Bucky: Pegulas in over their heads

[ubkev]

And the Bills began a slow erosion that now looks like total free-fall to the bottom of the NFL.

 

Hey, I don't like the Pegulas any either, but the bills have sucked for waaaay longer than Terry and Kim have been involved.

[LTS]

Here's the thing...

 

The Bills don't actually suck as bad as people might think.  The coaches were idiots.  Ryan took a very good defense and managed to make it worse and then hired his brother and it became even worse than before.  Two defensive "gurus" and the defense declined?  Meanwhile, the offense is throwing up points.

 

I'd say keep Lynn and go get Jim Scwartz back for defense.

 

As for the Sabres... the injuries play a part in this.  The talent isn't at the development point it needs to be and so all injuries are still significant (especially the players that have been missing).  There are a few players that have been out or could be out and the team might improve but at the very least stay at the same level.  Losing Eichel, ROR, Kane, and now Larsson creates a huge problem for the team.

 

That said.. coaching is still a big issue.. something is still rotten in the locker room.. perhaps its the owners.

[Huckleberry]

starting to make me look at GMTM in a different way now to.

[inkman]

starting to make me look at GMTM in a different way now to.

You shouldn't

[Doohickie]

I still think Bucky is in way over his head.

[dudacek]

Not defending the Pegulas here, but some perspective, people.

The Bills in this century are a tire fire. The Bills under the Pegulas are mediocre. 15-17 is hardly the utter disaster media hype and "because Buffalo" wants it to be.

They hired a charismatic coach and fired him when it became clear he couldn't deliver what he promised.

One of those decisions was a mistake, not both.

Edited January 3, 2017 by dudacek

[Doohickie]

Agreed.

[woods-racer]

Not defending the Pegulas here, but some perspective, people.

The Bills in this century are a tire fire. The Bills under the Pegulas are mediocre. 15-17 is hardly the utter disaster media hype and "because Buffalo" wants it to be.

They hired a charismatic coach and fired him when it became clear he couldn't deliver what he promised.

One of those decisions was a mistake, not both.

 

To acknowledge when you have done something wrong is not easy to admit for just about anyone. Then, to try and fix it requires a lot of courage and self determination. Pegula screwed up and basically owned up to it. Sounds human, and a half decent one at that, if what he told John Warrow is all true.

[TheAud]

I agree. I don't think anyone can write a check and own the Sabres any more than China can write a check and own the United States. It's kind of like how Rick will never accept the title of Voice of the Sabres. He has maintained that Ted Darling will always be the Voice of the Sabres. The Knoxes and the fans and the community are the only owners the Sabres have ever had.

But Al Gore did build the internet. 

 

Please help me I'm feeling a little slow here...how is it that in the past Rigas and Golisano, and in the present Pegula, have not owned the Sabres because the Knox's and the fans are the only owners the Sabres have ever had? I assume you are making a metaphorical or philosophical argument of some sort?   

 

Time passes and things change. You and I may be old enough to have been Sabres fans in the Knox days (at least, I'm that old) but there are many fans of the team who weren't even alive when they owned the team. How is Ted Darling relevant to them?

 

(My best friend lived down the street from the Darlings and I once got to attend a Sabres game where they had been given tickets from Ted, in the first row, in the corner vs. the Flyers. I recall Danny Gare scoring multiple goals. Sometime I need to track down what game that was, I must have been maybe 8-9 years old. It's like a dream.)

[PASabreFan]

But Al Gore did build the internet. 

 

Please help me I'm feeling a little slow here...how is it that in the past Rigas and Golisano, and in the present Pegula, have not owned the Sabres because the Knox's and the fans are the only owners the Sabres have ever had? I assume you are making a metaphorical or philosophical argument of some sort?   

 

Time passes and things change. You and I may be old enough to have been Sabres fans in the Knox days (at least, I'm that old) but there are many fans of the team who weren't even alive when they owned the team. How is Ted Darling relevant to them?

 

(My best friend lived down the street from the Darlings and I once got to attend a Sabres game where they had been given tickets from Ted, in the first row, in the corner vs. the Flyers. I recall Danny Gare scoring multiple goals. Sometime I need to track down what game that was, I must have been maybe 8-9 years old. It's like a dream.)

Danny had a hat trick against the Flyers at the Aud on March 8, 1981. The Sabres won 8-4 and Pete Peeters was in goal. It was a Sunday.

 

I'll have a reply to your question tomorrow.  I wrote something, but it's barely coherent at this hour. I also have (I think) a pretty incredible footnote on Gare's HT. Want to make sure my eyes aren't playing tricks on me.

[PASabreFan]

In the light of day, it is true. In 170 all-time regular season games against Philly (plus any meetings this year), only one Sabre has recorded a hat trick — Danny. But two Sabres had playoff hat tricks against Philly. Surely you remember...

 

Here's another amazing (to me) stat, and very telling about the state of the franchise and the league:

 

The Sabres recorded 62 regular season hat tricks in the decade of the 1970s. They have 11 so far in the 2010s.

 

(47 in the 80s, 35 in the 90s and 27 in the 00s. The 20s should really be roaring.)

[PromoTheRobot]

Not defending the Pegulas here, but some perspective, people.

The Bills in this century are a tire fire. The Bills under the Pegulas are mediocre. 15-17 is hardly the utter disaster media hype and "because Buffalo" wants it to be.

They hired a charismatic coach and fired him when it became clear he couldn't deliver what he promised.

One of those decisions was a mistake, not both.

Except the Bills are not a tire fire. That is a narrative the Buffalo News is stoking. Go over to Two Bills Drive and read the thread on the SUlly article and press conference. 

 

In a nutshell, Pegula spoke privately with Rex Ryan and both agreed to move on. Whaley was notified afterwards. Rex answered to Pegula, not Whaley. Pegula then put choice of next coach in Whaley's hands. Pretty cut-and-dry, no?

 

Then you read the Buffalo News and they are just besides themselves because Whaley gave these exact answers in his press conference. They all but called him a liar. But within an hour John Wawrow publishes an interview with Pegula that verifies everything Whaley said.

 

The Pegulas already admitted they made a mistake on Rex and want Whaley to take full responsibility on the next coaching hire, something he did not have until now.

 

Now you can call that a tire fire if you are a drama queen. You can call Pegula meddling for disregarding his GM's opinion on Rex. (He was against him but went along withPegulas and Brandon.) But the Buffalo News is showing itself to be a petty, vindictive bunch out to show the Pegulas that they need to kowtow to their whims if they know what's good for them.

[dudacek]

Except the Bills are not a tire fire. That is a narrative the Buffalo News is stoking. Go over to Two Bills Drive and read the thread on the SUlly article and press conference.

 

Now you can call that a tire fire if you are a drama queen.

 

You know I agree with you, right?

Edited January 3, 2017 by dudacek

[woods-racer]

You know I agree with you, right?

 

I did.

 

But if you struck a nerve mistakenly and get a great response we can all deal with it.

[Randall Flagg]

In the light of day, it is true. In 170 all-time regular season games against Philly (plus any meetings this year), only one Sabre has recorded a hat trick — Danny. But two Sabres had playoff hat tricks against Philly. Surely you remember...

 

Here's another amazing (to me) stat, and very telling about the state of the franchise and the league:

 

The Sabres recorded 62 regular season hat tricks in the decade of the 1970s. They have 11 so far in the 2010s.

 

(47 in the 80s, 35 in the 90s and 27 in the 00s. The 20s should really be roaring.)

Same game, right?

[PASabreFan]

Same game, right?

That is correct.

[ddaryl]

I no longer pay any attention at all to the Buffalo News sports section.  all they ever do is grind ax's

[Marvelo]

Except the Bills are not a tire fire. That is a narrative the Buffalo News is stoking. Go over to Two Bills Drive and read the thread on the SUlly article and press conference. 

 

In a nutshell, Pegula spoke privately with Rex Ryan and both agreed to move on. Whaley was notified afterwards. Rex answered to Pegula, not Whaley. Pegula then put choice of next coach in Whaley's hands. Pretty cut-and-dry, no?

 

Then you read the Buffalo News and they are just besides themselves because Whaley gave these exact answers in his press conference. They all but called him a liar. But within an hour John Wawrow publishes an interview with Pegula that verifies everything Whaley said.

 

The Pegulas already admitted they made a mistake on Rex and want Whaley to take full responsibility on the next coaching hire, something he did not have until now.

 

Now you can call that a tire fire if you are a drama queen. You can call Pegula meddling for disregarding his GM's opinion on Rex. (He was against him but went along withPegulas and Brandon.) But the Buffalo News is showing itself to be a petty, vindictive bunch out to show the Pegulas that they need to kowtow to their whims if they know what's good for them.

 

I'm not saying it's a tire fire but Petula put Whaley in an awful bad position when he spoke to Rex and agreed to part company right on the spot. He undermined his own GM. The right thing to do would have been to listen to Rex then go to Whaley to make a decision. Now Whaley doesn't have credibility.

[sodbuster]

I'm not saying it's a tire fire but Petula put Whaley in an awful bad position when he spoke to Rex and agreed to part company right on the spot. He undermined his own GM. The right thing to do would have been to listen to Rex then go to Whaley to make a decision. Now Whaley doesn't have credibility.

It isn't undermining Whaley if Whaley isn't Rex's boss, which has always been the case.

[Marvelo]

It isn't undermining Whaley if Whaley isn't Rex's boss, which has always been the case.

 

Don't agree sod. There has to be a chain of command where the owner delegates responsibility. Responsibility of the GM is to hire/fire coaches among other things.

[PASabreFan]

We need LabattBlue to come back for one day and create a new sig. He has ample material.

I no longer pay any attention at all to the Buffalo News sports section.  all they ever do is grind ax's

Only because there are so many dying trees to cut down before they fall on the day care center.

[LTS]

Don't agree sod. There has to be a chain of command where the owner delegates responsibility. Responsibility of the GM is to hire/fire coaches among other things.

 

You are correct.. there has to be a chain of command.  What you are not correct about is what that chain HAS to be.... in the case of the Bills and the GM and Coach the Coach reported to the owner.  This is changing, but it wasn't the case.

 

A more nuanced point is that Pegula would have been wise to inform Whaley of the situation ahead of time and those two work together to craft a unified statement to the public.

 

Pegula is very guilty of making poor organizational design and personnel decisions.  He is certainly pretty poor at PR lately as well.  Is he learning or is he just inept... that remains to be seen.

[sodbuster]

Don't agree sod. There has to be a chain of command where the owner delegates responsibility. Responsibility of the GM is to hire/fire coaches among other things.

There should be, but there wasn't. Terrys own words were that Rex doesn't report to Whaley. Whether or not that's a good structure is up for debate (I personally think it's a crappy way to run things) but that's just the way Pegula set it up.

[Jsixspd]

Except the Bills are not a tire fire. That is a narrative the Buffalo News is stoking. Go over to Two Bills Drive and read the thread on the SUlly article and press conference. 

 

In a nutshell, Pegula spoke privately with Rex Ryan and both agreed to move on. Whaley was notified afterwards. Rex answered to Pegula, not Whaley. Pegula then put choice of next coach in Whaley's hands. Pretty cut-and-dry, no?

 

Then you read the Buffalo News and they are just besides themselves because Whaley gave these exact answers in his press conference. They all but called him a liar. But within an hour John Wawrow publishes an interview with Pegula that verifies everything Whaley said.

 

The Pegulas already admitted they made a mistake on Rex and want Whaley to take full responsibility on the next coaching hire, something he did not have until now.

 

Now you can call that a tire fire if you are a drama queen. You can call Pegula meddling for disregarding his GM's opinion on Rex. (He was against him but went along withPegulas and Brandon.) But the Buffalo News is showing itself to be a petty, vindictive bunch out to show the Pegulas that they need to kowtow to their whims if they know what's good for them.

Just because the narrative has been refined and clarified doesn't make the reality any less baffling or foolish.

 

Even if Ryan reported to the Pegulas (an unusual structure)  why wouldn't the owner(s) at least consult with the GM, who is presumed to be the most knowledgeable "football guy" on the team on firing the HC?

 

Why, even if they went ahead and fired the coach without asking the GM about,  wouldn't the owners take the time to EXPLAIN to the GM why the coach was fired?  The guy kinda should KNOW to understand the needs of the owners. 

 

Why did the Owners take the advice of a FIRED coach regarding who should be interim coach without asking for the GM's opinion?

 

Why did Kim Pegula's own interview contradict Terry Pegula's account of how the Ryan firing went down?  His narrative - it happened during the phone call between he and Rex - she said it was THEIR decision.  

 

How can we spin it other than this is a poorly run team where the management team is excluded from critical operational decisions, apparently on a whim?  And that the GM has lost all credibility with both sports writers and the majority of the fan base as a result? 

Edited January 3, 2017 by Jsixspd

[That Aud Smell]

Is he learning or is he just inept... that remains to be seen.

 

I'd suggest that he is most definitely inept at present. And now we wait to see if he can learn (or be  taught), or maybe he stumbles his way into success.

Why did Kim Pegula's own interview contradict Terry Pegula's account of how the Ryan firing went down?  His narrative - it happened during the phone call between he and Rex - she said it was THEIR decision.  

 

Was she also on the call? In the room with Terry? Had they agreed to part ways with Rex before the call?