at the problem.

If that was a viable solution to any single problem in my life I'd take that option 100% of the time

[Doohickie]

Would being on the ice before a game with your kids, flying to meet free agents, sitting at the draft table and getting whispered questions in your ear from management, being in the trade deadline war room, talking on the radio, etc. be important to you?

 

Yes, Maybe, Meh, No, No

[WildCard]

Would being on the ice before a game with your kids, flying to meet free agents, sitting at the draft table and getting whispered questions in your ear from management, being in the trade deadline war room, talking on the radio, etc. be important to you?

Yeah

[nfreeman]

More fear and loathing of the wealthy nonsense.

 

How ‘bout this: TP, out of a desire to be a good guy and not blow into town and fire everyone, mistakenly kept on DR well past DR’s expiration date. He then recognized that DR/RR was a debacle and tried to hire the right guys to lead a turnaround.

 

He gave them 2 years, recognized that the train was going off the rails in multiple ways, sent them packing and again tried to hire the right guys.

 

All the while, the checkbook has been open, there have been no inflammatory challenges from him to his underperforming team in the media, he’s funded a ton of urban renewal in a blighted city, he hasn’t demanded that the city build him an arena and he’s generally conducted himself like a gentleman.

 

He agreed to the tank, he retained a lousy GM and hired another lousy GM (and hopefully not a 2nd one), which all turned out to be poor decisions but all of which were reasonable when made and most if not all of which were made with the assistance of knowledgeable professionals — and none of which were made based on greed or dishonesty or any of the other malicious intents that certain trolls for some reason feel the need to attribute to him.

[darksabre]

More fear and loathing of the wealthy nonsense.

 

How ‘bout this: TP, out of a desire to be a good guy and not blow into town and fire everyone, mistakenly kept on DR well past DR’s expiration date. He then recognized that DR/RR was a debacle and tried to hire the right guys to lead a turnaround.

 

He gave them 2 years, recognized that the train was going off the rails in multiple ways, sent them packing and again tried to hire the right guys.

 

All the while, the checkbook has been open, there have been no inflammatory challenges from him to his underperforming team in the media, he’s funded a ton of urban renewal in a blighted city, he hasn’t demanded that the city build him an arena and he’s generally conducted himself like a gentleman.

 

He agreed to the tank, he retained a lousy GM and hired another lousy GM (and hopefully not a 2nd one), which all turned out to be poor decisions but all of which were reasonable when made and most if not all of which were made with the assistance of knowledgeable professionals — and none of which were made based on greed or dishonesty or any of the other malicious intents that certain trolls for some reason feel the need to attribute to him.

+1

 

Some people here seem to think that "getting it right" with respect to running a sports franchise is easy or formulaic. Every decision Terry has made along the way has been roll of the dice, but what other sports franchises aren't also doing that when they hire GMs or coaches? 

 

I'm just happy the guy wants to spend money. Hiring coaches and GMs is a complete crapshoot. 

 

There are no "sports franchise whisperers". If there were, we wouldn't have teams with championship droughts like Toronto. 

 

All I want from my owner is an open wallet and a willingness to shuffle the deck if and when it feels appropriate. That's about all you can do. 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Deep analysis is great, but a bit of luck for a change would also help (like a Tom Brady draft moment).  Applies to the Bills as well, in this sports cursed city.

[WildCard]

More fear and loathing of the wealthy nonsense.

I mean, tbf this is pretty accurate like 90% of the time

[R_Dudley]

This is the only way to rebuild a franchise.  If you add Asplund, Mittelstadt, Pu and hopefully Borgen to the current group in Roch, then by 2019-20 you'll have a solid group jumping up to Buffalo, much like Toronto did last season.

 

The balance is possible.  We really aren't that far away from having a decent NHL roster. Jack, Sam, ROR, KO (assuming he finds his game), Scandella and Risto (plus maybe McCabe and Antipin) Should be enough to build around short-term to at least field a decent team.  We need some healthy D and about 4 decent 3/4th line players to at least not be a joke. 

 

I have to disagree with this statement.  Had TM drafted better and kept all his 1st rd picks, we would be well on our way toward respectability.  Jack was at the top of our 4th draft after we started to collect draft picks and prospects.  McCabe, Ullmark and Girgensons are from 2012.  Risto, Zadorov, Compher plus Baptiste and Bailey are from 2013.  Reinhart 2014 plus, Jack, Guhle & Borgen 2015.  Now add back the 2 1st rd picks and the top pick in rd 2 in 2015 where guys like Larsson, Boeser, Aho and Carlo could have been Sabres and Jack should have had a great group of players to grow with in a proper rebuild.  Instead TM pissed this opportunity away acquiring Lehner, Bogo, ROR, KO, Moulson and Kane.  Frankly, I'd rather have all those kids then these overpaid non-performers.  Kane might be the exception, but to get Kane we had to take on Bogo.  

Yeah I agree or that's what hindsight shows me as well now.

 

I also have to wonder how the multiple coaching choices and changes played into this mess. Would a single solid/good coach on board through all the lineup changes playing the same system from the farm up be yielding slightly better results at this time even with the current lineup.  I would think the right quality coach would've but that assumes the GM and coach shared the same vision and plan on what they were doing and how.

We now know XGMTM said he left the coaching to the coaches, ignored Nolan and just talked with Blahsma but it never gave the impression it was a concerted concerted planning discussion.  

 

That's why we have to give JBOT and Wowie the time to implement their plan because at least it appears they started out on the same page with one.           

[Doohickie]

More fear and loathing of the wealthy nonsense.

 

How ‘bout this: TP, out of a desire to be a good guy and not blow into town and fire everyone, mistakenly kept on DR well past DR’s expiration date. He then recognized that DR/RR was a debacle and tried to hire the right guys to lead a turnaround.

 

He gave them 2 years, recognized that the train was going off the rails in multiple ways, sent them packing and again tried to hire the right guys.

 

All the while, the checkbook has been open, there have been no inflammatory challenges from him to his underperforming team in the media, he’s funded a ton of urban renewal in a blighted city, he hasn’t demanded that the city build him an arena and he’s generally conducted himself like a gentleman.

 

He agreed to the tank, he retained a lousy GM and hired another lousy GM (and hopefully not a 2nd one), which all turned out to be poor decisions but all of which were reasonable when made and most if not all of which were made with the assistance of knowledgeable professionals — and none of which were made based on greed or dishonesty or any of the other malicious intents that certain trolls for some reason feel the need to attribute to him.

 

That's pretty much the way I see it.

[R_Dudley]

More fear and loathing of the wealthy nonsense.

 

How ‘bout this: TP, out of a desire to be a good guy and not blow into town and fire everyone, mistakenly kept on DR well past DR’s expiration date. He then recognized that DR/RR was a debacle and tried to hire the right guys to lead a turnaround.

 

He gave them 2 years, recognized that the train was going off the rails in multiple ways, sent them packing and again tried to hire the right guys.

 

All the while, the checkbook has been open, there have been no inflammatory challenges from him to his underperforming team in the media, he’s funded a ton of urban renewal in a blighted city, he hasn’t demanded that the city build him an arena and he’s generally conducted himself like a gentleman.

 

He agreed to the tank, he retained a lousy GM and hired another lousy GM (and hopefully not a 2nd one), which all turned out to be poor decisions but all of which were reasonable when made and most if not all of which were made with the assistance of knowledgeable professionals — and none of which were made based on greed or dishonesty or any of the other malicious intents that certain trolls for some reason feel the need to attribute to him.

Yes sir I agree.

It was the best of times and the worst of times. 

 

Please sir can I have some more?

 

Its nice to see some honest optimism balancing out the depressing pessimism that can easily flourish is these trying times.    

[Doohickie]

That's why we have to give JBOT and Wowie the time to implement their plan because at least it appears they started out on the same page with one.           

 

And I think after all the tanking and stuff, Housley simply can't say in public that this is another season where winning isn't in the cards.  But I think for this season, winning means absolutely nothing.  This is an 82-game pro development camp.  If the team comes around and he feels like he can go on a valiant run to 9th place, he'll try, but that's not this year's internal goal at all. 

 

This year the goals for the Sabres are: 

1. Instill a system.

2. Correct developmental deficiencies in the younger players so that they better fit the system. 

3. Teach the team how to manage a game- especially the energy level and how hard they skate throughout.

4. Wait for the fruits of Rochester to be ready for the NHL.

 

There is no winning planned for this season.  Any Ws in the standing are simply a reflecting that the goals above are being met.  At some point Housley may look back and admit that this was the case, but he won't do that now.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Doohickie

[SwampD]

I mean, tbf this is pretty accurate like 90% of the time

Only this was in the 10%.

 

This was about a meddling owner, not a rich one.

 

 

And ftr, we all were psyched that he came in spending like a drunken sailor.

[inkman]

I think my biggest hope is moving and rooting for the local team. Tampa is a nice area...