WildCard Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 So one more time now: we're going to be penny-pinchers with the team's leading goal scorer entering his prime years, hoping for maybe a middle-pair defenseman and/or a completely unproven 18-year old or two in return, while Ennis + Bogosian + Gorges + Moulson still exist on the payroll? It has nothing to do with being penny-pinchers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 For the record, I understand your point of view, I just disagree with it. Oh yea? Well the jerk store called, and they're running outta you! :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 Can we move Bogosian. Â :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 Can we move Bogosian.  :P Would be nice to move Moulson or Bogo, or Ennis and clear roughly 4-5mil in cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 So one more time now: we're going to be penny-pinchers with the team's leading goal scorer entering his prime years, hoping for maybe a middle-pair defenseman and/or a completely unproven 18-year old or two in return, while Ennis + Bogosian + Gorges + Moulson still exist on the payroll? There are no takers for Ennis/Bogo/Gorges/Moulson. You can't just wish them off the roster. Other teams paid first round picks to Vegas to take their cap hits - do we really want to do that when we aren't contending this year and have cap space to spare in 17-18? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 Oh yea? Well the jerk store called, and they're running outta you! :P Well I had sex with YOUR wife! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 Well I had sex with YOUR wife! Best, 30 seconds of your life...  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 I'm all for winning, I really am. I'd love to see the Sabres do well this year and make the playoffs. Â My speculation is that this is the highest value for Kane that we are going to get, as waiting to the deadline or keeping him all year introduces injury and/or production regression that will lower the value for 2018 and beyond. If i'm the GM, I am targeting being truly competitive (i.e. Cup) in the next few years, before we have to pay our young players their big money contracts. Yes, his return in a trade is higher now than in 7 months. Â But it's very debatable that the return will be worth more (especially when discounting value beyond this season (we want playoffs & 2nd round NOW)) than the worst case of having Kane at 95%+ for 45 games, @50% for another 15, and his cap space back come next off-season. Especially when he appears to be exactly what you're looking for come playoff time. Â If JB can make a deal that makes sense both ST & LT, ok. Just not expecting a deal where the talent brought back for this season matches what's going out the door. And if the team loses ST, don't make the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 Would be nice to move Moulson or Bogo, or Ennis and clear roughly 4-5mil in cap.  I'd take a 7th round pick in 2020 for Bogo to be off this team.  Moulson has just two more seasons.  Ennis being protected still annoys me.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 Well I had sex with YOUR wife!   Best, 30 seconds of your life...  then her husband chased me with a knife... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 I'd take a 7th round pick in 2020 for Bogo to be off this team.  Moulson has just two more seasons.  Ennis being protected still annoys me.  Why? They were never taking Tyler Ennis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 I'm all for winning, I really am. I'd love to see the Sabres do well this year and make the playoffs.  My speculation is that this is the highest value for Kane that we are going to get, as waiting to the deadline or keeping him all year introduces injury and/or production regression that will lower the value for 2018 and beyond. If i'm the GM, I am targeting being truly competitive (i.e. Cup) in the next few years, before we have to pay our young players their big money contracts.  But your speculation is just that: Speculation. You look at past performance and reach a position based on weighing the various factors. We weigh them a little differently and come to a different position.  I think this thread is emblematic of a bigger question: What is JBot's style as a GM? Can he manage the cap such that it makes sense to keep Kane this year and extend him beyond that? Which current roster players does he value? Which would he prefer to move. Maybe he values Kane over Reinhart; if Samson is more likely to be moved, that would leave more room for Kane (depending on the return for Reinhart). I don't think we've seen enough of JBot to know which direction he will take the team, but if he's moving toward a dynamic, pressuring, 5-man attack I can see a case for keeping Kane and moving Samson.  It's not necessarily either-or with Kane and Reinhart either; those are just two of the many moving pieces. Let's see what JBot does over the summer but until we see a bigger body of work it's hard to gauge what he's going to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 But your speculation is just that: Speculation. You look at past performance and reach a position based on weighing the various factors. We weigh them a little differently and come to a different position.  I think this thread is emblematic of a bigger question: What is JBot's style as a GM? Can he manage the cap such that it makes sense to keep Kane this year and extend him beyond that? Which current roster players does he value? Which would he prefer to move. Maybe he values Kane over Reinhart; if Samson is more likely to be moved, that would leave more room for Kane (depending on the return for Reinhart). I don't think we've seen enough of JBot to know which direction he will take the team, but if he's moving toward a dynamic, pressuring, 5-man attack I can see a case for keeping Kane and moving Samson.  It's not necessarily either-or with Kane and Reinhart either; those are just two of the many moving pieces. Let's see what JBot does over the summer but until we see a bigger body of work it's hard to gauge what he's going to do. Well of course it is speculation. If I knew what the offers were it would be much easier to weigh the value. :nana:  I think we are all curious about how both JBot and Housley see our team going forward and what style/strengths they are looking for. It makes this conversation all the more difficult as there are so many unknown variables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRobertEichel Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 I also notice that a lot of us are assuming we won't have the cap space to afford the market value for Kane + Eichel + Reinhart, but has anyone here actually crunched the numbers? Even supposing that we're stuck with Ennis + Gorges + Bogosian + Moulson for the entirety of their contracts, Gorges is coming off the books next year, Ennis and Moulson in 2, and Bogo in 3. Is Botterill a trained capologist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 Kane+ for Hanifin (E3) This would be incredible, so there's no chance it could be true :(Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 I also notice that a lot of us are assuming we won't have the cap space to afford the market value for Kane + Eichel + Reinhart, but has anyone here actually crunched the numbers? Even supposing that we're stuck with Ennis + Gorges + Bogosian + Moulson for the entirety of their contracts, Gorges is coming off the books next year, Ennis and Moulson in 2, and Bogo in 3. Is Botterill a trained capologist? Don't forget we'll need space to lock up Antipin long term when he blows it up this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 I also notice that a lot of us are assuming we won't have the cap space to afford the market value for Kane + Eichel + Reinhart, but has anyone here actually crunched the numbers? Even supposing that we're stuck with Ennis + Gorges + Bogosian + Moulson for the entirety of their contracts, Gorges is coming off the books next year, Ennis and Moulson in 2, and Bogo in 3. Is Botterill a trained capologist? We can if that's the direction the team wants to go, but we currently fit them in when our defense is pretty trash and I think we should allocate more of our cap to solid defense than forwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 He's younger than Lucic was when they made the trade for him. If you can get 1st, 2nd, and Clague. Make the deal. Anything less move on. Is it the hound or the mountain? The hound offers a little more not being dead and such... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 Is it the hound or the mountain? The hound offers a little more not being dead and such... Off Topic - there is rumor that this season will feature a battle between the Clegane brothers #cleganebowl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 (Get hype!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 Can't we live in the now a little bit?  Do we always have to be planning three years ahead?  I want to see this team make the playoffs and win a series.  Or just keep him?  Why are people so eager to see him traded?  Not to speak for Eleven, but I am pretty sure his point is, irrespective of ability to sign Kane, why trade now and potentially sacrifice actually winning games for a change. I tend to agree with it. If we all think he's not garnering a team need or a blue chip pick, the value we waste isnt all that high really, is it? So lets just start winning and let the chips fall where they may.   I'm on this team with you fellows.  Blue, your side is well-reasoned as well, don't get me wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 Â Â I'm on this team with you fellows. Â Blue, your side is well-reasoned as well, don't get me wrong. How dare you amicably disagree. This is the internet, dammit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 How dare you amicably disagree. This is the internet, dammit! Damn. Right, sorry. Reading your arguments, you are clearly on peyote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 Read. The. Thread.  How many wins do you think he's worth over replacement? Without even glancing at any models, I'd say around 2.  Two could be the difference between playoffs and out. It could be the difference between a series with Pittsburgh and a series with Ottawa.  Like I said, let the chips fall where they may. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-90 W Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 I'd do Kane and #8 for Forbort and #11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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