Neo Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) Housley was not defensively sound. It frustrated us. He scored approximately 560 pts in approximately 600 games as a Sabre, mostly as a defenseman. He played some wing for you youngsters. He's in the Hockey Hall of Fame. Orr, Coffey, Potvin, Borque, McInnes, Reinhart, and Leetch are the ppg defenseman ahead of him. Borque, Coffey and McInnes are the total points defensemen ahead of him. That's all time, all generations. Total points of 1,232. One thousand two hundred and thirty two. Just as when he played, the commentary addresses what he wasn't. I voted for what he was. Edited October 18, 2016 by N'eo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 <======== I loved for Wowie Housley. Hall of Famer and most dynamic defensemen in Sabres history. More goals and more points then any other defensemen in Sabres history. He is also 4th on the Sabres all time list in assists and 5th in points, which is amazing when you consider he was a defensemen. He was the Karlsson of his era. I love Rico, who is 2nd in goals, 6th in assists and 3rd in points and should be next on this list after Housley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 I voted Housley, and revise my original list thusly ... Dom (Gap) Gil, Patty, Wowie, Martin Alex, Schoenfeld, Craig Ramsey Andreychuk Luce I think it's Ramsay. And he should be high on the list. One of the best penalty killers ever and a defensive guru, while also contributing on O. I like the list and the cut of your jib.I voted Housley HOFer, and a phenom jumping right of high school. Another Scotty Bowman mad scientist experiment that worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Craig Ramsey, of Tupelo, Mississippi. Sixteen games, 1972, 73. 16G-2G-3A-5Pts-4 PIM. OK, I made that up. Oops, again! Spelling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 <======== I loved for Wowie Housley. Hall of Famer and most dynamic defensemen in Sabres history. More goals and more points then any other defensemen in Sabres history. He is also 4th on the Sabres all time list in assists and 5th in points, which is amazing when you consider he was a defensemen. He was the Karlsson of his era. I love Rico, who is 2nd in goals, 6th in assists and 3rd in points and should be next on this list after Housley. What was truly amazing is he put up those #'s w/ none of his Richer helpers counting in his totals. Should'vd been at least top 2 in A's if those are counted. ;) He was more of a forward than a D. Spent a lot of time up front early in his career & got a ton of pp points from the point. His D scoring stats were very inflated by his actual usage. He was a good forward and had a great point shot. (Was a natural on the pp there.) But flat out was awful in his own end. While Karlsson isn't great in his own end, he's nowhere near the disaster Phil was. And Coffee was the '80's version of Karlsson. Whimpley wasn't even in the same area code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) What was truly amazing is he put up those #'s w/ none of his Richer helpers counting in his totals. Should'vd been at least top 2 in A's if those are counted. ;) He was more of a forward than a D. Spent a lot of time up front early in his career & got a ton of pp points from the point. His D scoring stats were very inflated by his actual usage. He was a good forward and had a great point shot. (Was a natural on the pp there.) But flat out was awful in his own end. While Karlsson isn't great in his own end, he's nowhere near the disaster Phil was. And Coffee was the '80's version of Karlsson. Whimpley wasn't even in the same area code. Memory test, only ... no counterpoint. I'd list the over/under % of points Housley scored while a defenseman at 95%. I acknowledge PP time at wing in some of those games and skating wing, primarily in a few others. If you disagree with 95%, would you agree to 90%? Edited October 18, 2016 by N'eo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Memory test, only ... no counterpoint. I'd list the over/under % of points Housley scored while a defenseman at 95%. I acknowledge PP time at wing in some of those games and skating wing, primarily in a few others. If you disagree with 95%, would you agree to 90%? I remember about 95%. The forward shifts were novel and thus more memorable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 I may be closer to 98%. It's not like he was Byfuglien or Burns who spent years of their careers upfront. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Memory test, only ... no counterpoint. I'd list the over/under % of points Housley scored while a defenseman at 95%. I acknowledge PP time at wing in some of those games and skating wing, primarily in a few others. If you disagree with 95%, would you agree to 90%? In a couple of his big point seasons early in the Bowman years, I'd count ~20% of the points as playing at F. (Probably in the minority here, but in a game where he was up front at 5-on-5, I'd count the pp points as being a forward as well. Nobody considers the 4th F to be a D man.) And they were later in his career, but the Jets experimented briefly w/ playing 3 D at a pop after he was traded there, but points he scored then were basically up front as well. And Winnipeg ended that experiment veeeeery quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Craig RamsAy Mike RamsEy Just for future reference on the last name spelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) Hoss, I think Craig RamsAy needs to be in the discussion around this spot. Second in games played and 8 consecutive 20goal seasons. Solid all round player. Selke award winner.And a runner up to Bob Gainey 3 times. That's a very good career Edited October 18, 2016 by 3putt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) Controversy alert ... As I continue to have dialogue, revisit numbers, and scan the memory banks, I make yet another revision. Owing to Alex Mogilny's lead at this point, I spent some time on his career. I am dropping him on my list. One spectacular season, and never 40 goals again in Buffalo. One trick, one time. Enigmatic son of a gun. Fun to watch. Jets on his feet. Occasional fists of stone. Remember the fear of flying and the occasional "driving Miss Daisy" to games as far away as Chicago and Detroit? In fact, I've dropped Alex to second best right wing, and out of the top ten all together. Alex is not top ten in any category of Buffalo Sabres statistic. His glorious single season alongside Patty shines! I didn't realize Gare's over all numbers were much greater. Of course, Gare brought so much else! Tidbit: Gare and Mogilny scored on their first shift of their first game. There are challenges to Housley at slot four. I don't believe Alex Mogilny is one of them. Dom Gil, Patty, Housley, Rick Martin, Craig Ramsay Dave Andreychuk Jim Schoenfeld Danny Gare Luce Edited October 18, 2016 by N'eo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 N'eo, not having #5 in there is almost criminal. He was a better, longer D-man than Schony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 My memory glands may be warped but in my mind Jerry Korab was as good or better than Jim Schoenfeld. What he's doing in the discussion of top 10 Sabres of all time, I have no clue. I wouldn't even have him in the top 5-10 Dmen of all time, popularity maybe, skill wise, no way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) N'eo, not having #5 in there is almost criminal. He was a better, longer D-man than Schony.Among my all time faves, yes. I am doing the Schoeny / Ramsey analysis in my head. I may get there when I focus on "the next slot up". I made my first list off the top of my head, and I continue to revise it as I focus here or there. One game, one pick, Schoeny vs Ramsey, I take Mike. In short, I'm going to get there. I'm busy saving Housley! I believe my first ranking, and iterations thereafter until I focus spot to spot, suffered from some level of "icon" effect. My memory glands may be warped but in my mind Jerry Korab was as good or better than Jim Schoenfeld. What he's doing in the discussion of top 10 Sabres of all time, I have no clue. I wouldn't even have him in the top 5-10 Dmen of all time, popularity maybe, skill wise, no way"Memory glands" is awesome! Edited October 18, 2016 by N'eo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Why are people voting Mogilny over Martin? Alex had one dominant season. Rico had four. And his all-time Sabre numbers are far superior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 I just cant get past Housley's complete lack of defensive ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 I just cant get past Housley's complete lack of defensive ability. Yep. And if he were any other nationality, he'd've never sniffed the HoF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) While we wait: Should Housley prevail, I'd consider the following. Presented for Hoss to consider among his many sources. Note I am dropping Mogilny, despite his strong showing in this round, out of my top ten. The numbers and the intangibles are just too strong among this group. Next Round: Rick Martin, Danny Gare Craig Ramsay Mike Ramsey All of which implies my top ten of: Hasek* Perreault* LaFontaine* Phil Housley Rick Martin Danny Gare Craig Ramsay Mike Ramsey Dave Andreychuk Jim Schoenfeld Gare's ascendency knocks Mogilny out of my top ten. Mike Ramsey's does the same to Don Luce. There were some good hockey players in those late seventies, early eighties, teams. Schoeny's hold is tenuous. Edited October 18, 2016 by N'eo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 While we wait: Should Housley prevail, I'd consider the following. Presented for Hoss to consider among his many sources. Note I am dropping Mogilny, despite his strong showing in this round, out of my top ten. The numbers and the intangibles are just too strong among this group. Next Round: Rick Martin, Danny Gare Craig Ramsay Mike Ramsey All of which implies my top ten of: Hasek* Perreault* LaFontaine* Phil Housley Rick Martin Danny Gare Craig Ramsay Mike Ramsey Dave Andreychuk Jim Schoenfeld Gare's ascendency knocks Mogilny out of my top ten. Mike Ramsey's does the same to Don Luce. There were some good hockey players in those late seventies, early eighties, teams. Schoeny's hold is tenuous. While Ramsey is my choice for 4, Gare is absolurely right behind him. 50 goal scorer (twice) from the CHECKING LINE. Tied for league lead in goals w/ 56 in his 2nd 50+ season. Small but strong as heck and absolutely fearless. Had a couple of very memorable battles. Scored 1st shift of his 1st game. Runner up (to Eric FRIGGIN' Vail) for the Calder. Team captain (& not that it matters for this discussion, but is also the answer to the trivia Q: who was Red Wings captain (4 years) prior to Yzerman) & absolutely bled blue & gold. Unlike Whimpley, nobody ever heard somebody yell at him "hit 'im w/ your purse." He was truly a complete player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Gare cheats at cards and still owes me money from 1998. him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 & scored OT winner vs Moe-ray-all in game 1 back in the '75 semis. & had horrible angle goal in game 6 as well that gave them the margin of victory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Yes I can hold a grudge. :beer: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Gare cheats at cards and still owes me money from 1998. ###### him. Plays to win. 1 more plus in his column. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Edit to my post above ... my "next round" excluded Mogilny because of my ranking. I recognize he scored high enough with others to remain in any next round, even if he's not "my guy"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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