Tim Murray and Dan Byslma Have Been Fired

[RustySabre]

I liked the way the Don Maloney handled is Coyote situation. Limited money, uncertain future with ownership and lease issues. Three times to the playoffs under those pressures. Didn't want to see him go but it was either he or Tippett that was going to get canned and the owners sided with Tippett who wanted more power.

He's now a scout for the Flames. Hope they at least give him an interview.

[7+6=13]

I will say this:  I don't remember much from my economics class, but one thing I remember is that it was stressed that one should not judge the value going forward of a commodity based on the investment made in said commodity to date.  In other words, the moment you realize you don't have the right man, you move on.

 

That's exactly right.  We're just not used to this so some fans panic and call it turbulent meddling by the Pegula's.  

 

We're conditioned to having to wait until every ounce of hope is drained from the entire organization before we fire a coach because of the guaranteed money.  Well the Pegula's don't care about the money and if they know it's not going right they're moving on. 

 

They have expectations of winning and they make that as obvious as any owner in sports.  They expected better from the Sabres - they didn't get involved during the season - at the end the season they meet with those running the team and the excuses and/or plan these two had wasn't good enough to save their jobs. 

 

I liked Murray but bye - they're not messing around. 

Edited April 20, 2017 by 7+6=13

[qwksndmonster]

I don't know how far I want to take my speculation, but we could go all the way back to GMTM's initial spat with PLF if you want to look for smoke.

 

At the very least I think what we saw with the whole pep talk thing, and the sudden rule making, is that GMTM had WAYYYYY too much faith in Bylsma. And by the time he started doing what he needed to do, it was too late.

I agree, but I have this niggling feeling that Murray should have gotten a second chance at choosing a coach. I think it's reasonable to bet that FGMTM would have been able to improve his communication skills with a new coach and build a culture from the ground up. And to be fair to Murray, he is a first time GM.

 

What's the point of taking a chance at a young, unproven GM if you're not going to give him time to learn from his mistakes and grow as a hockey exec?

 

The Pegulas have needed to grow as sports owners. I'd personally bet on Tim Murray's learning curve as a gm being faster than theirs as owners.

 

I stand by the moves that Tim Murray made. I think it was reasonable to go into this season with Kulikov and Bogosian in the top 4. I think a good coach would see that the way to make the most of our roster is to play aggressive possession hockey. Kulikov's strengths as a player are in transition. He's good on the rush. Pretty much the only thing Bogosian can do is skate hard and shoot.

 

Yet we comitted to low event hockey, getting outshot most nights. And the narratives grew that Bogosian and Kulikov are useless players. They're certainly not ideal defensemen to have as your second pair, and McCabe is not the ideal #2, but that defense core can absolutely make the playoffs behind our good forwards.

 

I don't think it's fair to say that Murray's not a good team builder. It could be true, but we didn't get a chance to find out. Murray wasn't icing the finished product this year. He tried to get more help on D last offseason, but didn't like the price. With the expansion draft coming up, it was a good idea to stand pat and pounce in the future. Not to mention that Kane regained his value in a big way, and is probably our sexiest trade chip. I was excited to see who Murray was gonna trade for to shore up the D, and I trusted his judgement.

 

Murray was a good soldier, and never acted in desperation for his job. He only made moves with the franchise's best interests at heart. He took a big swing and a miss on Bylsma, and hung onto him way too long, but I'm not sure that alone is worth firing him.

[darksabre]

I agree, but I have this niggling feeling that Murray should have gotten a second chance at choosing a coach. I think it's reasonable to bet that FGMTM would have been able to improve his communication skills with a new coach and build a culture from the ground up. And to be fair to Murray, he is a first time GM.

 

What's the point of taking a chance at a young, unproven GM if you're not going to give him time to learn from his mistakes and grow as a hockey exec?

 

The Pegulas have needed to grow as sports owners. I'd personally bet on Tim Murray's learning curve as a gm being faster than theirs as owners.

 

I stand by the moves that Tim Murray made. I think it was reasonable to go into this season with Kulikov and Bogosian in the top 4. I think a good coach would see that the way to make the most of our roster is to play aggressive possession hockey. Kulikov's strengths as a player are in transition. He's good on the rush. Pretty much the only thing Bogosian can do is skate hard and shoot.

 

Yet we comitted to low event hockey, getting outshot most nights. And the narratives grew that Bogosian and Kulikov are useless players. They're certainly not ideal defensemen to have as your second pair, and McCabe is not the ideal #2, but that defense core can absolutely make the playoffs behind our good forwards.

 

I don't think it's fair to say that Murray's not a good team builder. It could be true, but we didn't get a chance to find out. Murray wasn't icing the finished product this year. He tried to get more help on D last offseason, but didn't like the price. With the expansion draft coming up, it was a good idea to stand pat and pounce in the future. Not to mention that Kane regained his value in a big way, and is probably our sexiest trade chip. I was excited to see who Murray was gonna trade for to shore up the D, and I trusted his judgement.

 

Murray was a good soldier, and never acted in desperation for his job. He only made moves with the franchise's best interests at heart. He took a big swing and a miss on Bylsma, and hung onto him way too long, but I'm not sure that alone is worth firing him.

I agree with this pretty much word for word.

 

We'll see how I feel about things in October. Right now I just have no idea if this was the right move. I'm satisfied with Bylsma being gone. On to the next thing I guess.

[Tondas]

Just catching wind of all this now.

 

The firing of GMTM strikes me as strange; Pegula has revealed himself, slowly, over time, to be kind of an idiot and not a good owner at all.

 

He has lots of money and kept both teams in Buffalo.  Once you get beyond that, his ownership of both franchises has been total crap.

 

This 100%.  Keeping the Sabres/Bills in WNY gave Pagula some leeway.  But the guy never impressed as a great businessman.  The guy can't talk his way out of a paper bag and has run a small businness that was fortunate in and up-and-coming energy business.  Good for him.  Sort of like a president that I know.

 

Watch the presser on Friday.   This guy is no genius businessman, but a small business owner way over his head and has no experience running a muli-layered, sports franchise.  Not many people have and it's a difficult skill to acquire.  I don't blame Pegula, but I think that his being a billionaire has given him credibilty as a good businessman.  Becoming rich doesn't necessarily make you a good manager or leader.  We are seeing this now.  I sincerely hope Terry and Kim realize this now, and hand the keys off to a professional.

[eman]

I think this very much supports my musings on GMTM failing to take a hands-on enough approach with the team. He made the mistake of giving DDB too much space and it made a huge mess. Now he's paying the price for it. 

Right you are sir. GMTM stood the course when he should have replaced Bylsma as Montreal did with Therrien and Boston with Julien and the Islanders with Weight. (and those teams were performing way better then the Sabres and still pulled the trigger) He did nothing to address the defence woes as the season went on so what is the point of him as a GM? It was bloody obvious to all of us watching the team this season that Bylsma's system was not the right fit for this club and unfortunately we waited too long for Gerard Gallant. I was not a fan of Murray and am glad they are both gone. We do have Jack ichel who will hopefully be allowed to flourish under a new coach & GM. Give us a coach with some fire and passion and a GM who is at least willing to part with dead wood and at least try to deal when the timing is right. I mentioned this a long time ago when Bylsma and Murray were hired that I was not a fan of either and got shouted down on this board for it. You do have to look at past history and Bylsma's was poor in Pittsburgh despite the Cup. I was not sure what Murray's GM criteria was other then being a part of the "Murray" hockey family. It has come home to roost and I do hope Terry and the rest of the management group get these next 2 choices right as there is some decent talent here. (Kane, O'Reilly, Okposo, Ristolainen, McCabe, Reinhart and even Lehner- although I would not be ready to anoint him #1 just yet- but with a better D in front, perhaps) The head coach decision will be seriously important though, My take is that both needed to go and that has transpired. Onward and upward!

[bunomatic]

I don't have to guess, I know Pegula is a ###### moron

I have to agree. He needs to hire a president of hockey ops and get out of the fukcin way. Moronic .

[LTS]

I'd freaking love to know if Pegula thought a coaching change should have happened at some point during the season and Murray stood up for Dan. I'd kill for that kind of knowledge.

 

 

Same.

 

It may well be that Pegula kicked the tires on Julien and perhaps that's how the media found out.  If Murray didn't want to make the jump then you can bet that it might have pushed things towards this point.

[eman]

I have to agree. He needs to hire a president of hockey ops and get out of the fukcin way. Moronic ######.

I agree as well, get a hockey guy in there who knows the people available and their history. It is working in Toronto and remember when we used to laugh at that organization? Guess what? We are currently that organization that we used to laugh at. I hate the Leafs a lot but I have to give them credit, they have set up their organization smartly. Th Sabres have a great and almost loyal to a fault, fan base and completely inept management as it stands right now (and playoff absences of 6 years running)

[GoPre]

Dave Davis @DaveDavisHockey

Per Friedman, theory (just a theory) floating around that Murray was responsible for Eichel story leak and it was the last straw for Pegula.

4:18 PM - 20 Apr 2017

 

 

 

I'm calling bs on that theory

Edited April 21, 2017 by GoPre

[PromoTheRobot]

Like any GM, he gets credit for his good moves and criticism for his poor ones -- but most of all, he, like every GM, is accountable for W-L results, because his job is to produce a winning team. He's failed.

You realize he was considered for GM of the year about a year ago?

 

So let's go with you for argument sake. Assuming he survives post-draft and the Bills make the playoffs, will he be a success or still a failure?

[eman]

Dave Davis @DaveDavisHockey

Per Friedman, theory (just a theory) floating around that Murray was responsible for Eichel story leak and it was the last straw for Pegula.

4:18 PM - 20 Apr 2017

 

 

 

I'm calling bs on that theory

and on that topic, God Bless Jack Eichel if he was the catalyst for all this change. If he did speak his mind ( other then what he said to the media, which was all the correct things to say) then good on him. At least he has a passion and will to win and we cannot go another season wasting his talent. I am sorry that Dan and Tim lost their jobs in the process as I am sure they are 2 good men, but this is the pro sport business and the goal is winning. Business has been poor for this hockey club for over 6 seasons now. I'll take many more Jack Eichels please! In Jack I trust.

[PromoTheRobot]

Dave Davis @DaveDavisHockey

 

Per Friedman, theory (just a theory) floating around that Murray was responsible for Eichel story leak and it was the last straw for Pegula.

4:18 PM - 20 Apr 2017

 

 

I'm calling bs on that theory

I have it on good authority that Russ Brandon leaked the Eichel story because he was jealous of how popular he was with the fans.

[bunomatic]

I have it on good authority that Russ Brandon leaked the Eichel story because he was jealous of how popular he was with the fans.

Russ Brandon should be shot out of a cannon over Niagara falls. Pegula is an imbecile for allowing that guy anywhere near this franchise.

[PASabreFan]

TB thing? Not sure what that is.

 

I've read accounts that Brandon had a role in ownership's decision to move on from Murray, and that the process of disenchantment dates back to the start of this season.

Trending Buffalo on Twitter. The screenshots of an alleged conversation between a reporter (?) and someone inside the Sabres organeyezation. Any links for these accounts?

[nfreeman]

You realize he was considered for GM of the year about a year ago?

 

So let's go with you for argument sake. Assuming he survives post-draft and the Bills make the playoffs, will he be a success or still a failure?

 

Considered by whom?  The PTR Delusion Club?

 

He was also just ranked as the worst GM in the NFL by Rotoworld.

 

As for your question -- that's quite an assumption.  Should we also assume he sprouts wings and flies the Bills to their away games? 

 

and on that topic, God Bless Jack Eichel if he was the catalyst for all this change. If he did speak his mind ( other then what he said to the media, which was all the correct things to say) then good on him. At least he has a passion and will to win and we cannot go another season wasting his talent. I am sorry that Dan and Tim lost their jobs in the process as I am sure they are 2 good men, but this is the pro sport business and the goal is winning. Business has been poor for this hockey club for over 6 seasons now. I'll take many more Jack Eichels please! In Jack I trust.

 

It has occurred to me that TP saw Eichel's interview and put it into the growing pile of evidence that the wheels had fallen off.

[PromoTheRobot]

Trending Buffalo on Twitter. The screenshots of an alleged conversation between a reporter (?) and someone inside the Sabres organeyezation. Any links for these accounts?

Taro's and Aud's assertion that RB is a Dbag makes me more convinced there is a campaign to smear him by people who dislike him.

[eman]

As it stands right now, I am down with Lombardi and Sutter or Dudley and Housley as GM's and coaches because I believe either group could do better then the ### show we witnessed this season and at the very least, they would not tolerate any "passengers" on this flight if you know what I mean. Time to cut bait.

[I-90 W]

Russ Brandon should be shot out of a cannon over Niagara falls. Pegula is an imbecile for allowing that guy anywhere near this franchise.

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong (I'm a Giants fan and don't know anything about the Bills) but doesn't Russ Brandon only preside over the business aspect of the Sabres? As in ticket sales etc..

[PromoTheRobot]

Considered by whom? The PTR Delusion Club?

 

He was also just ranked as the worst GM in the NFL by Rotoworld.

 

 

You know if you are going to call fake news, pick something that isn't so easily verified with Google :lol:

 

http://buffalonews.com/2016/10/12/vic-caruccis-bills-wake-call-whaley-nfl-executive-year-candidate-believe/

[GoPre]

Forgive me if I'm wrong (I'm a Giants fan and don't know anything about the Bills) but doesn't Russ Brandon only preside over the business aspect of the Sabres? As in ticket sales etc..

 

So he says....

[PromoTheRobot]

So he says....

People need a villain.

[TrueBlueGED]

I agree, but I have this niggling feeling that Murray should have gotten a second chance at choosing a coach. I think it's reasonable to bet that FGMTM would have been able to improve his communication skills with a new coach and build a culture from the ground up. And to be fair to Murray, he is a first time GM.

 

What's the point of taking a chance at a young, unproven GM if you're not going to give him time to learn from his mistakes and grow as a hockey exec?

 

The Pegulas have needed to grow as sports owners. I'd personally bet on Tim Murray's learning curve as a gm being faster than theirs as owners.

 

I stand by the moves that Tim Murray made. I think it was reasonable to go into this season with Kulikov and Bogosian in the top 4. I think a good coach would see that the way to make the most of our roster is to play aggressive possession hockey. Kulikov's strengths as a player are in transition. He's good on the rush. Pretty much the only thing Bogosian can do is skate hard and shoot.

 

Yet we comitted to low event hockey, getting outshot most nights. And the narratives grew that Bogosian and Kulikov are useless players. They're certainly not ideal defensemen to have as your second pair, and McCabe is not the ideal #2, but that defense core can absolutely make the playoffs behind our good forwards.

 

I don't think it's fair to say that Murray's not a good team builder. It could be true, but we didn't get a chance to find out. Murray wasn't icing the finished product this year. He tried to get more help on D last offseason, but didn't like the price. With the expansion draft coming up, it was a good idea to stand pat and pounce in the future. Not to mention that Kane regained his value in a big way, and is probably our sexiest trade chip. I was excited to see who Murray was gonna trade for to shore up the D, and I trusted his judgement.

 

Murray was a good soldier, and never acted in desperation for his job. He only made moves with the franchise's best interests at heart. He took a big swing and a miss on Bylsma, and hung onto him way too long, but I'm not sure that alone is worth firing him.

 

I think the two things I have bolded are related. My working theory builds off of something I've posted about before, a nagging thought I just couldn't shake: that Murray and Bylsma really were on the same page. Unless something Pegula says tomorrow really sways me, I believe when Murray said last week that he had never given any thought to firing Dan, he was giving the blunt truth. I think, to the end, Murray had no intention of firing Bylsma. Now some will say they don't think he'd fall on the sword for Bylsma, but I don't think he was given an ultimatum of any kind. I think part of the plan forward he layed out for the Pegulas included retaining Bylsma for the 2017 season. The Pegulas took the night to evaluate things, and essentially decided that what Murray had presented wasn't a satisfactory plan moving forward, and retaining Bylsma was a big (but certainly not only) part of that.

 

And yes, I think Bylsma was so bad, that retaining him would be a fireable offense. More to the point, if my read of things is correct, it really does call into question Murray's ability to grow as a GM.

Edited April 21, 2017 by TrueBlueGED

[bunomatic]

Forgive me if I'm wrong (I'm a Giants fan and don't know anything about the Bills) but doesn't Russ Brandon only preside over the business aspect of the Sabres? As in ticket sales etc..

He's in his ear. Pegula needs hockey people to make the hockey decisions. Pegula should concentrate on being a fan. All this team has done since he bought it is spin its wheels. 

[Cityo'Rasmii]

Russ Brandon should be shot out of a cannon over Niagara falls. Pegula is an imbecile for allowing that guy anywhere near this franchise.

:w00t:  Russ in the Daredevil Museum