Vesey signs with Rangers; huge thread now moot

[ct fab]

How in the hell do we know the conversation he had with Nashville? We don't. We have one side saying they never said they were signing with Nashville vs poile trying to save face saying they did. To guess what happened is just a guess. He has every right to go to 8/15 and let's not act like he's the first to do this cuz he's not. Overreaction.......

[BagBoy]

How in the hell do we know the conversation he had with Nashville? We don't. We have one side saying they never said they were signing with Nashville vs poile trying to save face saying they did. To guess what happened is just a guess. He has every right to go to 8/15 and let's not act like he's the first to do this cuz he's not. Overreaction.......

 

I'm not buying this.  Vesey and his agent wouldn't even talk to Poile and NSH.  They couldn't even go through the motions of acting like they were operating with good faith.  Vesey and his agent never disputed anything Poile said, including a top 6 position for him.  I'm with pi on this one.  Vesey is showing every indication that he is as sleazy as Matthews, if not more so.

[3putt]

While he was still playing at Harvard, he couldn't have an agent or he would lose eligibility. So the remarks that Poile talked to his agent at the deadline is not plausible because Harvard was still playing.

[BagBoy]

While he was still playing at Harvard, he couldn't have an agent or he would lose eligibility. So the remarks that Poile talked to his agent at the deadline is not plausible because Harvard was still playing.

 

http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/nhl/predators/2016/03/29/predators-jimmy-vesey-free-agency-david-poile-nhl/82368660/

 

"After all the time and resources that we invested in Jimmy's development, we could not get a meeting with Jimmy, his family and his representatives all together," Poile said. "That’s the only thing I asked for after (March 23), and they would not accommodate us on that."

Poile reiterated to Vesey what he had regularly stated — a place on one of the Predators' top forward lines was instantly his if he signed with them. That offer was the same as it was last year when Nashville attempted to entice Vesey to forgo his final year of collegiate eligibility, ultimately to no avail.

There was financial incentive, too. Vesey would burn a year from what would be a two-year entry-level contract, putting him closer to both restricted and unrestricted free agency and potentially a larger payday. The Predators were the only team that Vesey could play for this season since they hold his rights until Aug. 15, so no one else could offer him that opportunity.

[3putt]

Poile also,said that they didn't make a deadline move because Vesey said he was coming. The deadline was February 29. Vesey couldn't have an agent on that day as Harvard was still playing. I wasn't privy to the conversation but it sounds like Poile assumed, and everyone knows what happens when you assume.

[ct fab]

Not being willing to sit down with Nashville and telling them he'd sign with them don't mesh. Correct?

[BagBoy]

Poile also,said that they didn't make a deadline move because Vesey said he was coming. The deadline was February 29. Vesey couldn't have an agent on that day as Harvard was still playing. I wasn't privy to the conversation but it sounds like Poile assumed, and everyone knows what happens when you assume.

 

Read the article.  There was no issue with Poile talking to Vesey before he signed an agent.  Poile offered him a top 6 position LAST YEAR, in addition to this year.

 

If Vesey didn't want to be a top 6 forward on NSH (which is totally beyond me), fine.  That's his right.  But the only reason he wouldn't come out and tell Poile/NSH as much, and not lead them on, is because he didn't want to look like as much of a prick as he apparently is.

 

To be honest, I sort of want him, because he just might pan out.  But these shenanigans remind me of Lindros' BS w/Quebec.  Lindros could have signed with Quebec/Colo. and won a cup or more, unlike winning nothing with Philly.  If Vesey was pulling this schit with a Carolina or a Vancouver or some other tire-fire franchise, I might cut him some slack.  But when he is pulling this nonsense with a team that is an ideal fit for him (at least from a purely hockey-oriented position), then I can't help but think he's got his head so far up his ass that it's actually coming out out of his mouth.

 

And here's the thing.  This guy has played ZERO NHL games.  And he's been playing a 40-game schedule for the last 4 years.  Who the hell does he think he is that he will be God's gift to the NHL as a rookie for an 82-game season in the best league in the world?

[WildCard]

Me looking at this thread

Always a favorite gif of mine

[kas23]

To be honest, I sort of want him, because he just might pan out. But these shenanigans remind me of Lindros' BS w/Quebec. Lindros could have signed with Quebec/Colo. and won a cup or more, unlike winning nothing with Philly. If Vesey was pulling this schit with a Carolina or a Vancouver or some other tire-fire franchise, I might cut him some slack. But when he is pulling this nonsense with a team that is an ideal fit for him (at least from a purely hockey-oriented position), then I can't help but think he's got his head so far up his ass that it's actually coming out out of his mouth.

 

I totally agree with everything you said, but the Lindros comment. I like to play "what if..." games and I'd say that Quebec/Colorado would never have won those cups if Quebec hadn't traded Lindros away.

[BagBoy]

I totally agree with everything you said, but the Lindros comment. I like to play "what if..." games and I'd say that Quebec/Colorado would never have won those cups if Quebec hadn't traded Lindros away.

 

LOL, I have to agree.  Forsberg > Lindros all day long.  

[7+6=13]

I would think this loop hole gets changed the next time labor talks come up (I believe 2021).  I'd have to think if a team drafts a player he'd eventually have to play for that team.

[beerme1]

As a collective group the whining needs to stop. Que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be. Cue some stupid Disney thing now. Let it go, let it go.

 

 

We'll see about Aug 19th or so.

[Brawndo]

Stan Bowman in Foxboro again tonight watching Jimmy Vesey.

[pi2000]

I would think this loop hole gets changed the next time labor talks come up (I believe 2021). I'd have to think if a team drafts a player he'd eventually have to play for that team.

Or just put them back in the draft, which seems more fair. You can bet if that was the case here, Vesey, would've signed with NSH ages ago rather than end up someplace like WPG or EDM.

Not being willing to sit down with Nashville and telling them he'd sign with them don't mesh. Correct?

He told them leading up to the deadline that he was in. Then he said he was out, and refused to even meet with them. What a jerk, he wouldn't even give the team that drafted him, in the third round no less, the time of day. NSH/Poile are very well respected arpound the league. They take care of their players and are always contenders. I guess winning just isn't important to little Jimmy. Edited July 21, 2016 by pi2000

[beerme1]

Let it go. Let it go.

[GASabresIUFAN]

The young man is 23. He isn't some teenager who has years to develop. Vesey is probably close to being a finished product. In order for him to maximize his career is to use this aspect of the CBA to find himself the best opportunity. I don't blame him and think if I were in his shoes I'd do the same. Remember as soon as he signs a contract he no longer has any control. If he signs here and isn't the player GMTM thinks, GMTM and CDB ("DD") can bench him, drop in the lineup, send him down, trade him, waive him etc....

 

We should give this kid a break. To turn against him already before he even steps on the ice is unfair. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

Also whether we get him or not will not make or break this season. We have plenty of candidates for the top 6 LW role even without Vesey. Plus we added Nylander in the draft, who could also be a candidate for the job. I think getting Vesey just accelerates the rebuild a little and when coupled with Nylander ultimately allows GMTM to walk in a year or 2 or get traded.

[SabresBillsFan]

Stan Bowman in Foxboro again tonight watching Jimmy Vesey.

It wouldn't surprise me if he goes to Chicago. They can easily afford him and look at who he can learn from. I'm calling it now he's not coming to Buffalo.

[ct fab]

I see that PI is the asst GM in Nashville these days? Must be with all the iinside info he's sharing with us.

[akm]

Naah he's just literally making things up.

[CallawaySabres]

It wouldn't surprise me if he goes to Chicago. They can easily afford him and look at who he can learn from. I'm calling it now he's not coming to Buffalo.

I'm pretty sure this was quite obvious when 48 passed after meeting with Buffalo

[7+6=13]

Or just put them back in the draft, which seems more fair. You can bet if that was the case here, Vesey, would've signed with NSH ages ago rather than end up someplace like WPG or EDM.

 

 

Fair to whom?  NSH spent a draft pick on him and don't get a player.  The easy thing is if you want to dictate your personal development and go back to college hockey that's fine - but if you want to join the NHL you go to the team that drafted you.  Otherwise you'd have to create a compensation chart for the original drafting team if they can re-enter the draft.

[tom webster]

I've pretty much stayed out of this but has anyone considered the following;

1) Vesey gave up at least $2M to earn this right

2) he is not the first player to do this

3) teams like using their middle picks on college players because it gives them extra time to evaluate them and hang onto their rights

[ct fab]

tough to say what he gave up $ wise, but definitely not $2m.  He definitely gave up prorated share of $925k - probably around $150k + any playoff money he would have shared in.  He wouldn't have been able to make any bonus money on a partial year and his ELC will end at the same time whether he signed March 1 with Nashville or August 17th with anybody (2 years)

 

He's signing with an East coast team, so CHI won't be it.  I'd say it's 50% Boston, 33% Buffalo and 17% to the field (TOR,PHI,NJ,NYR.NYI)

Edited July 21, 2016 by ct fab

[MattPie]

tough to say what he gave up $ wise, but definitely not $2m.  He definitely gave up prorated share of $925k - probably around $150k + any playoff money he would have shared in.  He wouldn't have been able to make any bonus money on a partial year and his ELC will end at the same time whether he signed March 1 with Nashville or August 17th with anybody (2 years)

 

He's signing with an East coast team, so CHI won't be it.  I'd say it's 50% Boston, 33% Buffalo and 17% to the field (TOR,PHI,NJ,NYR.NYI)

 

You could argue that if he'd signed last year he'd be one year closer to UFA (right?).

[Thorny]

Fair to whom?  NSH spent a draft pick on him and don't get a player.  The easy thing is if you want to dictate your personal development and go back to college hockey that's fine - but if you want to join the NHL you go to the team that drafted you.  Otherwise you'd have to create a compensation chart for the original drafting team if they can re-enter the draft.

  

 

There is already a system right now, where if you draft a player from Juniors and he doesn't sign within the 2 year allotment, that player re-enters the draft and the drafting team (or whoever owns his rights) gets a compensatory pick. The Coyotes traded for Conner Bleackley, a prospect drafted by Colorado, and chose not to sign him and let him enter re-enter the draft, the 2016 draft just past. And Arizona received a compensatory 2016 2nd round pick.

 

Maybe a system like this could be implemented for College players, cause as far as I know, if a player waits 4 years and goes the FA route, there is no guaranteed compensation for the drafting team. But, as we saw with Poile, they got a third round pick for Vesey anyways, and with Vesey being a third round pick, I believe that's higher than the compensation he would have got under the Juniors system. Bleackley was a 1st rounder originally, the compensation pick was a 2nd. Also:

 

I've pretty much stayed out of this but has anyone considered the following;

1) Vesey gave up at least $2M to earn this right

2) he is not the first player to do this

3) teams like using their middle picks on college players because it gives them extra time to evaluate them and hang onto their rights

This. I don't feel bad for Poile. There is some added risk with College guys, but it comes with the added benefit of longer negotiation time. And, as said, Poile got his 3rd round pick back, anyways. He knew the situation when the placed the selection back in 2012.

 

As for Vesey: don't hate the player, hate the game. He's only taking advantage of the system and the rules that have been collectively bargained. I don't believe his process is indicative of his character.

 

I keep flip-flopping on this, but I would guess he's probably not coming here. Seems unlikely at this point. He may still come here, but I wouldn't bet on it, he should be viewed like any other FA.

 

But the important thing, is that we know Murray is not counting on him. He said as much, that other people are making way more of a deal about this than him. Our off season plans aren't hinging on Vesey. Murray is probably operating under the assumption that Vesey is NOT coming, it's the only responsible thing to do.

 

Okposo was the big forward add, after not succeeding on Stamkos. Vesey would just be a bonus.