Big change coming and needed on Sabres roster.

[Jsixspd]

I don't think Murray is willing and/or able to execute this kind of turnover at this point in the rebuild.

Can we still call this train-wreck a 'rebuild'?  78 points.  That's 7-8

[TrueBlueGED]

This isn't turnover but the pruning of dead weight from the roster.

That's more dead weight than can reasonably be pruned in one offseason, IMO. I'm also not sure Murray agrees that it's all dead weight.

Can we still call this train-wreck a 'rebuild'? 78 points. That's 7-8

Though I'm in a very bad place with the team, it was still only the second full offseason where the goal was to improve the on ice product. Of the two, we had one year of significant improvement, and one year of small step back (which one could argue was more of a sideways step). Thats not train wreck...yet. If we're having this conversation a year from now...

[dudacek]

Though I'm in a very bad place with the team, it was still only the second full offseason where the goal was to improve the on ice product. Of the two, we had one year of significant improvement, and one year of small step back (which one could argue was more of a sideways step). Thats not train wreck...yet. If we're having this conversation a year from now...

More or less what Murray said today, isn't it?

[GASabresIUFAN]

That's more dead weight than can reasonably be pruned in one offseason, IMO. I'm also not sure Murray agrees that it's all dead weight.

 

Though I'm in a very bad place with the team, it was still only the second full offseason where the goal was to improve the on ice product. Of the two, we had one year of significant improvement, and one year of small step back (which one could argue was more of a sideways step). Thats not train wreck...yet. If we're having this conversation a year from now...

 

Why?  Dumping Franson and Kulikov are two pieces for dead weight already gone and replaced with Guhle and likely Anitpin.  Falk outplayed Gorges, so why not buyout Gorges and save the $2 mill?  That's 3 pieces of dead weight gone who GMTM already ackowledged are dead weight.  Move on from at least one of the expensive failures at forward (Moulson and/or Ennis) by trade, waivers, expansion or if necessary buyout this season and then get rid of the other one next season.  Don't re-sign Gionta.  Trade one if not both of Larsson and Girgensons for a vet 4th line center who can win a draw and you have created roster space for at least 3 wing prospects in Bailey, Carrier and Baptiste.

 

More or less what Murray said today, isn't it?

I think GMTM agrees that the D was a train wreck this season, but with his playoff or bust next season pronouncement at the presser, he is asking for one more year of patience.  Honestly, if we don't have 8 NHL D on the opening night roster (with none named Kulikov, Franson or Gorges) then GMTM has already failed the team.

[Beer]

The overhaul that needs to happen is the coach.

 

I think all of our UFAs will not be back so we can say goodbye to Gionta, Kulikov and Fransen

 

I'm hoping we lose Ennis or Moulson to Vegas and DLO gets buried in the AHL.

 

Kane isn't going anywhere.

 

Anitpin and Guhle join the team

 

Our number 1 pick this year is being dealt along with Girgensons or god-willing, Bogosian in return for a top 4- dman

 

Ullmark replaces Nielson

 

Here's how I can see the lines looking like with new additions bolded (as in guys who aren't on the team right now or played the majority of the season).

 

Forwards:

 

Okposo - ROR - Kane

Foligno - Eichel - Reinhart

Smith/Baily - Larsson - Fasching

Carrier - E-Rod - Moulson

 

xx Baily or DLO

 

Defense:

 

Risto - McCabe

Antipin - Acquisition for our 1st round pick package

Guhle - Bogo

 

7th man: Gorges

 

Goal:

 

Lehner - Ullmark

 

 

That's about 7 "new" faces of our 23 man roster, ~30% overhaul.

I'd like to see someone with more speed on Jack's line, maybe Baptiste or Carrier replaces Foligno... but we have a long offseason to discuss line combos.

 

I'm still pissed DD didn't put Nylander on Jack's line for a game.

 

I think a new coach who gets the team to play a possession game is our biggest need. If GMTM can sign a couple solid role players (which is entirely possible) then we have a real shot at the playoffs.

[thewookie1]

Just curious on your opinions and unsure of where to put it

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/300898  Next Year

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/300906  In 2 years

[inkman]

Fowler was Anaheim's best defenseman and probably best player this season. Why wouldn't they trade another dman?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Wookie, I agree that if GMTM is inclined to trade Kane, ANA is the most likely trading partner, but they won't be trading us Fowler. I think Vatanen is the most likely trade piece. Moving Vatanen allows them to go from an 8-1 scenario to 7-3-1 and protect Silfverberg and Kane up front. It also allows them to shed Vatanen's nearly $5 mill per season long-term deal. We'd probably have to take Stoner in the deal to make the money work for them, but I'm actually ok with that because Stoner only has one year left on his deal. He'd slot in here as the 8th D, as long as we buyout Gorges.

 

In this scenario the D might look like this

McCabe Risto

Antipin Vatanen

Guhle Bogo

Falk Stoner

 

That is a very mobile D group with upside potential with legit depth players for only 23.9 mill (inlcuding Gorges buyout) vs the 25 mill we paid this season.

 

 

 

Ana would then lose Manson to expansion LV. None of this would actually be a problem for the Ducks. They would bring up Montour, Larsson and Theodore to their NHL team and still have Depres (if healthy), Bieksa, Fowler and Lindholm. What a luxury for the Ducks.

[thewookie1]

Wookie, I agree that if GMTM is inclined to trade Kane, ANA is the most likely trading partner, but they won't be trading us Fowler. I think Vatanen is the most likely trade piece. Moving Vatanen allows them to go from an 8-1 scenario to 7-3-1 and protect Silfverberg and Kane up front. It also allows them to shed Vatanen's nearly $5 mill per season long-term deal. We'd probably have to take Stoner in the deal to make the money work for them, but I'm actually ok with that because Stoner only has one year left on his deal. He'd slot in here as the 8th D, as long as we buyout Gorges.

 

In this scenario the D might look like this

McCabe Risto

Antipin Vatanen

Guhle Bogo

Falk Stoner

 

That is a very mobile D group with upside potential with legit depth players for only 23.9 mill (inlcuding Gorges buyout) vs the 25 mill we paid this season.

 

 

 

Ana would then lose Manson to expansion LV. None of this would actually be a problem for the Ducks. They would bring up Montour, Larsson and Theodore to their NHL team and still have Depres (if healthy), Bieksa, Fowler and Lindholm. What a luxury for the Ducks.

I went with Fowler due to his handiness, and 1 year left. Plus I really think Vantanen is rather bad with only a slight upside offensively

[TrueBlueGED]

Why? Dumping Franson and Kulikov are two pieces for dead weight already gone and replaced with Guhle and likely Anitpin. Falk outplayed Gorges, so why not buyout Gorges and save the $2 mill? That's 3 pieces of dead weight gone who GMTM already ackowledged are dead weight. Move on from at least one of the expensive failures at forward (Moulson and/or Ennis) by trade, waivers, expansion or if necessary buyout this season and then get rid of the other one next season. Don't re-sign Gionta. Trade one if not both of Larsson and Girgensons for a vet 4th line center who can win a draw and you have created roster space for at least 3 wing prospects in Bailey, Carrier and Baptiste.

 

I think GMTM agrees that the D was a train wreck this season, but with his playoff or bust next season pronouncement at the presser, he is asking for one more year of patience. Honestly, if we don't have 8 NHL D on the opening night roster (with none named Kulikov, Franson or Gorges) then GMTM has already failed the team.

You can't just buy out every contract you don't like. Sure Gorges could save us a few million this year, but then it costs us a few million next year when Eichel, Reinhart, and Kane are all due raises. It doesn't make sense. Moulson's buyout makes even less sense because it only saves a million next year when we really need it, at the expense of two more years of a hit. And let's not forget we're paying Cody Hodgson for awhile longer. Are you really jonesing for $5 million in dead money?

[GASabresIUFAN]

I went with Fowler due to his handiness, and 1 year left. Plus I really think Vantanen is rather bad with only a slight upside offensively

Interestingly, the Sabres now have an abundance of LD if Antipin is signed. McCabe, Falk, Gorges, Guhle and Antipin are all lefties. Only Bogo and Risto are righties. Vatanen is also a rightie. I'll agree that Vatanen had a slight step back this season with only 24 pts, and Corsi below 50. However, this I don't think this is part of a down trend. The guy is only 25 and was coming off years of 38 & 37 pts respectively with Corsi over 51. He also skates 22 minutes a might on a crowded and very talented Ana blueline, which shows me they trust him.

[GASabresIUFAN]

You can't just buy out every contract you don't like. Sure Gorges could save us a few million this year, but then it costs us a few million next year when Eichel, Reinhart, and Kane are all due raises. It doesn't make sense. Moulson's buyout makes even less sense because it only saves a million next year when we really need it, at the expense of two more years of a hit. And let's not forget we're paying Cody Hodgson for awhile longer. Are you really jonesing for $5 million in dead money?

Buying out Gorges costs 1.3 mill each of the next two years and won't be a factor in whether or not we can afford to re-sign Jack. Also Sam's next deal based on his production will be more like the deal Ennis received then anything close to what Jack is going to get. Furthermore Coho actually adds $450k to our cap in 2018-19 and only costs us 41k in cap next season.

 

Getting rid of Moulson in 2018-19 won't need to be done by buyout, He is a team looking to get to the cap floor dream. He only has a 2 mill salary and a 5 mill cap hit. He'd easily score 20+ pts on such a team, thereby making him a great and cheap vet acquisition. In fact, with only 5 mill left in salary over the next two years, GMTM might even be able to make a deal for him now.

[Drunkard]

Buying out Gorges costs 1.3 mill each of the next two years and won't be a factor in whether or not we can afford to re-sign Jack. Also Sam's next deal based on his production will be more like the deal Ennis received then anything close to what Jack is going to get. Furthermore Coho actually adds $450k to our cap in 2018-19 and only costs us 41k in cap next season.

 

Getting rid of Moulson in 2018-19 won't need to be done by buyout, He is a team looking to get to the cap floor dream. He only has a 2 mill salary and a 5 mill cap hit. He'd easily score 20+ pts on such a team, thereby making him a great and cheap vet acquisition. In fact, with only 5 mill left in salary over the next two years, GMTM might even be able to make a deal for him now.

 

There's still no need to buy out Gorges. He's only got one more year on his contract. Send him down to Rochester and have him available as an injury call up and then he's no longer a problem after next season. We're not in any danger of going over the cap for next year so why not take the full hit while we're easily able to absorb it?

Edited April 17, 2017 by Drunkard

[LGR4GM]

Buying out Gorges costs 1.3 mill each of the next two years and won't be a factor in whether or not we can afford to re-sign Jack. Also Sam's next deal based on his production will be more like the deal Ennis received then anything close to what Jack is going to get. Furthermore Coho actually adds $450k to our cap in 2018-19 and only costs us 41k in cap next season.

 

Getting rid of Moulson in 2018-19 won't need to be done by buyout, He is a team looking to get to the cap floor dream. He only has a 2 mill salary and a 5 mill cap hit. He'd easily score 20+ pts on such a team, thereby making him a great and cheap vet acquisition. In fact, with only 5 mill left in salary over the next two years, GMTM might even be able to make a deal for him now.

 

 

There's still no need to buy out Gorges. He's only got one more year on his contract. Send him down to Rochester and have him available as an injury call up and then he's no longer a problem after next season. We're not in any danger of going over the cap for next year so why not take the full hit while we're easily able to absorb it?

Asked and answered. Gorges will be the 6th defender. It will probably force Brady Austin or someone similar to stay in Rochester another year. This is a good thing. The best part of this last season is we didn't rush any players up to Buffalo. 

[Randall Flagg]

If Gorges is one of the best six defensemen on this team next year I'm not watching. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

If Gorges is one of the best six defensemen on this team next year I'm not watching. 

 

I see Angry Flagg is still around ...  :P

 

The Sabres will welcome you back watching the season after next, unless, of course, they decide to re-sign Gorges.

[Doohickie]

If Gorges is one of the best six defensemen on this team next year I'm not watching. 

 

If he's playing 6D it doesn't mean he's the 6th best available; it means he's a veteran on an NHL contract for one more year.  Even if he's 7D, you know in the rough-and-tumble NHL he'll be getting lots of minutes due to injuries.

[Sabre fan]

I think I like the idea of trading of our 1st pick (unless of course we by some fluke win the lottery and draft first which of course the NHL will never allow to happen) for a d-man from Anaheim. Kane is a proven commodity and is a natural scorer something this team (and every team for that matter) needs...a pick will give us yet another prospect for down the road but we need a good defenseman NOW... 

[GASabresIUFAN]

If Gorges is one of the best six defensemen on this team next year I'm not watching.

 

I agree. GMTM says he wants a fast possession/transition team. The key word is FAST and Gorges isn't. Gorges should never play another minute for the Sabres. Buy him out or send him down to tutor kids. I truly don't understand how anyone after watching him play the last two years would want him back. I fully understand this is the last year of his contract and a buyout would extend part of the liability into next season. However, if playoffs is the goal, keeping Gorges in the lineup is a step in the wrong direction.

 

No Gorges, No Franson, No Kulikov and if possible no Bogosian. Start fresh TM.

Edited April 17, 2017 by GASabresFan

[Randall Flagg]

If he's playing 6D it doesn't mean he's the 6th best available; it means he's a veteran on an NHL contract for one more year.  Even if he's 7D, you know in the rough-and-tumble NHL he'll be getting lots of minutes due to injuries.

I guess what I'm saying is if nobody is injured in training camp and we have Josh penciled in the opening night roster, even as number 6, the Sabres and I have some problems

 

I agree. GMTM says he wants a fast possession/transition team. The key word is FAST and Gorges isn't. Gorges should never play another minute for the Sabres. Buy him out or send him down to tutor kids. I truly don't understand how anyone after watching him play the last two years would want him back. I fully understand this is the last year of his contract and a buyout would extend part of the liability into next season. However, if playoffs is the goal, keeping Gorges in the lineup is a step in the wrong direction.

 

No Gorges, No Franson, No Kulikov and if possible no Bogosian. Start fresh TM.

This year is the year where it's time to get some guts and send down guys that shouldn't be up here anymore, like Gorges/Moulson. It's tough to do because of their veteran status but even captain Craig Rivet had it happen to him. We need to take that next step. 

 

(Though if we keep Dan, I'm cool w/ Franson coming back to play on the third pair with someone who can skate - that guy can pass the puck)

[nfreeman]

I will respectfully predict NFW on Franson returning.

[bunomatic]

Hansnfransons heart belongs to Toronto. He said as much. Buh By.

[GASabresIUFAN]

JBot is now in place.  He said he wants a puck possession uptempo team (aka the Sabres version of the Pens).  I suggested as much as a 50% roster turnover and given the system JBot wants to play, I am standing behind my earlier prediction.

 

Here are out top 23 (in games played plus backup goalie) from a year ago.  

 

Group 1 - Top signed players

1) Eichel - status: signed 

2) ROR - status: signed

3) Reinahrt - status: signed

4) KO - status: signed, but health is a huge question

5) Ristolainen - status: signed

6) McCabe - status: signed

7) Kane - status: signed

 

Group 2 - bad contracts- can JBot get us out from under one or more of these bad deals?

8) Moulson - signed

9) Bogo - signed 

10) Ennis - signed

11) Gorges - signed

 

Group 3 - Key RFAs

12) Lehner - RFA

13) Foligno - RFA

14) Larsson - RFA

15) Girgensons - RFA

 

Group 4 - UFAs

16) Gionta

17) Nilsson 

18) Kulikov

19) Franson

20) Grant

 

Group 5 - Other signed players

21) Delauriers

22) Falk

23) Carrier

 

Looking at this roster, I think a case can be made that everyone outside the top 6 might not return next season. All of Group 4 will likely be gone.  I can see Falk and DeLo not making the team next fall. I wonder how Larsson and big Z will fit in JBot's system?  Gorges' & Moulson's lack a speed are a huge issue for their futures here.  

Edited May 12, 2017 by GASabresFan

[Thorny]

With Reinhart now likely slated as a winger, it becomes more likely we sign and keep both Larsson and Girgensons, who can fill bottom 6 centre roles. If JBot doesn't think they are adequate for those roles, I suppose he'll replace them. I agree that the UFAs are likely gone. If we sign all the RFA forwards, that leaves us with 12 forwards listed above. 3 of them - Moulson, Ennis, Deslauriers - I think we'd be better served by somehow being able to replace them. Hopefully JBot and the new coach lean more towards guys like Baptiste, Bailey, and Nylander, if they are ready. Let's just pretend Nylander is ready to be Eichel's wing-man next season. Let's also assume that Antipin signs and Guhle is ready for the big club (big ifs):

 

Carrier - O'Reilly - Okposo

Nylander - Eichel - Reinhart

Kane - Larsson - Baptiste

Foligno - Girgensons - Bailey

 

Deslauriers

 

McCabe - Ristolainen

Falk - Antipin

Guhle - Bogosian

 

Gorges

 

Lehner

Backup

 

(Moulson and Ennis both somehow shipped out, if we are lucky.)

 

This is roughly what we are looking at right now. JB will need to bring in a capable top 4 D man with the ability to bump a guy like Falk to 7th D man status, and Gorges to 8. There's also room for improvement in the top 6 on the left side, especially if Nylander isn't ready for the big club. Bottom 6 could use an upgrade as well.

 

All in all. a good start to build on, but lots of room for JBot to improve the roster and put his stamp on it.

[Marions Piazza]

With Reinhart now likely slated as a winger, it becomes more likely we sign and keep both Larsson and Girgensons, who can fill bottom 6 centre roles. If JBot doesn't think they are adequate for those roles, I suppose he'll replace them. I agree that the UFAs are likely gone. If we sign all the RFA forwards, that leaves us with 12 forwards listed above. 3 of them - Moulson, Ennis, Deslauriers - I think we'd be better served by somehow being able to replace them. Hopefully JBot and the new coach lean more towards guys like Baptiste, Bailey, and Nylander, if they are ready. Let's just pretend Nylander is ready to be Eichel's wing-man next season. Let's also assume that Antipin signs and Guhle is ready for the big club (big ifs):

 

Carrier - O'Reilly - Okposo

Nylander - Eichel - Reinhart

Kane - Larsson - Baptiste

Foligno - Girgensons - Bailey

 

Deslauriers

 

McCabe - Ristolainen

Falk - Antipin

Guhle - Bogosian

 

Gorges

 

Lehner

Backup

 

(Moulson and Ennis both somehow shipped out, if we are lucky.)

 

This is roughly what we are looking at right now. JB will need to bring in a capable top 4 D man with the ability to bump a guy like Falk to 7th D man status, and Gorges to 8. There's also room for improvement in the top 6 on the left side, especially if Nylander isn't ready for the big club. Bottom 6 could use an upgrade as well.

 

All in all. a good start to build on, but lots of room for JBot to improve the roster and put his stamp on it.

Definitely making numerous assumptions here, I hope you are right about them.  I just have a few comments...

 

Carrier with RoR and Okposo?  Not Sure that works, while Carrier did show some flashes of speed, he totally lacked any finish, I would switch Kane and Carrier in your lineup.

 

Nylander showed nothing in Rochester that would suggest he is ready for the NHL next year, he needs another year in the A.  Is he even playing for Sweden in the IIHF this year?  I know his brother is, but not sure that I saw him.

 

I don't see ARod in your lineup, he played very well and I believe he has earned himself a bottom 6 role next year making Larsson/Girgensons expendable.

 

I agree that Baptiste/Bailey are probably ready, however, I see one of them as a part of a trade to bring in a top 3 D-man.

 

Until we can bring in another top 3 D-man, I think you have to separate Risto and McCabe to have better pairings.  Hopefully Antipin is what we all hope, I'd love nothing more than for him to step in Panarin style.

 

Highly doubt Ennis AND Moulson get moved, supposedly George McPhee owes the Sabres a favor and he has actually said as much, I saw a quote from him that he will contact the new Sabres GM right away, we might be able to get him to take one of Ennis/Moulson off our hands.