3putt Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I went with the other Ramsay. It was close between him and Dave, but Andrechucks highest moment occurred as a Bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubkev Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 OK thats crap Alex had 9 votes as of 5 was working overnite so someone is manipulating your numbers. Bunch of people deleted their votes and switched them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 OK thats crap Alex had 9 votes as of 5 was working overnite so someone is manipulating your numbers. The same hackers that Trump suspects, maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Just wondering ... ... do any current Sabres make the cut? ROR? Maybe at 50(ish). Take it for what it's worth since I've only been watching since the early 90s, but I think O'Reilly should be way higher than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubkev Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Take it for what it's worth since I've only been watching since the early 90s, but I think O'Reilly should be way higher than that. Only if you go based on total career. This is time spent as a Sabre only. At least, that's the impression that I get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Only if you go based on total career. This is time spent as a Sabre only. At least, that's the impression that I get. I've taken it as best player, not best Sabre. The length of service really only matters for the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I've taken it as best player, not best Sabre. The length of service really only matters for the latter. Nope Hawerchuk (among others needing consideration) would need to be 4 if it were merely a discussion of best player regardless of their output as a Sabre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Hoss stated on post #27 of the thread that it's only the players time as a Sabre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 The same hackers that Trump suspects, maybe? They'd certainly have a bone to pick with Mogilny. ;) One person admitted they switched their vote. I don't doubt others did. Alex was at 6 and Rico was at 4 last time I checked last night. Things happen. A vote's a vote. Only if you go based on total career. This is time spent as a Sabre only. At least, that's the impression that I get. This is accurate and has been made clear. It seems like the immediate assumption should be their time as a Sabre first if you haven't been told otherwise anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) If you take a snapshot of how good the guy is at his best as a Sabre, ROR is top 10. But Mogilny, under the same criteria is higher. Under the criteria of this vote, my vote is Danny Gare. Led the league in goals, was tough as nails, a leader and a complete hockey player. Edited October 19, 2016 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I've followed The Hoss Convention. If not, imagine the fun I'd have with Tim Horton and Phil Housley ... opposite ends of the stick ...way opposite! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) Take it for what it's worth since I've only been watching since the early 90s, but I think O'Reilly should be way higher than that. If you want ROR, jump on my Craig Ramsay band wagon. Selke winner, perennial runner up and 8 consecutive 20+ goal seasons and the second most games played in franchise history. And he was only a Sabre. Edited October 19, 2016 by 3putt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 If you want ROR, jump on my Craig Ramsay band wagon. Selke winner, perennial runner up and 8 consecutive 20+ goal seasons and the second most games played in franchise history. And he was only a Sabre. I'm on it, but a few rows back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Hoss what happened to the Craig Ramsay option? I cast a vote for him. Is he coming up in a later round? I'm on it, but a few rows back. I forgot how good he actually was until I revisited his numbers. And that funky Cooper helmet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Just commenting for fun, obviously ROR only has one season here so far, but I think he's a better player than Drury/Briere were, and so I think by the time he's done here he'll be very high on the list. Don't know enough about other guys to say exactly where.I think Eichel winds up top 3. In fact, I think he winds up #1. Comparable career to Gil, but bringing the cup to Buffalo. That would make him the best Sabre ever in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 My vote is still up for grabs, and I'm still looking for answers as to why Dave Andreychuk gets little to not love near the top of lists. His numbers are gaudy. Bad defensive game? He has a statue in Tampa Bay? What is it? I put my vote in for Dave Andreychuk but could be swayed. I just think he's a little under appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 My vote is still up for grabs, and I'm still looking for answers as to why Dave Andreychuk gets little to not love near the top of lists. His numbers are gaudy. Bad defensive game? He has a statue in Tampa Bay? What is it? I put my vote in for Dave Andreychuk but could be swayed. I just think he's a little under appreciated. He's a little underappreciated. Powerplay and garbage goal specialist. His career was in front of the net in close. Size that wouldn't be moved. Very quick hands. Always 3rd or 4th best player on the team though. Wasn't a leader on those squads either. He was gawd awful slow, but you could be and thrive back then. And he had no physicality in his game. In an era of the Big Bad Bruins that was a fault with the fans. He played here in the decade of futility. 4/5's of the teams made the playoffs then. And we went 10 straight years of out in the 1st rd while he was here. Hard to not be underappreciated in that context. IMO Andy doesn't have the skills to be a top 10 guy, but he was productive for the entirety of his career. I suppose that says something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) My vote is still up for grabs, and I'm still looking for answers as to why Dave Andreychuk gets little to not love near the top of lists. His numbers are gaudy. Bad defensive game? He has a statue in Tampa Bay? What is it? I put my vote in for Dave Andreychuk but could be swayed. I just think he's a little under appreciated. I have a couple of thoughts (shocker; alert the media). 1). I think Dave's getting great love. I'm gratified. We're at fifth all time and he's in the mix. It's too early, but he's in the mix. 2). Dave suffers from "Housley Syndrome". That is, the conversation around what he wasn't occurs as, or more, frequently as the conversation around what he was. I am firmly a "what he was" guy in exercises such as this. 3). Big Dave is 6'4", 220 pounds. People saw that and wanted Cam Neely. Dave's game wasn't physical in a heavy forecheck or take a guy out way. Everyone was safe in open ice. His feet weren't able to, and his head wasn't interested in, lining anyone up. His physicality manifested around the net, in front of the net, and on the crease. He had Reuben Brown's ass. 4). Mitt Ellis would announce Dave's 33rd goal, and someone would shout loudly, in that splendid living room that was the Aud, "Hit 'im with your purse, Dave"! 5). For some reason, people sneered at his power play goals relative to his even strength goals. I didn't hear the same conversation when Brett Hull, Teemu Selänne and Phil Esposito were being dissected except in the context of their great strengths. Dave buried his chances. In 11 seasons in Buffalo, his shooting percentage exceeded 17% six times. The big LW AVERAGED over 31 goals per season during 11 years in Buffalo. 6). Fleet of foot. No. I first heard the term "power skating" when the Sabres hired a coach for Andreychuk. 7). At age 30, Dave had 908 NHL points. Gordie Howe had 904. At 35, it was 1,140 and 1,285, respectively. Howe was more, certainly. The difference is clear in GoAT and GoBS of all time conversations. Both are in the mix, top ten, in their version of the contests. Tampa's a small town city, much like Buffalo. I see Andreychuk from time to time at games, in restaurants, or in a bar around the arena. He looks great and is very involved with the team. I believe he's VP of Corporate and Community Relations. How good was he? Hell, he played 1,600 NHL games and scored at a .816 ppg pace. That's ALMOST as good as that Housley fellow's .824. 'Course, Housley was a defenseman. I hear he had flaws, too. Dave Andreychuk is an all time great who got there without ever doing any single thing that made you say "wow, THAT was GREAT!" Edited October 20, 2016 by N'eo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Andreychuk 804 points in 834 games over 12 years (including a his one off season late in his career) Mogilny 444 pts in 381 games over 6 years. I don't think it's arguable who had a greater impact on the Sabres; Big Dave hands down. Here is a further comparison between Mogilny, Rico and Big Davd In 12 seasons Dave had 3 20g season (one at 37 years old), 5 30g seasons, 2 40g seasons and 1 50g season (shared w Tor after a trade). He is 2nd of Sabres list in pts and assists and 3rd in goals. Rico is second in goals and 3rd in pts. In 9 full seasons he had 1 20g season, 3 30g seasons, 3 40g seasons and 2 50g seasons. Alex in 6 seasons had 3 30g seasons and one record season. FYI Rico is second in GWG, Dave is 5th and Alex is in the top 10. I'm sorry, Alex was an exciting player, but his impact on the Sabres was frankly limited. Imho Dave is next on our list after HOFer Housley and shouldn't even be listed until we place Robert, and Ramsey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 I, too, do not think Mogilny should be above Andreychuk or Housley. The info from We've and N'eo are driving my vote to Housley, though. N'eo made me more confident in thinking Andreychuk belongs firmly around this spot. I don't think I'll budge on getting him on the list once Housley is there. Maybe Schoenfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 I, too, do not think Mogilny should be above Andreychuk or Housley. The info from We've and N'eo are driving my vote to Housley, though. N'eo made me more confident in thinking Andreychuk belongs firmly around this spot. I don't think I'll budge on getting him on the list once Housley is there. Maybe Schoenfield. I always felt like he left us lacking a bit. Not unlike Thomas Vanek, or Pierre Turgeon. Because of that, I have a hard time voting for him this early. He's after Mike Ramsey on my list. And probably Housley, but I feel like I have to hold my nose to pick Housley. After Gare too. I want to vote Alex before Andrechuck, but those stats are a compelling argument that Alex doesn't go before. Where do the "other" goalies start to show up? How do Edwards, Miller, Barasso line up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) I'm disappointed by the lack of love for the Sabres all time best defenseman. Mike Ramsey deserves better. 14 seasons. 14! 911 games played, 3rd all time. 4 All Star game appearances. Norris trophy votes in 4 seasons when defensive standouts got real consideration. I think his participation in international competition speaks volumes about how he was thought of by the movers and shakers of the league. 80 Olympics, 82 World Championships, 84 and 87 Canada Cup, 87 NHL all star team that played the Soviet national team. That was pretty much all of the international play during his time. He was among the top 2 or 3 very best defensive players in the league for nearly all of his Sabres career. Edited October 20, 2016 by We've Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) We've the only reason I didn't vote Ramsey is Danny Gare. I think he was the best Sabre defenceman ever, Gare was the best RW. I'll say it again, Gare led the league in scoring - ahead of Lafleur, ahead of Bossy. And he was a team leader for an extended period. That's why he's better than Alex. Ramsey might have been the best defensive DMan of his era, a warrior who everyone respected. But he could also skate and pass. I'm struggling to find a modern comparison. Ryan Suter? If he was a forward, he'd be Patrice Bergeron with Peca's hitting ability. Housley was an offensive talent and a beautiful skater, but he was more Keith Yandle than Erik Karlsson when it came to his stature around the league. Andreychuk was Thomas Vanek. Good goal scorer for a long time on disappointing teams. Edited October 20, 2016 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 I could be swayed, but I think this is my top ten: Hasek Perreault Lafontaine Martin Gare Ramsey Schoenfeld Mogilny Hawerchuk Ramsay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 I like the Housley Yandle comparison. Housley had a good deal more offensive prowess than Yandle, but the respect around the league point lines up with my memories. Powerhouses like Pittsburgh and Detroit wanted an end of career Ramsey to make sure they had defensive chops in reserve. Housley put up numbers on medocre teams as he was heading towards his end. I could be swayed, but I think this is my top ten: Hasek Perreault Lafontaine Martin Gare Ramsey Schoenfeld Mogilny Hawerchuk Ramsay Substitute Hawerchuck and Craig Ramsay with Edwards and Miller and thats pretty close to mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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