Drunkard Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 This opinion will probably get me digitally tarred and feathered, but that seems to be the point of this thread so bring it on. I still think the Ryan O'Reilly trade was a bad move. Sure the team has been painfully devoid of center talent since 7/1/07 but the time to fix it was back then and not after we had finally restocked the cupboards through tanking for Reinhart and Eichel. I know he's everyone's hero and he has all the intangibles/compete of Jonathan Toews (without the winning of course) and he's been able to help shelter our young centers but our defense has been a show since Zadorov left and we're still reeling in that department. Imagine a defensive lineup of: Zadorov Ristolainen McCabe Bogosian Kulikov Gorges/Franson How awesome would it be to have a top pairing of these stud bookends for the next decade? How about only having a single slow moving defenseman in the lineup and they also happen to get sheltered 3rd pairing minutes. No more shackling Ristolainen with Gorges. Hell, we'd have 3 better lefties on the roster so Gorges could be send packing for a 2nd round pick or be used as a #7 guy/injury fill in. We probably wouldn't have traded for Gorges to begin with in all likelihood but I'd rather not get into the whole butterfly wing flapping causing a hurricane on the other side of the world type nonsense because that could send us down a rabbit hole of endless possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 What, exactly, is it about Zadorov that makes you long for him? He's a lot closer to bust than stud bookend. I completely understand lamenting the current state of our defense, but Zadorov is not the droid you are looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 What, exactly, is it about Zadorov that makes you long for him? He's a lot closer to bust than stud bookend. I completely understand lamenting the current state of our defense, but Zadorov is not the droid you are looking for. I liked the way he played in his short time here. He has size, toughness, a hard shot, and a touch of nasty to his game. That and I really liked the fact that we drafted a RHD and a LHD in the first round of the same draft and I thought it would be great for them to play and develop together. That went out the door in order to get Mr. Toews light without the wins which was desperately needed for years, but not so critical once we had Reinhart and Eichel in the pipeline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 I liked the way he played in his short time here. He has size, toughness, a hard shot, and a touch of nasty to his game. That and I really liked the fact that we drafted a RHD and a LHD in the first round of the same draft and I thought it would be great for them to play and develop together. That went out the door in order to get Mr. Toews light without the wins which was desperately needed for years, but not so critical once we had Reinhart and Eichel in the pipeline.Size toughness grit aka he can't skate or move the puck up the ice ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Size toughness grit aka he can't skate or move the puck up the ice ;) I agree. Good thing we grabbed that silky smooth Josh Gorges to replace him. That guy must do wonders for our possession metrics. I used to mistake him for Bobby Orr but then I had to stop dropping acid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) I agree. Good thing we grabbed that silky smooth Josh Gorges to replace him. That guy must do wonders for our possession metrics. I used to mistake him for Bobby Orr but then I had to stop dropping acid.Well just because you lack one doesn't mean you have the other I challenge anyone to name a good defensemen that is built on size, grit, and toughness. Think you'll find that each of the names that jump to your mind, Buff, Weber, etc, are all great skaters who have up ice vision. This is what makes them successful. Meanwhile there are plenty of example of smaller guys with these traits, Karlsson, Doughty, Keith, etc, that are good despite not being big or gritty or tough Big, gritty, tough is just another way of saying he's a defensive defensmen which is another way of saying that player sucks Edited January 6, 2017 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 I liked the way he played in his short time here. He has size, toughness, a hard shot, and a touch of nasty to his game. That and I really liked the fact that we drafted a RHD and a LHD in the first round of the same draft and I thought it would be great for them to play and develop together. That went out the door in order to get Mr. Toews light without the wins which was desperately needed for years, but not so critical once we had Reinhart and Eichel in the pipeline. So you love the...concept of Zadorov? :p Zadorov's physical tools were always tremendous, but unfortunately, he appears to be saddled with Bogosian-esque hockey sense. Though he's still young and won't be 22 until a few months from now, he was always seen as a boom-or-bust type prospect, and the lack of real forward development in his game isn't exactly cause for optimism. He's 5th on Colorado in ice time among defensemen, 6th in possession metrics among Dmen playing at least 10 games, and is generating less than a shot per game. And Colorado's blue line is worse than ours. Thinking Zadorov would be the solution to our problems is nothing more than a blind prayer...and given your religious sensibilities, I wouldn't have expected you to want to rely on that :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted January 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 I liked the way he played in his short time here. He has size, toughness, a hard shot, and a touch of nasty to his game. That and I really liked the fact that we drafted a RHD and a LHD in the first round of the same draft and I thought it would be great for them to play and develop together. That went out the door in order to get Mr. Toews light without the wins which was desperately needed for years, but not so critical once we had Reinhart and Eichel in the pipeline. If ROR was Toews' age and played on the Hawks during that time, they still win 3 cups. ROR is a better player right now. The lack of team success, in this coaching system on a team that's 1.5 years post-brutal-tank, should not be held against ROR, who is an incredible hockey player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 -"Defensive defenseman" is simply a term used by people to describe a bad defenseman in a way that gives value to that player. I'm going to take this to the Stats thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) If ROR was Toews' age and played on the Hawks during that time, they still win 3 cups. ROR is a better player right now. The lack of team success, in this coaching system on a team that's 1.5 years post-brutal-tank, should not be held against ROR, who is an incredible hockey player. Are you saying Chicago with ROR instead of Toews still wins 3 cups or putting ROR on that team that still has Toews would win? The first is an interesting argument but there's no way to prove it either way. The second is a duh statement of epic proportions so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant the former. I'm not holding O'Reilly responsible for this sorry team, but it's not like he was busy winning cups in Colorado either. He's Toews Light because he gets the same compliments. High character, defensively responsible, strong play along the boards, leadership, responsible on the back check, and the always critical intangibles. All good qualities for sure but after tanking for Reinhart and Eichel it wasn't necessary to go after him after the fact. Well just because you lack one doesn't mean you have the other I challenge anyone to name a good defensemen that is built on size, grit, and toughness. Think you'll find that each of the names that jump to your mind, Buff, Weber, etc, are all great skaters who have up ice vision. This is what makes them successful. Meanwhile there are plenty of example of smaller guys with these traits, Karlsson, Doughty, Keith, etc, that are good despite not being big or gritty or tough Big, gritty, tough is just another way of saying he's a defensive defensmen which is another way of saying that player sucks Whatever. I'm not a scout and I don't get paid to evaluate players. I used the words I did because that's what I liked about him while he was here and I'm somewhat of a knuckle dragger who appreciates the violent part of the game so that's what I posted about. You're acting like Zadorov looks like Cody Franson out there though and that's not how I remember it at all. I haven't watched him in Colorado but when he played here he seems to be a decent skater and he certainly had the potential to improve further. So you love the...concept of Zadorov? :P Zadorov's physical tools were always tremendous, but unfortunately, he appears to be saddled with Bogosian-esque hockey sense. Though he's still young and won't be 22 until a few months from now, he was always seen as a boom-or-bust type prospect, and the lack of real forward development in his game isn't exactly cause for optimism. He's 5th on Colorado in ice time among defensemen, 6th in possession metrics among Dmen playing at least 10 games, and is generating less than a shot per game. And Colorado's blue line is worse than ours. Thinking Zadorov would be the solution to our problems is nothing more than a blind prayer...and given your religious sensibilities, I wouldn't have expected you to want to rely on that :P Maybe so, but even without the benefit of hindsight I could see that shipping of Zadorov left us with a giant hole on the left side of our blue line. All to get a #1 center to shelter the young blue chippers we threw away 2 seasons for because people were scared we'd become Edmonton. Now it takes multiple injuries in order for Reinhart to even get a chance at center. Edited January 6, 2017 by Drunkard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHawerchuk10 Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 -The automatic "delay of game" penalty for a puck shot over the glass in the defensive zone should be abolished. -The "jumping into the glass" celebration is stupid and unoriginal. -Thomas Vanek isn't lazy. -In retrospect, John Gurtler doesn't seem so bad. -Visiting Sabre fans are 2nd only to Visiting Leaf fans in obnoxiousness -The Sabre team that had the best chance to win the Cup who didn't make it to the Finals was the '01 team, and not the '06 team -Tim Murray didn't get enough back in trades for our high draft picks/prospects -Ted Nolan is a better coach for this team than Dan Bylsma -I would still hate Patrick Kane even if he played for the Sabres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woods-racer Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) -The automatic "delay of game" penalty for a puck shot over the glass in the defensive zone should be abolished. -The "jumping into the glass" celebration is stupid and unoriginal. -Thomas Vanek isn't lazy. -In retrospect, John Gurtler doesn't seem so bad. -Visiting Sabre fans are 2nd only to Visiting Leaf fans in obnoxiousness -The Sabre team that had the best chance to win the Cup who didn't make it to the Finals was the '01 team, and not the '06 team -Tim Murray didn't get enough back in trades for our high draft picks/prospects -Ted Nolan is a better coach for this team than Dan Bylsma -I would still hate Patrick Kane even if he played for the Sabres On the bolded, I completely disagree. That little rule has sped up the pace of the game and added more offense during the clutch and grab era than any other rule in place or proposed, in my mind. On Nolan vs. Bylsma, I agree that Nolan would have more wins. But I do think Dan is laying the foundation for fundamental NHL hockey for the future that Ted is not capable of doing. Edited January 6, 2017 by Woods-Racer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 I too like the automatic delay of game rule, although I don't think its effect has been quite as substantial as WR posits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 -The automatic "delay of game" penalty for a puck shot over the glass in the defensive zone should be abolished. Every time this comes up, I can see and hear a tearful Ryan Miller being interviewed after Game 7 of the ECF in 2006 - calling the rule BS. And who got nicked? Campbell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 This opinion will probably get me digitally tarred and feathered, but that seems to be the point of this thread so bring it on. I still think the Ryan O'Reilly trade was a bad move. [ I'm not disaligned with some of the concepts in your argument, but it in my view doesn't apply here due to your evaluations of O'Reilly and Zadorov. O'Reilly is so much more valuable in terms of what he can contribute to our team, on the scoresheet, and defensively, never mind the intangibles. Forwards contribute to overall team defence as well. O'Reilly is so much more of a impact player, that I would wager he's benefitting our team defence more than Zadorov would. I agree with your thought that it would be better to have a stud D than another good centre, but I think the roles were miscast. I agree. Good thing we grabbed that silky smooth Josh Gorges to replace him. That guy must do wonders for our possession metrics. I used to mistake him for Bobby Orr but then I had to stop dropping acid. :lol: This was a great post, honestly. Got me laughing. If ROR was Toews' age and played on the Hawks during that time, they still win 3 cups. ROR is a better player right now. The lack of team success, in this coaching system on a team that's 1.5 years post-brutal-tank, should not be held against ROR, who is an incredible hockey player. Good take. **On the point about Reinhart not even playing centre if not for multiple injuries: that's on Bylsma. It's not ROR's fault Reinhart wasn't at centre, there are plenty of ways of getting him there. Whether that's 3 balanced lines or ROR shifting to LW, where he had his best statistical season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Anthem singers matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blugold43 Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 they should make the goal bigger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubkev Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 I'd prefer 7.5 goals per game over 5.5 goals per game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woods-racer Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Hot Anthem singers matter. FIFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 They should have more 1 pm games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 I don't miss the politics thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 i like the shootout. I would even be ok with it deciding all but series winning games in the playoffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tondas Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) Push the nets all the way back to the end boards so there is no "behind the net" just like in some table hockey games. Curve the boards at the net so when a player fires the puck in it shoots right out into the slot if the goalie can't get to it. No cute D to D passes behind the net. No Gretzky's Office. Edited January 8, 2017 by Tondas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Whoa, the last two are doozies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 I think Lehner is our #1 goalie for years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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