kas23 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 I also agree with the point K-9 was making about how it's weak sauce to fault Vesey for wanting to pick his spot. He's done a lotta hard work to get to where he is, and the rules permit him to choose his own path. If anything, I think this speaks well of him. That's not what he wrote though. He said that we can't fault Vesey for wanting to maximize the money he'll get due to his increased production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 His earnings would have been maximized by signing with Nashville after his college season ended. He'd have been paid for last season and his ELC would have kicked in a year sooner. He left substantial money on the table by NOT signing with Nashville. Not something I was aware of. Also thanks for the clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 I didn't know that, thanks for the clarification. So now we are just mad at him for taking advantage of a rule that allows him to choose his place of employment. Got it. GO SABRES!!! I see the goal posts moving now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 That's not what he wrote though. He said that we can't fault Vesey for wanting to maximize the money he'll get due to his increased production. After others were kind enough to provide information I wasn't aware of, I pared it down to, "now we are just mad at Vesey for taking advantage of a rule that allows him to choose his place of employment." And I said nothing about "increased production." I simply pointed out that he improved his game from 3rd round prospect to a top 10 in the draft prospect. GO SABRES!!! I see the goal posts moving now. Not at all. Look, I appreciate the added information about what Nashville offered. I wasn't aware they offered him the max ELC. The goal posts are stopped at being mad at him for taking advantage of a rule that allows him a say in where he plays. I think we're done now. GO SABRES!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 That's not what he wrote though. Four years ago he was drafted as a third round prospect. In those interim four years, he developed as a prospect to the point where he would have been a top 10 choice in this year's draft. There is a rule in place that allows four year college players to become UFAs. If anyone here had increased his value as a player like Vesey has, would you still sign with your original team or would you take advantage of a rule that allows you to maximize your earnings? I think he did say, or imply, what I wrote above. K-9 may not have intended to refer to increasing career earning potential by landing in the best possible place, but that's what I inferred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 I think he did say, or imply, what I wrote above. K-9 may not have intended to refer to increasing career earning potential by landing in the best possible place, but that's what I inferred. My entire premise was based on his original status as a 3rd round pick vs. his status as a prospect that would have gone top 10 in the draft. As I stated, I didn't know that Nashville had offered him the max and I don't think it unreasonable to assume they might have started negotiations the 3rd round point of view. Kas is just mad that I used the word "stupid". Which I think it is when everyone here would have done the same thing. At least anyone that actually values having a say in where they work. GO SABRES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakish Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 I've been thinking some about the 'top 10 in the draft' phrase. Vesey was drafted in 2012, but he could have been drafted in 2011, so I try to compare him to players in the 2011 draft, this way he's not a year older than everyone else. I think 'top 10 in the 2012 draft' is a fair statement, it was a fairly weak draft and he's a year older than everyone else, but comparing Vesey to the 2011 draft, I think 20th is as high as I could go. My model has him 13th in 2014, and 27th in 2015. This is the 2015 year for that age group: 1 JOHNNY GAUDREAU NHL 25282 DOUGIE HAMILTON NHL 24543 NIKITA KUCHEROV NHL 22224 COLTON PARAYKO NHL 20055 GABRIEL LANDESKOG NHL 19906 MARK SCHEIFELE NHL 19257 BRANDON SAAD NHL 17398 JONATHAN HUBERDEAU NHL 17399 OSCAR KLEFBOM NHL 172810 VICTOR RASK NHL 153611 VINCENT TROCHECK NHL 148412 VIKTOR ARVIDSSON AHL 147213 SHAYNE GOSTISBEHERE NHL 142314 MIKA ZIBANEJAD NHL 141015 SEAN COUTURIER NHL 138716 JOSH LEIVO AHL 138717 RYAN NUGENT-HOPKINS NHL 138518 DARREN DIETZ NHL 137119 BOONE JENNER NHL 133920 RICKARD RAKELL NHL 133821 BEN HUTTON NHL 128022 SETH GRIFFITH AHL 125623 COLIN SMITH AHL 123624 DANIEL PRIBYL Czech 120025 J.T. MILLER NHL 117526 NATHAN BEAULIEU NHL 1154 27 JIMMY VESEY NCAA 1150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 What are those 4-digit numbers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakish Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 That's just my raw valuation. Rule of thumb is that 1000 is an NHL player, If you get there at 18 you will be great, if you get there at 22, you'll be OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 That's just my raw valuation. Rule of thumb is that 1000 is an NHL player, If you get there at 18 you will be great, if you get there at 22, you'll be OK Where would Vesey have gone in this year's draft? He's better player than he was four years ago. GO SABRES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Where would Vesey have gone in this year's draft? He's better player than he was four years ago. GO SABRES!!! That's not a fair comparison. Vesey is 23 and you want him compared to 17/18year olds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Anybody know why Vesey didn't sign with NSH after his junior season? He had a monster year and was 2nd place in Hobey Baker voting (to Jack). I applaud academics, but that's unusual for a player of his caliber at his age (22 at the time) to return to school for a 4th year. If he stayed in school to get his degree, then I salute him, but if it was just to avoid NSH, then I lose some amount respect for him. I guess we'll never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 That's not a fair comparison. Vesey is 23 and you want him compared to 17/18year olds. I understand that. Just curious. He's a far better player than he was four years ago. GO SABRES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakish Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 I understand that. Just curious. He's a far better player than he was four years ago. GO SABRES!!! The list is year 2015, it has nothing to do with 2011, I'm just comparing his 2015 year to other players his age Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor of Philhousley Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Anybody know why Vesey didn't sign with NSH after his junior season? He had a monster year and was 2nd place in Hobey Baker voting (to Jack). I applaud academics, but that's unusual for a player of his caliber at his age (22 at the time) to return to school for a 4th year. If he stayed in school to get his degree, then I salute him, but if it was just to avoid NSH, then I lose some amount respect for him. I guess we'll never know. A Harvard University diploma or playing a year between the AHL and NHL? I think he made the right choice regardless of motivation. In this instance, the school does matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 The list is year 2015, it has nothing to do with 2011, I'm just comparing his 2015 year to other players his age It's all good. Greatly appreciate your formulas and the work you put in applying them. Great stuff. GO SABRES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Anybody know why Vesey didn't sign with NSH after his junior season? He had a monster year and was 2nd place in Hobey Baker voting (to Jack). I applaud academics, but that's unusual for a player of his caliber at his age (22 at the time) to return to school for a 4th year. If he stayed in school to get his degree, then I salute him, but if it was just to avoid NSH, then I lose some amount respect for him. I guess we'll never know. A Harvard University diploma or playing a year between the AHL and NHL? I think he made the right choice regardless of motivation. In this instance, the school does matter. I think that, by then, he'd already decided he wasn't going to sign with the Preds and knew he had to play is final college year to get to free agency. Not really a mystery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 I choose to believe it has always been his lifelong dream to play on the same team that drafted his heroes, Danny Paille and Jason Dawe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabills Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 John VoglVerified account@BuffNewsVogl Jimmy Vesey's agent: "We hope to meet with Buffalo in the near future and are open to anything." http://sabres.buffalonews.com/2016/07/01/vesey-agent-hope-meet-sabres-open-anything/ And thus begins the pull-back from the "still going to free-agency" bit. Slow and steady, no sir, no tampering here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) Well, he's not getting signed today Edited July 1, 2016 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 He's signing. Take it to the bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 That's nice, now get your ass to dev camp like the rest of the boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabills Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 That's nice, now get your ass to dev camp like the rest of the boys. He's not on the dev camp roster. Neither are Eichel and Rinnnehartte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 He's signing. Take it to the bank. Once there, what I should I do with it? Rinnnehartte Needs more D's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Is this the year we decide to deliberately spell Reinhart wrong for fun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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