MattPie Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) Ugh, this is all pretty dispiriting. Let's lay it out: - DD's system appears to be Chip, chase, and grind. The leopard doesn't change its spots. - There are players yearning to break free and, well, play. - If this keeps going South, would GMTM bring in a possession coach or DD his "right" coach and any replacement will be more of the same? - Do the Pegulas feel the same way? There's nothing to say they can't fire GMTM and DD and bring in a new regime. I will say I'm not all that interested in watching the games lately. If grinding is the look of the Sabres going forward, that's not going to get any more desirable. Fire DD; if this is GMTM's plan, fire him too. If this is the Pegulas' plan, I may just give up on the team. Edited February 13, 2017 by MattPie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 Anyone notice the B's are undefeated with a surge in scoring since Julien was fired? Didn't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted February 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 Anyone notice the B's are undefeated with a surge in scoring since Julien was fired? Didn't think so. How many games have they played, three? One against a team that's also about to fire its coach (MTL)? It helps that their shooting percentage in the three games is double their season average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 The Pegs they are not bad owners, just on a learning curve in both leagues. Gonna take some time to figure out who the really good GMs and coaches are and I think the process is moving forward despite our angst as fans. Ryan and Blysma need to go because they are myopic coaches that dont know how to create systems for the talent they have. Jack is a bit of a prima dona and needs someone who can accentuate his talent while getting him to play a more all around game. Hence why GMTM loved McDavid and his attitude. Still Jack needs a little more coaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 I have to agree with the general sentiment on here, I don't think you was calling out a specific player or Jack, but as it seemed there were many plays like Jack's that did not lead to a goal but rather a turnover and sustained zone pressure. The team does not have enough talent to pull off some of the plays they routinely attempt and they get burned. Lehner is correct that they need to be grinding (bc they aren't talented enough) team that stays within the structure to be successful. It's really the only way. Does anyone really think that with the right coach this team is substantially better? Is this just a young team going through growing pains? tbh the best teams in history haven't needed a coach to enforce accountability, that has to come from within the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 Nice to see Lehner showing some leadership. Rob Ray has made the same statement - more quietly - multiple times in the broadcast. The fact that it has to be made reflects on both the maturity of the players and the lack of authority of the coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted February 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 I have to agree with the general sentiment on here, I don't think you was calling out a specific player or Jack, but as it seemed there were many plays like Jack's that did not lead to a goal but rather a turnover and sustained zone pressure. The team does not have enough talent to pull off some of the plays they routinely attempt and they get burned. Lehner is correct that they need to be grinding (bc they aren't talented enough) team that stays within the structure to be successful. It's really the only way. Does anyone really think that with the right coach this team is substantially better? Is this just a young team going through growing pains? tbh the best teams in history haven't needed a coach to enforce accountability, that has to come from within the room. I do believe this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 The Sabres roster is filled with grinders, ROR, Kane, Okposo, Foligno, Girgensons, Bailey, even Ennis I would say. DDs system is tailored for this roster. Jack doesn't like it? Too bad kid, learn to play the right way... you haven't done anything in this league that makes you too good to play a system. I agree with what Lehner is saying, I don't want ut coming from my goalie tho. ROR or Gio or some other vet needs to be calling these guys out... that lack of leadership is a bigger concern than the young kids ignoring the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted February 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 This really is the season from hell, eh? We were all convinced we'd be gunning for a playoff spot right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonHextallsShoulderPads Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 are they ignoring it or are they just incapable of executing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 I have to agree with the general sentiment on here, I don't think you was calling out a specific player or Jack, but as it seemed there were many plays like Jack's that did not lead to a goal but rather a turnover and sustained zone pressure. The team does not have enough talent to pull off some of the plays they routinely attempt and they get burned. Lehner is correct that they need to be grinding (bc they aren't talented enough) team that stays within the structure to be successful. It's really the only way. Does anyone really think that with the right coach this team is substantially better? Is this just a young team going through growing pains? tbh the best teams in history haven't needed a coach to enforce accountability, that has to come from within the room. How do you define "substantially"? Over the course of the full season I think Bylsma probably has them ~8 points worse than a top coach, give or take. So at this point, maybe 5 points? I think that's substantial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 The Sabres roster is filled with grinders, ROR, Kane, Okposo, Foligno, Girgensons, Bailey, even Ennis I would say. DDs system is tailored for this roster. Jack doesn't like it? Too ###### bad kid, learn to play the right way... you haven't done anything in this league that makes you too good to play a system. I agree with what Lehner is saying, I don't want ut coming from my goalie tho. ROR or Gio or some other vet needs to be calling these guys out... that lack of leadership is a bigger concern than the young kids ignoring the system. LOL There is no thing as "tough luck kid" in this situation. As has been pointed out, and rightly so, coaches don't win these battles, and for good reason. You don't crash an entire multi-million dollar sports franchise in an effort to bring in a franchise player to build around only to tell that franchise player its the coaches way or hit the bricks kid. That is laughable at its best, down right criminal and beyond at its worst. You build the system to suit the players talents nit the other way around. This kid is what the Sabres are building around, not the coach. The solution was there before it ever began. Get the right coach for the job, Bylsma isn't it if he can't muster enough testosterone to impose his will and way on the roster. The battle has now spilled over in to the public domain with reports this was a problem at his last gig as well. It's fast coming to a head on this and I don't see Eichel being traded. What do you think that leaves solution wise? The writing is on the wall, it's not a matter of if, but when. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustache of God Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 LOL There is no thing as "tough luck kid" in this situation. As has been pointed out, and rightly so, coaches don't win these battles, and for good reason. You don't crash an entire multi-million dollar sports franchise in an effort to bring in a franchise player to build around only to tell that franchise player its the coaches way or hit the bricks kid. That is laughable at its best, down right criminal and beyond at its worst. You build the system to suit the players talents nit the other way around. This kid is what the Sabres are building around, not the coach. The solution was there before it ever began. Get the right coach for the job, Bylsma isn't it if he can't muster enough testosterone to impose his will and way on the roster. The battle has now spilled over in to the public domain with reports this was a problem at his last gig as well. It's fast coming to a head on this and I don't see Eichel being traded. What do you think that leaves solution wise? The writing is on the wall, it's not a matter of if, but when. A+. We tanked for Eichel, not Hot Daniel. Find a coach who utilizes the player(s) we suffered for. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 For those who haven't seen the interview: https://www.nhl.com/sabres/video/robin-lehner-postgame-21217/t-277437090/c-49361303 Very well said, and overdue, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 Kopitar and Carter eventually fell in line with Suter's chip and grind system, and they won a few Cups. There's no reason Eichel and Co. can't do the same, although Bylsma is no Suter and Lehner isn't Quick, and there's no Drew Doughty, other than that we're right there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 Kopitar and Carter eventually fell in line with Suter's chip and grind system, and they won a few Cups. There's no reason Eichel and Co. can't do the same, although Bylsma is no Suter and Lehner isn't Quick, and there's no Drew Doughty, other than that we're right there! Eichel is not those players. He's fast and needs to play with speed. We should play like the Hawks, Stars, Leafs, or Julien led Bruins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 are they ignoring it or are they just incapable of executing it? I'm going to say both. Ignoring it because they can't execute it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 Interestingly, the player that seemed to lose the most relative ice time last night was Kane. The Eichel line was yanked after each goal right after a PK & when they came back out it was typically Okposo w/ Reinhart & Eichel & at least once it was Ennis. Kane obviously wasn't glued to the bench but he was used much more like Carrier &/or Bailey than his normal out w/ his line every time for a full long shift + PK & 2PP duty. Lehner's comments would appear to be targeting Eichel, but he didn't lose shifts. He also wasn't the one to lose the puck near the blue line setting Jack up for the horrible puck loss near his own goal line. The guy that happened to was Kane. & for whatever it is worth, O'Reilly is definitely still bothered by the groin. His skating was labored & on that 2nd Vancouver goal, he was standing gassed at the end of a long shift not picking up the slotman who scored like he normally would've. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 OK now I want Lehner as captain... Let him kick teams as s. No problem with statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 Article on it http://thehockeywriters.com/sabres-showing-signs-of-locker-room-turmoil/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 It does seem like Lehner was referring to Eichel, innit? Not sure how I feel about this. While the best player on the team needs to buy into the system in order for the system to work, he also needs some freedom to be creative. OTOH, if his teammates are PO'd, it's probably because this is a consistent issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 Kopitar and Carter eventually fell in line with Suter's chip and grind system, and they won a few Cups. There's no reason Eichel and Co. can't do the same, although Bylsma is no Suter and Lehner isn't Quick, and there's no Drew Doughty, other than that we're right there! Bylsma's system has as much in common with Sutter's as a chihuahua has with a German Shepard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 LOL There is no thing as "tough luck kid" in this situation. As has been pointed out, and rightly so, coaches don't win these battles, and for good reason. You don't crash an entire multi-million dollar sports franchise in an effort to bring in a franchise player to build around only to tell that franchise player its the coaches way or hit the bricks kid. That is laughable at its best, down right criminal and beyond at its worst. You build the system to suit the players talents nit the other way around. This kid is what the Sabres are building around, not the coach. The solution was there before it ever began. Get the right coach for the job, Bylsma isn't it if he can't muster enough testosterone to impose his will and way on the roster. The battle has now spilled over in to the public domain with reports this was a problem at his last gig as well. It's fast coming to a head on this and I don't see Eichel being traded. What do you think that leaves solution wise? The writing is on the wall, it's not a matter of if, but when. Well stated. PLUS, those wringing their hands worrying about whether Bylsma is teaching what Murray wants are forgetting that Bylsma was a DISTANT 2nd in the search for a new HC. Babcock doesn't coach the boring game that Bylsma does. He is ALL about possession & limiting the other team's ice (his Detroit team was arguably better at getting away w/ interference than Joisey was/is. THAT was who/what Murray wanted. That he won't throw Bylsma under the bus yet is disconcerting, but not damning. Loyalty (to a degree) is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 Interestingly, the player that seemed to lose the most relative ice time last night was Kane. The Eichel line was yanked after each goal right after a PK & when they came back out it was typically Okposo w/ Reinhart & Eichel & at least once it was Ennis. Kane obviously wasn't glued to the bench but he was used much more like Carrier &/or Bailey than his normal out w/ his line every time for a full long shift + PK & 2PP duty. Lehner's comments would appear to be targeting Eichel, but he didn't lose shifts. He also wasn't the one to lose the puck near the blue line setting Jack up for the horrible puck loss near his own goal line. The guy that happened to was Kane. & for whatever it is worth, O'Reilly is definitely still bothered by the groin. His skating was labored & on that 2nd Vancouver goal, he was standing gassed at the end of a long shift not picking up the slotman who scored like he normally would've. One Eichel PP notwithstanding, Bylsma does not bench guys for play. Does not seem to be in his DNA. Does not rip them in the media, does not appear to play head games, nor kick their . No visible messages are sent. He's strictly a tactical coach manoeuvring chess pieces, not human beings, and his tactics appear ineffective. He has been given a talented group and has yet to mould them into a cohesive, consistent unit. Related aside: watched Miracle last night. Again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonHextallsShoulderPads Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) I'm going to say both. Ignoring it because they can't execute it. I'm going to agree with you as well. When he criticizes players for extra dekes and long shifts, it seems like guys know they can't execute the plan so they're trying to over-compensate for shortcomings. Edited February 13, 2017 by RonHextallsShoulderPads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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