GM Tim Murray - Time for a serious conversation

[WildCard]

I was going to dismiss this third statement out of hand, but given his decisions on our defense from it's acquisition, to his failure to try to fix it during the season or at the deadline, to the emptying of the D prospect pipeline, I'm beginning to think it has merit.

He emptied the d prospect line? How?

[dudacek]

He emptied the d prospect line? How?

Can I save you both the time?

 

He traded away Zadorov, McNabb and Pysyk and only drafted Guhle to replace them.

Never mind that the only real missed chance he actually had to replenish the pipeline was when he picked Karabacek when Montour was still on the board, or that 25 other GMs whiffed on Montour as well.

Never mind that he replaced McNabb with Franson, that Kulikov is the same age as Pysyk and prior to this year was a better player, or that Zadorov got us O'Reilly.

Edited March 9, 2017 by dudacek

[Scottysabres]

Regardless as to how each of us feels about fixes to the roster, one thing is clear as a bell, rookies will line the forward ranks next season minus trades. If Tim Murray does not make a significant move to address defense, this team is in serious trouble, as in Eichel holding out to leave trouble.

[Brawndo]

Representatives from Sweden Hockey came to speak to the NHL GM Meetings today to stress their beliefs that younger Swedish players should develop in Sweden if they are going to be assigned to the AHL.

 

Nylander would be an example of this, Murray's Response was mentioned a SportNet Article

 

The biggest issue is control.

 

For example, there was no debate inside the Buffalo Sabres front office when it came to deciding where eighth-overall pick Alexander Nylander would play this season. He was assigned to AHL Rochester, where the organization could take a more active role in his development.

 

“There’s still one or two teams that are at the bottom (in Sweden) and have a chance to be relegated and if ownership and/or the fan base is not approving of that, it’s easy to sit kids,” said Sabres GM Tim Murray. “My coach in the American League may not like some of my young guys some nights, but I have the ability to tell him to suck it up and play them. So there’s that.”

 

 

The final quote is probably why the B Sens Owner was happy to get rid of him. A perfect example of ZFG

[dudacek]

If Tim Murray does not make a significant move to address defense, this team is in serious trouble, as in Eichel holding out to leave trouble.

Where's does this "Eichel's going to bolt" come from? Is it just Buffalo insecurity?

 

Who was the last player of Eichel's calibre to force his way out of town? Eric Lindros?

McKinnon and Landeskog and Duchene have stuck it out in Colorado. Taylor Hall was mad when they finally moved him from the mess in Edmonton and the others there kept coming back. Look what Tavares endured on the Island, Stamkos early on in Tampa. Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby - were they in better spots than Jack in year two? Nash was in Columbus for a long time. Kovalchuk with the Thrashers, Spezza in Ottawa, Lecavalier...

 

Seriously, where is the precedent?

The CBA is basically designed to force a guy to stick around for seven years even if he doesn't want to.

What is it about Jack that makes you think he'll be different?

Edited March 9, 2017 by dudacek

[WildCard]

Exactly, I've been saying that forever now. Players like Eichel do not leave teams, the CBA is built against it

[Thorny]

Where's does this "Eichel's going to bolt" come from? Is it just Buffalo insecurity?

Who was the last player of Eichel's calibre to force his way out of town? Eric Lindros?

McKinnon and Landeskog and Duchene have stuck it out in Colorado. Taylor Hall was mad when they finally moved him from the mess in Edmonton and the others there kept coming back. Look what Tavares endured on the Island, Stamkos early on in Tampa. Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby - were they in better spots than Jack in year two? Nash was in Columbus for a long time. Kovalchuk with the Thrashers, Spezza in Ottawa, Lecavalier...

Seriously, where is the precedent?

The CBA is basically designed to force a guy to stick around for seven years even if he doesn't want to.

What is it about Jack that makes you think he'll be different?

Excellent points all around.

 

One small note though - In year two, Crosby and Malkin's Pens actually made the playoffs. (And I think were out in 5 games)

[TrueBlueGED]

Where's does this "Eichel's going to bolt" come from? Is it just Buffalo insecurity?

 

Who was the last player of Eichel's calibre to force his way out of town? Eric Lindros?

McKinnon and Landeskog and Duchene have stuck it out in Colorado. Taylor Hall was mad when they finally moved him from the mess in Edmonton and the others there kept coming back. Look what Tavares endured on the Island, Stamkos early on in Tampa. Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby - were they in better spots than Jack in year two? Nash was in Columbus for a long time. Kovalchuk with the Thrashers, Spezza in Ottawa, Lecavalier...

 

Seriously, where is the precedent?

The CBA is basically designed to force a guy to stick around for seven years even if he doesn't want to.

What is it about Jack that makes you think he'll be different?

 

Because Buffalo. There is no other reason.

[bunomatic]

Happy Jack ain't goin nowhere

[Scottysabres]

Where's does this "Eichel's going to bolt" come from? Is it just Buffalo insecurity?

Who was the last player of Eichel's calibre to force his way out of town? Eric Lindros?

McKinnon and Landeskog and Duchene have stuck it out in Colorado. Taylor Hall was mad when they finally moved him from the mess in Edmonton and the others there kept coming back. Look what Tavares endured on the Island, Stamkos early on in Tampa. Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby - were they in better spots than Jack in year two? Nash was in Columbus for a long time. Kovalchuk with the Thrashers, Spezza in Ottawa, Lecavalier...

Seriously, where is the precedent?

The CBA is basically designed to force a guy to stick around for seven years even if he doesn't want to.

What is it about Jack that makes you think he'll be different?

I know it to be an option players have, although it's rarely utilized and never, at least to my knowledge, by such a high profile young player. That does not constitute it will not happen however. It is a possibility, even if near non-existent.

 

And the reason I even bother to broach the subject is due to what I call the "Edmonton Effect", where lessons were learned on failed rebuilds by not only ownership, but also the players, some of whom spent up to 5 + years wasting their careers due to inept management.

 

While Buffalo hasn't approached that level........yet. A great deal of faith had been put in Tim Murray and his plan. So far, and this is merely my view of the situation, the top 6 has 2 very good centers in Eichel and ROR. THE RW Has plenty of options, the LW is Kane and ?, and that's only if Kane is still here by end of next season.

 

The bottom 6 is in shambles quite honestly, near 0 production offensively with little help in special teams roles (I.e. PK).

 

The defense is 4 roster players and some depth players away from contention.

 

The goaltending, even if the D improves and there is more stable support from the forwards with a coaching strategy shift it's becoming clear Lehner isn't as consistent as we'd like.

 

We've already touched on the rookie injection about to occur. In short, there isn't a great deal of evidence to suggest the fortunes of this team will be much different the next couple of season.

[Sabre fan]

Here is a post on the Sabres thread over at TwoBillsDrive.com from a poster who claims to know the owner of the Binghamton Senators. Take it for what it's worth.

 

"The day the Sabres hired Murray I was able to speak with the Binghamton Senators owner, Tom Mitchell. I asked him if the Sabres were getting a good one and he laughed and said, "good riddance to him."

That is Ottawa's farm team...any person running that team does not have a say in who they get, they are sent down from the parent team, just like in Rochester where they get whoever the Sabres send down to them. I think GMTM has been fine...OReilly was  steal and obviously Myers needed change of scenery and getting Kane isn't so bad as some like to lead us to believe...Kulikov has huge potential but injuries have obviously held him back and that is/was not TM's fault. Bogo is far better then he has shown, and again that is not GMTM's fault. If Kulkov & Bogo played all games and played anywhere near their potential we'd be singing TM's praise and all happy. Injuries have been by far the number one killer this season , starting with jack and the D-men. Blysma's outdated "system" is number 2 on my list  

[PASabreFan]

Excellent points all around.

 

One small note though - In year two, Crosby and Malkin's Pens actually made the playoffs. (And I think were out in 5 games)

105 points, to be exact. And it's not a small point, it is THE point. The Pens precedent is the reason Pens Alumni Black and Sawyer and Pens fan Pegula went for the tank.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

105 points, to be exact. And it's not a small point, it is THE point. The Pens precedent is the reason Pens Alumni Black and Sawyer and Pens fan Pegula went for the tank.

 

I detested management for going that route.

 

If you correct in your analysis of managements decision (and I believe that you are correct) to follow the lead of the Penguins they have two shining examples.  The first time the Penguins landed Super Mario and it lead to cups in about 5 years (actually, I think a bit longer ... too lazy to look up when they drafted Mario).  Although, it seemed that the deal to bring in Ron and Ulf cemented the deal in '91.

 

The second yielded two of the top players in the league now and I don't recall a trade that appeared to make the big difference in them winning their 3rd cup.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Sabres Fan In NS

[Thorny]

105 points, to be exact. And it's not a small point, it is THE point. The Pens precedent is the reason Pens Alumni Black and Sawyer and Pens fan Pegula went for the tank.

And the Pens made the final in year 3. They will be a near impossible act to follow.

I detested management for going that route.

 

If you correct in your analysis of managements decision (and I believe that you are correct) to follow the lead of the Penguins they have two shining examples.  The first time the Penguins landed Super Mario and it lead to cups in about 5 years (actually, I think a bit longer ... too lazy to look up when they drafted Mario).  Although, it seemed that the deal to bring in Ron and Ulf cemented the deal in '91.

 

The second yielded two of the top players in the league now and I don't recall a trade that appeared to make the big difference in them winning their 3rd cup.

The Pens did have several notable transactions leading up to their Cup win in '09. They signed Ruslan Fedotenko in the summer before that Cup winning season, and traded for Bill Guerin and Chris Kunitz near the deadline. Guerin had 15 points in the playoffs, and Kunitz and Fedotenko 14 each.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

The Pens did have several notable transactions leading up to their Cup win in '09. They signed Ruslan Fedotenko in the summer before that Cup winning season, and traded for Bill Guerin and Chris Kunitz near the deadline. Guerin had 15 points in the playoffs, and Kunitz and Fedotenko 14 each.

 

So, there you go.

 

I really didn't pay much attention on 2009, but did in 1991 and 1992, since we lived in Pittsburgh at the time.  Good times.

[Jsixspd]

I have always thought Bylsma's hire was a bad move  - the squalid performance of the American team under Bylsma's command in the 2014 Olympics a clear memory when he was hired. 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/dan-bylsma-deserves-blame-for-usa-hockey-s-olympic-embarrassment-231757389.html

 

So how much of Bylsma's hire was on Murray, and how much on KimNTerry?     Who holds the most blame?

Edited March 10, 2017 by Jsixspd

[Wyldnwoody44]

I get this and want DD gone... But look at torts in the Olympics and then compare the blue jackets this year under the same man, while torts is a hot head and makes some. Questionable decisions, his team is playing well.

[WildCard]

I get this and want DD gone... But look at torts in the Olympics and then compare the blue jackets this year under the same man, while torts is a hot head and makes some. Questionable decisions, his team is playing well.

He did this in NY too. He's good for a season or two, then his gets old and players tune him out

[Wyldnwoody44]

He did this in NY too. He's good for a season or two, then his ###### gets old and players tune him out

This is how far we've fallen.... I'd gladly take a year or 2 of success and then have to re-tool.... Rather than watch the Sabres become the Bills....

[Sabre fan]

hell yeah...we'd take a season or two of success right about now...even knowing it wouldn't last

[North Buffalo]

hell yeah...we'd take a season or two of success right about now...even knowing it wouldn't last

Nice angio... that your's?  whoever..they are lucky...

[etiennep99]

Who will be the next coaches?  They often come out of the AHL.

 

Back in the day, we developed great coaches/hockey minds in Rochester. 

Guys like  Don Cherry, Lindy Ruff, Van Boxmeer, Mike Keenan, John Tortorella, Rick Dudley, etc.

Where are they now?   Who have we had coaching Rochester?

(From Wikipedia:)

• Ron Rolston (2011–13)
• Chadd Cassidy (2013–2015)
• Randy Cunneyworth (2015–2016)
• Dan Lambert (2016– )

 

Do you think that Mike Peca, Jay McKee, or Andrew Peters (not!) are going to save the day?

It doesn't look like we're going to find a new coach in-house....maybe Phil Housley can be brought home.

 

There are a lot of great hockey minds among former Sabres.  But they haven't done a lot for the parent club recently.

 

And say what you will about Scotty Bowman's lack of success here, he did draft some key players to help keep

the team *viable*: Andreychuk, Housley, Mike Ramsey, and Barrasso are four important players.    He blew up the team

and rebuilt it on the fly with winning teams until the '86-'87 season with Craig Ramsay as coach.    For the

forgetful, Scotty's record:

 

'79-'80: .688 winning percentage

'80-'81: .614

'81-'82:  .556

'83-'84:  .644

'84-'85:  .563

'85-'86:  .500

'86-'87:  .400  (which allowed Sabres to draft Pierre Turgeon)

 

Clearly, Perreault was the key cog for the Sabres. When he was gone, the Sabres were toast.

Compare to the Ken Holland's RedWings after Datsyuk retired.

 

So, again, where are the next great Sabres Hockey Minds?  Is GMTM too timid to have them around him?

Edited March 10, 2017 by etiennep99

[PromoTheRobot]

I have always thought Bylsma's hire was a bad move - the squalid performance of the American team under Bylsma's command in the 2014 Olympics a clear memory when he was hired.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/dan-bylsma-deserves-blame-for-usa-hockey-s-olympic-embarrassment-231757389.html

 

So how much of Bylsma's hire was on Murray, and how much on KimNTerry? Who holds the most blame?

I think DD's strong religious faith appealed the Pegulas, being religious folks themselves. Same with the new Bills coach Sean McDermott.

[PASabreFan]

I think DD's strong religious faith appealed the Pegulas, being religious folks themselves. Same with the new Bills coach Sean McDermott.

Wow. Hadn't heard that about DD. If true, it clearly adds to the case that Murray didn't really make the hire. No way he would consider a factor like that.

 

But you do what you gotta do to keep your job. I can't find the quote, but not long after he was hired (and maybe at his intro presser) Murray related the advice he got from his Uncle Bryan: you have a boss and that's the owner.

[dudacek]

Wow. Hadn't heard that about DD. If true, it clearly adds to the case that Murray didn't really make the hire. No way he would consider a factor like that.

 

But you do what you gotta do to keep your job. I can't find the quote, but not long after he was hired (and maybe at his intro presser) Murray related the advice he got from his Uncle Bryan: you have a boss and that's the owner.

I remember that quote.