Jerry Jabber Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Tim Murray stated he was not looking at a five year rebuild with this team as he traded assets to get players like ROR, Kane, Bogosian and Lehner to make the Sabres a better team sooner than later. So far, the results have not been great. Granted, the Sabres best player [Eichel] was out with a high ankle sprain to start the season and other players have had their share of injuries. Did Murray pull the plug on the tank job too soon? Should Murray have tried tanking for another year or two to be able to draft in the Top 5 for one or two more years? Should Murray have kept all of those draft picks instead of trying to accelerating the rebuild process? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Not sure they actually have... not full blown this year but still stankish... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted January 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Not sure they actually have... not full blown this year but still stankish... I agree with that. I think the way the Sabres are playing, they'll draft in the Top 10 again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxhurtz Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Tim Murray stated he was not looking at a five year rebuild with this team as he traded assets to get players like ROR, Kane, Bogosian and Lehner to make the Sabres a better team sooner than later. So far, the results have not been great. Granted, the Sabres best player [Eichel] was out with a high ankle sprain to start the season and other players have had their share of injuries. Did Murray pull the plug on the tank job too soon? Should Murray have tried tanking for another year or two to be able to draft in the Top 5 for one or two more years? Should Murray have kept all of those draft picks instead of trying to accelerating the rebuild process? I agree another Top 5 pick in the draft would be very helpful for the rebuild. But I think we have to be patient as rebuilds take time. The Penguins had five years where they finished between 58 - 69 points. Same can be said about the Blackhawks. I know GMTM was hoping it wouldn't take five years, but it looks like it's going to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 You don't have to tank to draft good players. With this loss to the Leafs they can kiss their playoff hopes goodbye IMO. At least GMTM will have a plan at the deadline... unloading guys like Kulikov, Gionta, Franson and anybody else he doesn't see as a long term fit. He can acquire more picks and continue to build through the draft which sounds boring, but it's how you build a team that can contend year in and year out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 No. They started it too soon. The correct time to have started it would've been "never." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 I think it's an interesting question, but also one that's really hard to answer (which is probably why it's interesting). Would we even be asking the question if the acceleration of the rebuild had been more effective? For instance, if Kane was scoring 30 while finishing Eichel's feeds and Bogo was locking down a quality 2nd pair, and Lehner was establishing himself as a top-5 goaltender...are we sitting here wondering if trying to push it along was the wrong choice? I don't think the strategy to get better faster was inherently the wrong one, but rather, Murray simply had the wrong targets when executing the strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Yes, but only in that we should have held on to more of our 2015 draft picks. I'd rather have a lot more young talent right now than the duds Murray was targeting the last 2+ years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Not sure they actually have... not full blown this year but still stankish... The original post mentions the draft picks moved in trades that brought in the younger veterans in an effort to help us win now- Kane, ROR, Bogo, Lehner. From that standpoint we're post-tank because GMTM has expended future assets for current players. That was a sign that GMTM has ended the tank, the fact that the Sabres still suck notwithstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Not sure they actually have... not full blown this year but still stankish... Exactly. The tank is not over. Just another example of GM Tim Murray's inability to prove himself as a successful GM. I realize there is a drum beat with everyone of my posts, but I urge all who read them to pause for a moment and consider the evidence currently at hand. He was looking for a 3 year turn around, but at what price? While I'm not concerned about losing Zadorov, Grigeranko,or Compher considering ROR was the return, I am concerned about losing the draft picks in the Kane/Bogo and Lehner trades. So far, Bogo has been a disaster and Kane is an off ice disaster waiting to happen. Not worth the price of admission for roughly 20 - 25 goals a season. Lehner, there is already a thread on him. Rochester is sub par as well. I'd rather have the assets (defense please) getting ready to join and change the farm teams fortunes while continuing development. But, what's done cannot be undone. Another season I suspect is coming of sub par hockey before we turn a corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Yes, but only in that we should have held on to more of our 2015 draft picks. I'd rather have a lot more young talent right now than the duds Murray was targeting the last 2+ years. Yeah, this part. But understand, most of those draft picks still wouldn't be contributing. I think it's an interesting question, but also one that's really hard to answer (which is probably why it's interesting). Would we even be asking the question if the acceleration of the rebuild had been more effective? For instance, if Kane was scoring 30 while finishing Eichel's feeds and Bogo was locking down a quality 2nd pair, and Lehner was establishing himself as a top-5 goaltender...are we sitting here wondering if trying to push it along was the wrong choice? I don't think the strategy to get better faster was inherently the wrong one, but rather, Murray simply had the wrong targets when executing the strategy. See, here's the thing: Every time you commit to a player (either trading for or signing to a contract), you take a gamble. You may look at a player and have a valid evaluation based on past performance, but that doesn't guarantee future performance. So even if you think it was time to start building in earnest, we've had a few setbacks, primarily injury-driven. So had Kuli not gotten injured on a door in the rink, had Bogo not suffered his injuries, they both might be playing at a level higher than we've seen to date (i.e., if they weren't banged up). It's a game of chance and when a lot of these trades were made they were acclaimed by the members of this forum mostly, but no one , not Murray, not us, not the players, could have looked forward in time and seen the injuries and how they would have affected the players even after they started playing again. I'm not saying that the team's current state compared to expectations is purely because of injury, but they've played a major role in disrupting the flow of the season for the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 The Bogo injuries were absolutely foreseeable as they've been a staple of his career. Kulikov, not so much, as he's been mostly healthy since entering the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 One option should be "They tanked incorrectly." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) No. They started it too soon. The correct time to have started it would've been "never." This is a great post and sorry, but I didn't remember you being such an anti-tanker. There were very few of us. Edited January 18, 2017 by Sabres Fan In NS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 One option should be "They tanked incorrectly." It is as good a way of putting it as any I've seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 It is as good a way of putting it as any I've seen. They even suck at sucking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 ridiculous poll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) They even suck at sucking.This would be the epitome of the Buffalo sports fan conscience and would be funny.........if it weren't true :( Edit: and sorry promo, but swamp one upped ya. Edited January 18, 2017 by Lucky E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 This is a great post and sorry, but I didn't remember you being such an anti-tanker. There were very few of us. There were actually MANY anti-tankers prior to instigating the tank but few pro-tankers. (DeLuca & Liger, IIRC, as the 2 most "vocal" proponents prior to Pomminstein going bye-bye.) After the bloody thing was initiated by jettisoning the rest of the "core" (minus Stafford, you ALWAYS need a friggin' Staff-infection apparently. :wallbash:), several of us reluctantly decided to support fully committing to it because the other outcome was becoming the pre-Babcock Loafs or Garth Snow' s Isles. And as is totally fitting, apparently, the ONLY year the Isles weren't wallowing in mediocrity at best was the year Buffalo held their 1st. :doh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacque Richard Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Five year rebuild? Murray should be sent packing if that's the case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 There were actually MANY anti-tankers prior to instigating the tank but few pro-tankers. (DeLuca & Liger, IIRC, as the 2 most "vocal" proponents prior to Pomminstein going bye-bye.) After the bloody thing was initiated by jettisoning the rest of the "core" (minus Stafford, you ALWAYS need a friggin' Staff-infection apparently. :wallbash:), several of us reluctantly decided to support fully committing to it because the other outcome was becoming the pre-Babcock Loafs or Garth Snow' s Isles. And as is totally fitting, apparently, the ONLY year the Isles weren't wallowing in mediocrity at best was the year Buffalo held their 1st. :doh: Hey I get that, but once it started very few stuck to the opinion that it was a mistake and wrong. Also, Pomminstein sighting ... :flirt: ;) Five year rebuild? Murray should be sent packing if that's the case How long did you think it would take? We are in year 3 now, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Hey I get that, but once it started very few stuck to the opinion that it was a mistake and wrong. Also, Pomminstein sighting ... :flirt: ;) How long did you think it would take? We are in year 3 now, right? It was always a mistake because it was unnecessary, but the bigger mistake would've been to sell off & then end up w/ Strome or less. And an even bigger mistake would've been to keep Regier in charge of the rebuild. And they should be in the playoffs THIS year. They aren't & won't be. Bylsma must go at the AS break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacque Richard Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I guess everybody should be patient then. So after five yrs they will competitive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 This is a great post and sorry, but I didn't remember you being such an anti-tanker. There were very few of us. The few, the proud... It should of course be noted that the tank was not GMTM's idea -- he inherited it from Darcy "time for some suffering" Regier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 The few, the proud... It should of course be noted that the tank was not GMTM's idea -- he inherited it from Darcy "time for some suffering" Regier. TM embraced it though. And then he made a bunch of trades to build a truly awful team around Jack Eichel. The Tank worked. We got our franchise player. The trouble is, we also got a GM that doesn't know what to do next. And here we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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